We are a commune of inquiring, skeptical, politically centrist, capitalist, anglophile, traditionalist New England Yankee humans, humanoids, and animals with many interests beyond and above politics. Each of us has had a high-school education (or GED), but all had ADD so didn't pay attention very well, especially the dogs. Each one of us does "try my best to be just like I am," and none of us enjoys working for others, including for Maggie, from whom we receive neither a nickel nor a dime. Freedom from nags, cranks, government, do-gooders, control-freaks and idiots is all that we ask for.
Our Recent Essays Behind the Front Page
Thursday, April 2. 2020
Not too long ago, I shared my views on Covid-19 and the lockdown. I still stand by my (often misunderstood) position and I feel that after this is over, I'll still stand as having a well-developed viewpoint. Meanwhile, as we sit in the midst of all this, I am now officially 3 weeks working-from-home. The Covid numbers have continued to rise, the deaths have risen as well, and the newsmedia has...ratcheted up the fear factor as high as possible. Even my sister, down in Florida (where even she admits nothing is happening of any note) is freaking out and running scared.
Well, today I chatted by phone with her and shared with her something I'll share with all of you. I am Covid-19 positive. I found out yesterday.
Let me share some of my own personal thoughts and some of my doctors' comments.
First, I was told "this is a high-powered flu". By 3 different doctors who checked me or spoke with me. Second, "No, there's nothing we can do unless you have respiratory distress, so please monitor yourself carefully." Yup. I do that anyway. Third, there were no lines at the station where I got checked. Called first, drove up, got out, they checked me in a field tent, sent me to another field tent, and did the swab (annoying, but not horrible...a Q-Tip WAY UP into your sinuses). Doesn't hurt. You do sneeze a little.
I am in good general health. I work out regularly, good BP, good pulse rate, not an ox by any standard, but I'll keep up with most people my age, and probably surpass them (55+, in case you're wondering).
My first hints of the virus were on Tuesday 3/24. A little coughing, lots of mucous, etc. Not a dry cough. By Thursday, Mrs. Bulldog was saying "You're coughing too much, I don't want people on our walks to think you have it, so stay home." Fine...I stopped taking walks. I had started having headaches (sinus) anyway. The headaches got worse. By Friday, my head was pounding, the cough was persistent, and it was dry. No fever. No rash. 3 days of (sorry) diarrhea began.
Over the weekend, the headaches intensified, the coughing got worse. I was more or less stuck on the couch watching movies, in a very annoyed frame of mind. By Sunday, it was suggested I get tested.
So we arranged it, and yesterday at 3pm the results were back. Positive.
Of course, by now the headache is starting to fade. It's still there, but Tylenol keeps it reduced. The coughing is still there, but laying down helps it stop (don't lay down too much...no need to promote pneumonia). I've been sleeping 10 hours a night. The really weird things, and there are 2 of them, are the general haziness of frame of mind - I can't concentrate very long - and what I'd call "fever dreams without the fever." I don't know how to describe these, but I have the strangest dreams all night. Then I wake up in the morning very dehydrated and have to drink a pint or two of water.
My doctor voiced concern over the number of cases, but also pointed out that "it's just a flu that is worse for at-risk people, you're not at risk. Just stay vigilant, take care of yourself and you should be fine."
So if this were the normal world - I'd take 2-3 weeks off from work, and get better. Instead, I've had 3 weeks off, and based on current protocol I will have AT LEAST (if my symptoms play out normally) 3 more weeks off (because my office says 2 weeks after cessation).
For what it's worth - most people in the US, after 6 weeks off from work, will be broke. If it goes longer, who knows. At this point, the "cure" is worse than the disease. Trump is right to consider opening some counties as soon as possible - like any other pandemic, this has areas of concentration. We can limit exposure to those regions, and keep the rest of the nation working well.
Stay healthy. Stay vigilant. I do believe there is much more, politically, to play out. At this point I no longer believe it's mainly a health crisis (if it ever was). It's a political one.
ps - I had to inform my HR Department - just a public safety thing. Naturally, I got a call back today...all pre-arranged, and about exactly what I supposed. They were trying to determine if I could have caught it anywhere else but at the office. "AVOID LAWSUITS AT ANY COST" must be their view. Can't blame them, I suppose. Not that it would stop me if I was litigious. Thing is, nobody can EVER prove where they got it from. I commute, via train, every day. I went to the bank. I was playing poker one night with 50 people at a bar the week before being sent home (won $650 and the tournament WITH A ROYAL FLUSH - not a joke, totally telling the truth, I have pictures...it's the poker players' Hole-in-One). So I could have gotten it anywhere...and I admitted that. Because it doesn't matter where I got it from. I KNEW I was going to get it. That was the point of my original article. If you believe you can avoid it, you're fooling yourself. I DO NOT believe social distancing works. But don't worry - they politicians and other liars will convince you it's working.
Tracked: Apr 04, 21:20
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Your teenage level irresponsibility got you sick and who knows how many over people...way to go!
Not much to say but hope you get better, soon.
We're all going to be exposed to this bug eventually. The idea that can be avoided is the biggest false hope being promoted.
Best wishes and prayers for a quick recovery, Bulldog.
Way, way before this current crisis, the Maggie's Farm people have emphasized the importance of health and fitness. We need it now.
And so much in agreement about this rapidly becoming a political/financial issue. Thank you.
I'm assuming this is a joke.
I did nothing - literally nothing - irresponsible at all. At no point did I go out of my way to break any rules or laws or guidelines of any kind.
I washed my hands, I was careful - as I pointed out in my original article, AN ABUNDANCE OF CAUTION.
The virus has a 2 week incubation period. Assuming this is the case, I could have gotten it on the train, at the office, at the bank, in the city at a restaurant, or any place PRIOR TO THE LOCKDOWN.
So, assuming you think you're so self-righteous to make a statement like that, remember - YOU WILL GET IT eventually. Or a vaccine will be created soon and you'll get lucky. But that kind of social shaming is pure BS.
Assuming this is a joke, fine. Good laugh. Thanks.
I should add, I have only deleted a few comments here. Only if they were completely abusive or misguided or outright lies.
This comment isn't any of these things. If it's a joke, it's funny.
If it's not a joke, it's instructive regarding the ABUSIVE AND DESTRUCTIVE NATURE of social shaming. People who engage in this should be ashamed of themselves and suffer their own special form of social shaming. People who do this are basically ignorant boobs without any redeeming values of any kind. I am certain other Maggie's fans realize this - and realize that social shaming is just infantile behavior.
Get well soon! I only quibble with the idea that this is just the flu.
SARS‐CoV2 causes epidemic pneumonia characterized by acute respiratory distress.
This novel coronavirus is similar to SARS‐CoV in sequence, pathogenesis, and cellular entry.
Some coronaviruses can invade brainstem via a synapse‐connected route from the lung and airways.
The potential invasion of SARS‐CoV2 may be one reason for the acute respiratory failure.
Awareness of this will have guiding significance for the prevention and treatment.
You'll note I did not say "it's just the flu" here or anywhere. I said the doctor (who has seen far more than I have) told me "it's a high-powered flu".
Which, symptom-wise, is what most of us who have it are experiencing.
Thank you. Those are my thoughts exactly. It's easy for those who have enough money to ride this out to tell the rest to wait it out. As you said, most people, those who aren't already broke, will be broke quickly. Lots of people will lose their homes, their cars, health insurance, they'll be short of food because they have no plan B, they will never recover. That will be pretty much everyone in the bottom 50% tax bracket and millions more higher up the food chain. The lucky ones who chose to work at Home Depot or Lowes, Walmart and CVS will be okay, those who chose to be waiters, department store clerks, barmaids, and tattoo artists are just SOL. There is not enough money in the world to make this right.
Sorry to hear you are positive for Covid-19.
I would respectively disagree that this is not a health crisis. I think that everyone should revisit their opinion about that in two weeks. The numbers then will staggering and still going up. This is going to be bad. I honestly believe that those at the top, those in the know are terrified about what they expect from this before it's done.
Stay strong, wish you and everyone well.
Wishing you the best. Sounds like you lucked out and got the mild version. Let's hope you'll be a dead end!
Luck may be a good way to view it.
I consider the fact that 90% or more have the mild version to be standard.
Luck (good or bad or otherwise) would come into play if I get a worse version.
But thanks for the well-wishes. I am trying to do everything right. Was before, too, though...
It's no joke.
Your own comments CLEARLY demonstrate that you took a cavalier approach (probably because you assume that because you're are healthy, you'll be fine).
Sorry, but you're a double dumb ass. The first time for your cavalier attitude and the second for not recognizing the impression you have given of ignoring the risks.
What concerns me the most about all of this is the fact that there is no timeline for recovery. As more time goes by, the government will be under increasing pressure to start issuing a support check to every single person, on a monthly basis.
There has been no real discussion of who is dying from this virus. It's almost exclusively old people, who would have died of old age anyway. And now they're talking about testing all the people in nursing homes. Some readers might say that it's crass to discuss the age of the victims, but it's not. Virus deaths are being attributed to people who were already dying.
So the number of legitimate virus deaths might be exaggerated
by as much as 80%. It's normal for an 80 year old person to die; old people do that a lot.
So if we only count the "legitimate victims" we get a much different picture: Almost all the people who have died are above the age of sixty. If you're younger than that, there is almost no danger. And there's really no reason to stay home.
And what's even more surprising is that all research questions related to age and coronavirus have been banned from Google.
"How many old people have died from the Virus?" No returns.
So it's pretty clear that this "virus" is being misrepresented. They won't call it the "Geriatric Virus" which is what it really is. Instead, they're hiding key data, so that they can shut-down the entire country. That way, old people will continue to get free medical care, and suppliers to the government will make a fortune because people with a government contract, by law, cannot be charged with price gouging. So all the food, medicine, fuel, clothing, and everything else that society needs will be sold to the government, at four times the regular price. And there's nothing that we can do about it. The Mob is now running the country.
Here's to a quick (and as painless as possible)
recovery and many more years of posting!
Hope you are feeling much better Bulldog.
Question: Did you get a sore throat with this? What about a runny nose?
I don't see where you did anything wrong. A man has to live his life. There are risks just getting out of bed in the morning. Can't live your life in abject fear, curled up in a fetal position.
Wishing you a speed recovery to good health, Bulldog.
I consider you lucky. You got what appears to be a mild form, and early in the process! You are now immune, at least in theory, and don't have to worry about it. Enjoy!
I hope Mrs. Bulldog stays well, or at least is lucky enough to get the mild form as well.
Hope you have a quick and easy recovery. On the bright side you are soon to be part of the herd. We need more like you.
Speedy recovery, Bulldog! I met you on one of the NYC walks a few years ago, and I know you are stronger than this bug. Best of luck to you chum.
Best wishes for a speedy and complete recovery, Bulldog. My wife and I met you on the 2017 urban hike. That's the only one we've been on so far. We look forward to more urban hikes after this passes.
You did nothing wrong. The commenters who suggest as much are jerks. No amount of precaution gives complete protection. There is much randomness in the world.
It is easy in hindsight to say "you should have done this differently". But anyone that followed the guidelines of what was recommended at the time shouldn't be second-guessed. i flew to Montana in early March to go skiing, and thought I was being over-cautious because I wiped down my seat and tray table. A month later, I can't believe I took such a risk! Hopefully your fitness level and general overall good health will see you thru this thing successfully. Best of luck to you and your family.
Correct. The people still claiming "it's just a flu" or "it's no worse than a bad cold" are irresponsible idiots with no idea about mathematics or medicine.
get another doctor. this bug is serious stuff.
get on the hydroxychoroquine-azithromycin-zinc meds now.
it will mitigate this bad bug, really.
A densely packed urban environment is more risky. My cousin in SoHo gets more colds than I do because she is exposed to more people and more bugs. Ditto the CCCP flu. Hope you have a quick recovery.
Well said. Wishing you a speedy recovery, Bulldog! Trolls, gtfo
I think the economic damage is real, but is overestimated even more than C19. No one is going to starve. That takes a long time. We had a Great Depression, which occurred worldwide and lasted years. At the beginning of it, at the end of the Roaring 20s and great prosperity, almost half of the US was already below what we would now define as the poverty line of its time. We have had recessions since then, and yes, some people's careers lagged after that, even decades later. I graduated into the Recession 1975 and have seen the numbers that my class did much worse than those two years earlier and later. Yet we did not starve, and people still went on to build careers. This idea that people will never recover doesn't square with anything in our history. Hell, Germany and Japan recovered after a lot more destruction than we saw.
Could you describe headache as like being unable to stop thinking, like bringing on weird dreams in sleep? I had that about 6 weeks ago over the weekend. Assumed it was kidney stone coupled with bad cold.
Now for last 4 weeks just a lingering cough. Obviously not meeting the other descriptions Thankfully.
Be Well. Scribe on.
I hope your recovery is swift and your wife is spared the severe symptoms. I largely agree with your opinion, but since I can't do much about it, I try to resign myself.
Bulldog, get well soon! Prayers for your swift recovery from out west in SoDak! Sorry for the rude commentary here by others. Stay home and wash yo’ hands! cheers, chuck
How about if they get more serious about shutting things down? Truckers running long hours to keep things delivered, eventually they will get run down, is there people to take their place? Does it reach a point that they turn off the cable for non payment and now people are no longer lulled by entertainment? Store shelves that don't satisfy? Delivery systems (utilities, energy, basic needs) fail over time and the few "just in time" people we've been staffing with are not enough to restore?
I hope not either, but I'd guess 2 weeks from now is going to be different. Maybe not for the better.
The economic damage, much like this pandemic, will be overestimated for some, and horribly underestimated for others. If some are of the opinion that people did not starve during the depression then perhaps you ignore events like Holodomor where people most certainly did starve.
There will always be a disparity of outcomes in good times and bad because interesting times are comprised of both calamity and opportunity. Just happens to go more one way or t’e other accordingly.
We’ll know, well, many of us will know, what the real costs will be and for whom only after the fact.
But right now it’s obvious for some in different parts of the world that this is both a medical* nightmare and a man caused geopolitical macro economic merde matinee that will lead many on the on back end of broken just-in-time supply lines into starvation.
* at best, it’s looking more and more like an industrial accident with an attempted command and control cover up than a natural development
I agree with everything in your post.
A majority of people will get it. The goal for our government and my employer is to avoid everyone getting it at the same time. I think most people should be living their lives as normal and people most at risk should reduce their risk to exposure as much as possible. We shouldn't stop the country to avoid what MIGHT equate to a very bad flu year.
Dear Bull Dog. I seldom agree with you, however, like you I am getting that twitchy feeling. The feeling I get when I am being asked to accept coincidence as an explanation. I hate coincidences. I do believe the corona virus was an accident in Wuhan. I believe it travelled to Italy and Spain and Seattle by accident. However, that's about when I start to get the feeling that somehow the boat is shifting under my feet just a little. My sense is that once it hit Seattle the feminist power leaders (liberal)and the unions, and the shamed aircraft company, and ??? began to see a way to use this event to bring about the "GREAT CHANGE" they have been striving for for 30 years. I think there are those people who see this as a moment of opportunity that they will seize and try to use to finish off this democracy. They didn't create this perturbation, but by Gosh they will use it to every advantage for every political goal they can.
You say, "I DO NOT believe social distancing works," but you weren't social distancing were you. Now you have the virus and are social distancing. If it doesn't work why bother?
Sorry you are not well. I continue to be amazed at the attitudes of all the closet bullies who use their alleged scientific knowledge to denigrate everyone around them who is not running scared and running headlong over the cliffs like a lemming. I suspect they see the virus as an affirmation of their secret neuroses.
Hey Bulldog, sorry to hear you caught the dreaded covid-19, but look at the positives, you'll be in a better position to handle whatever comes next in the pipeline of viruses. Glad you are dealing with it at home. Feel better and keep us updated on how it is going for you. Wishing you well from here in the Poconos.
The odds are in your favor, and it's sounding great so far. That means it's also extremely likely you'll be in a position to donate serum, if you like.
Keep us posted!
Another data point for the adage that royal flushes bring bad luck. Get well soon.
Something that seems to be missed by a lot of people, including the press, is that there is something of a paradox at work. In order to remove the danger, the virus has to spread. The goal of social distancing is not to reduce or eliminate the total number of cases. It is to slow the rate of spread such that fewer people require the greatest care at any one time.
The chances of ending the epidemic through isolation probably ended in early February, back when everybody was relying on the now known to be faulty data from the Chinese government.
I’m with you 100% - I think China does do bio research for offensive reasons; there was some lapse and specimen(s) were released and the virus spread through normal travel patterns; the radicals all over are absolutely nimble and vile enough to use any disturbance in the “force” to their advantage and they have. It’s past time to speak without euphemism about how it’s being used and to stop helping them achieve their objectives. Seattle and Portland and VT are the most explicit but they all mean it.
"There has been no real discussion of who is dying from this virus. It's almost exclusively old people, who would have died of old age anyway."
Ron, PULL YOUR HEAD OUT OF YOUR AS$.
According to the CDC, 40% of those hospitalized with COVID-19 are between the ages of 20 and 54 and 20% of the deaths are in people younger than 65. The data that we have thus far indicates that "young" people are not immune to the disease and that death in this population is not as rare as you indicate. It's myths that are perpetuated by numbskulls like you that lead to a cavalier attitude among young people who then ignore the advice regarding social distancing. The higher than originally advertised rates of clinical infection among young people is not only bad for their health, but by increasing the number of infectious contacts, it is also bad for the health of older people.
"The goal for our government and my employer is to avoid everyone getting it at the same time. I think most people should be living their lives as normal and people most at risk should reduce their risk to exposure as much as possible"
.Jack - Obviously, you're not too bright, but at least make an effort to be consistent in the same paragraph. Reducing one's exposure as much as possible (by social distancing) is NOT living your life "as normal." If people live their lives as normal, the curve will not be flattened (I would try to explain this to you, but because I cannot understand it for you, I'll give that a pass).
"The goal for our government and my employer is to avoid everyone getting it at the same time. I think most people should be living their lives as normal and people most at risk should reduce their risk to exposure as much as possible"
.Jack - Obviously, you're not too swift, but at least make an effort to be consistent in the same paragraph. Reducing one's exposure as much as possible (by social distancing) is NOT living your life "as normal." If people live their lives as normal, the curve will not be flattened (I would try to explain this to you, but because I cannot understand it for you).
Sure hope you don’t drop dead in a few weeks from an ARDS/cardiac event.
I’ve seen various mortality estimates for this flu season but most seem to be in the 20,000-30,000 range. Pretty typical, from what I understand.
Coronavirus has a ways to go to surpass the flu.
And meanwhile we purposely torched trillions of dollars in the markets, put millions of people out of work and all of those people plus millions more into a state of depression, derailed a functioning and healthy economy, put everyone into a panic based on bullshit guesses we generously call “models”, and last but not least, allowed the government to start groomimg us to accept total control over our lives “for our own good”.
This trade was not worth it, by a long shot.
Wishing you a speedy recovery.
I also largely agree with you. The response to this virus has become non-falsifiable. If this turns out to be a non-event (NYC is having a problem so we'll be reading and hearing about this for decades, as they are the most important people in the entire world) we will be told that we were saved by the heroes of the media.
If this turns out to be a horrible event scolds like mike m will blame you, me and others of similar outlook for not taking this seriously enough. There will be entries made in our permanent records.
You'll not win any arguments with your incessant name-calling and belittling of other commenters.
It's too bad there's not a Block function in the Comments section here, as you would be promptly subjected to it.
And you sir are not swift enough to make a single word change in your snide remark without a duplicating the post. Almost like a flawed "bot".
Except HE GOT IT and YOU DIDN'T and it DID play out like the flu for a not-already-frail person. HIM.
Do the math. It actually isn't very difficult. The deaths double every 3-4 days. We are very early in this illness and indeed our deaths over the last two weeks or so does not equal, yet, a full year of the flu. But in two more weeks it will surpass it. Please entertain us then with your wisdom about how this is nothing and we should just act like it's nothing.
Just adding my name to the list of people who are hoping and praying your case is among the 95% of cases that are mild.
I'm taking yours as a cautionary tale but at the same time, I'm continuing to hold onto some skepticism about the need for the draconian measures we're taking. That skepticism has been growing.
Best wishes to you and Mrs. Bulldog. Please keep us updated.
I suspect lower case mike has a a regular paycheck coming in during his sequestration, unlike Wanda the waitress who won't be able to make the rent this month, much less buy groceries. It has been reliably reported that the average person has a better than 99 percent chance of recovery from the Wuhan Flu, but what are the chances that his job still be there when he is well?
Here is a post that may shed some light on this issue:
As far as I'm concerned, social distancing and shutting down the economy are tactics that might have worked at the very beginning but are far too late now. People who shut themselves indoors and avoid all contact are merely setting themselves up for infection later, because this thing is not going away. I believe it's been hyped beyond reason for whatever reason (if it bleeds it leads, or we gotta get the orangemanbad, whatever), and the overreaction is causing more disruption and pain than was necessary. Unless you're in the very vulnerable range (over 70 with underlying medical problems), it's better to risk daily life and gain immunity. Good luck with your prognosis, bulldog, and thanks for the common sense. That's in short supply these days.
Quoting from above "My doctor voiced concern over the number of cases, but also pointed out that "it's just a flu that is worse for at-risk people...". So HughDePayens is correct to quibble with with the idea that "this is just the flu."
The virus is a godsend for the media desperate for ad revenue and Trump removal. Combine pretend journalists with pretend climate/medical modelers and you have the perfect storm of danger, danger, danger. Just like Russia, Russia, Russia....or Ukraine, Ukraine, Ukraine. The pot MUST be stirred.
My surgery department chairman used to call this Myshkin's Law (after Prince Lev Nikolayevich Myshkin, the protagonist of Dostoyevsky's "The Idiot"): "My single anecdotal experience is more reliable than ten double blinded, controlled studies."
You IGNORE all of the evidence to the contrary and base your statement on the single anecdotal experience (which is not even complete) of Mr. Bull$h1t - oops, I mean Mr Bulldog.
To "borrow" from Barry Goldwater:
Extremism in the defense of truth is no vice. And moderation in the pursuit of logic is no virtue.
I don't really care what quotes you want to poach to justify your behavior, but it doesn't change the fact that you're a complete asshole.
You really should just sod off and take your anger and bile elsewhere.
It’s not just about math — it’s about all the assumptions that everyone like you, who thinks it’s just about math, accepts blindly.
Like, “yes it’s definitely worth putting 10,000,000 people out of work in two weeks to save x number of lives”.
Do the math on that one, and show your work.
" I think that everyone should revisit their opinion about that in two weeks."
We've been visiting our opinion every two weeks for 10 weeks now in Washington state. The numbers are nowhere near what they predicted.
But, yes. Keep running around with your hair on fire hoping for the worst.
Dear Little Stevie - "You'll not win any arguments with your incessant name-calling and belittling of other commenters."
PS - Your mom says, "Hi"
As Ed McMahon (Johnny Carson's sidekick) used to say, "You are correct, Sir." After the 2008/9 financial crisis, I read Nicholas Nassim Taleb's books, Fooled by randomness and The Black Swan, and made sure I had enough cash and ammo to ride out a long storm. I also bought what might be called a "gentleman's farm" - all the cash in the world won't help if nobody's willing to sell you food. I've been supplying my neighbors and a local children's home with food for several weeks now and have been germinating seeds inside getting ready for planting season.
You're probably correct. Indeed, Neil Ferguson, who originated the prediction of 2.5M deaths based on data that turned out to be incorrect, recently changed his tune.
But here's the rub....
As Taleb pointed out, rare catastrophic events are not so rare, i.e. the tails of the distribution curves are fatter than our models assume. While the coronavirus may or may not be as catastrophic as many predict, there's still some unexpected event out there that will be catastrophic - like a new financial crisis that will take many more lives than people assume (because they cannot envision a world where the problem is not that the goods and services they depend on are very expensive, but that they are simply unavailable).
@ faculty wife, post#25 - re your thoughts about our self-anointed's "GREAT CHANGE" push - I agree, and your post can be categorized as a "Yes" response to three important test questions: Occam's Razor; Human Nature, & Cloward-Piven...
Occam's Razor - does your description of the progressives reaction to COVID fit the "simplest explanation" requirement? YES -
Human Nature - same question, when applied to progressives? YES -
Cloward-Piven - can the current overload/destruction of societal resources needed to overcome this crisis be described as a C-P event? HELL YES.
Lots of really smart people here on Maggies Farm, one of the reasons why this is my usual first stop when I go online to get my info fix. To all of you reading this - I hope you've also been smart enough to be prepared to exercise your 2A rights.
@mike, #22.214.171.124 -
"...there's still some unexpected event... that will be catastrophic - like a new financial crisis..."
Cloward-Piven, anyone? Maybe the next event is not so "unexpected", eh?
(oops, there goes my little conspiracy-theory voice again...)
I was talking about name-calling at other "commenters," bonehead.
Not trolls, which are fair game.
It's clear which clan you belong to.
Hopefully Bulldog decides to clean up this thread at some point.
By the way, Ma's been dead for over 20 years, so if you're talking to her, that must mean you're dead too.
Your point is well taken and I think the leftist media (along with George Soros) would gladly see a majority of the USA suffer the economic consequences (that they themselves will largely or entirely avoid) if it means Trump loses the 2020 election. Indeed, one can posit that the media not only anticipated the economic fallout, but that they have seized upon or even planned on and participated in the panic and ensuing crisis. NOTE: TDS is real and it's evil.
However, that does not discount the notion that for the majority of Americans, the economic and financial impact of the pan(ic)demic is a black swan, i.e. an unexpected catastrophic event.
I sometimes wonder if I had it earlier this year. I went to California, LA, spent a crazy amount of time in LAX. This was after it was going nuts in Wuhan.
Came home and about a week or two later got sick.
And it was odd:. It was either a REALLY bad cold or not terribly awful flu (and I've actually had flu: There was a commercial for an OTC flu med that sums it pretty well. They have a video of a rain shower and a voice over says, "This is a cold." And the visual switches to Hurricane Camille and the VO says, "And this is the flu." I couldn't walk, I couldn't eat, I ached unbelievably badly.)
When I got sick earlier, it wasn't quit as bad as the flu I just described. But I was pretty sick. I spent four days in bed, and I had a cough that too forever to get over. And it was NOT productive cough.
I live on a farm and don't play poker or commute on a train. No, the probability is I WON'T get "it"."I commute, via train, every day. I went to the bank. I was playing poker one night with 50 people at a bar the week before being sent home"
You need to IMMEDIATELY post in big letters that if you have symptoms or are tested positive that you immediately procure the malaria cocktail from your doctor!
Even if you have to threaten to sue the dumb bunny people can be spared by using this treatment.
It only costs $25.00.
Hear, hear. A vaccine or having roughly half the population survive it is the only way we get to herd immunity. We can buy some short time for vaccines or better drugs, but once the infrastructure starts to crack, Covid deaths will be a rounding error.
I have read Maggie's for quite a number of years and read the comments from time to time. Never have I seen anything like the comments found here. Covid 19 is not to be ignored but it is not the end of the world either. A number of countries are managing to go to work AND reduce numbers. How? They wash their hands often, they wear masks, they disinfect public spaces (mass transit - hello NY), they test, identify, isolate, they have some drugs, HCQ, anti-virals and Vitamin C. No silver bullet. Layers of behaviors that work. Everybody, snap out of this media driven panic and get this country back to work.
Agreed. I take the virus very seriously, but it's dangerous for a small percentage of people, while we know pretty well what mitigating procedures can dramatically reduce the odds of trouble. We need to be balancing the harms better.
I agree with the poster--this is a serious illness, but not the end of the world. I am 62 and in good health. Husband is 77, survived lung cancer, has stage 4 copd and is at heightened risk for anything. He gets pneumonia just because he's still alive fairly often. We have practiced safe distancing for years now as well as home sanitizing, etc. Just prudent, I think. Went for a drive and dropped off a birthday present for the granddaughter, didn't get out of the car, son lifted it out of the trunk and we spoke from 10' apart. You wouldn't believe how we've been blasted by people for being so unsafe! We put the world at risk! So, reasonable people like us are pillaried but buffoons like DeBlasio and Cuomo are heralded as heroes. So, who's the idiot here? Hint: not us.
What's with the suuuuuupppppeeerrrr wiiiiiiiide line length on this site? It's PAINFUL to read across this page width. Please make a more narrow field for your text.
So you prove that social distancing and masks DON'T work... by going out on the town to bars and poker parties, and catching it. Interesting thesis.
As a control, I have helped set up the 75 people at my office to ALL work from home, and we've all been going to the extreme trouble of hunkering down. And NONE of us have gotten the virus after 3 weeks plus.
I finally had to go out to the store for some supplies, and found a whole bunch of people laughing, coughing like it's a joke, making everybody's efforts a lot less effective, and possibly infecting me, since masks and gloves aren't 100% reliable.
It must be that people like you are just too cool to be a part of the effort (at least) to slow the infection down so that treatment and prevention methods can be built to properly combat the pandemic. I get that you think "old" people are going to die anyway, and probably don't have any nasty non-cool friends over 60, but some of us think we might live to be 85 or 90. It happens. Look it up.
Your attitude is that of the bug-chaser. You think you're invulnerable, and you wish you weren't. Well, you're not. Soon, you'll be over 60 and will "die any way," but in the meantime, you have proven that you are selfish and not truly part of a society. You are just a solipsist individual going along for the ride.
I agree with your former Surgery Dept chair. Why don’t you supply us with the “gold standard” studies showing that workplace closures prevent the spread of respiratory viruses?
Or I could save you the trouble; they don’t exist. Like our current dilemma, they are all based on models. Where studies do exist, they are inconclusive or ignore all kinds of confounding factors.
So while you’re at it, why don’t you throw some shade at the government who is in the process of destroying the economy based on a bunch of anecdotes.
No, a vaccine is not the only way to achieve herd immunity. It's just the more technological approach to it - so everyone thinks it must be the only right way to do it.
While unregulated/let's-just-do-it "virus parties" could get ugly, intelligently handled spread of the virus would definitely confer herd immunity. And, as production of the fairly inexpensive and effective drug regimen gears up, all the people who got the virus via a "party" could be easily treated.
those who chose to be ... barmaids, and tattoo artists are just SOL
Nah. They'll just run for Congress.
Prayers for a speedy recovery. (That goes for everyone getting it.)
I too had the virus, in the middle of February when it was still a little unknown and no tests were available. I have tested positive for antibodies that is how I know I was sick, and your description of the illness, bulldog, it exactly right. It wasn't too bad. Headache, cough fever...I work in a DDS office and took off 11 days, stayed in bed and went back to work before the ADA closed all offices until April 27. I would like to get back to work this week and get things back to normal, hopefully POTUS get's that going. I think you're right, we are all going to get this virus at sometime, and we will have the same amount of deaths we would if none if this madness "stay at home" crap was never implemented. Just my opinion.
To all the pearl clutching, world is ending, we all must give up living to avoid dying, if it saves the life of one sea turtle it's all worth it, shame on you bulldog posters; I just looked out the window and by golly, the sky is still up there!
"I DO NOT believe social distancing works." It's not 100%, but what is?
Social distancing would've prevented these 3 cases where there was close, extended contact.
Mt. Vernon, WA: "A choir decided to go ahead with rehearsal. Now dozens of members have COVID-19 and two are dead." https://www.latimes.com/world-nation/story/2020-03-29/coronavirus-choir-outbreak
Albany, GA: "Days After a Funeral in a Georgia Town, Coronavirus ‘Hit Like a Bomb’ https://www.nytimes.com/2020/03/30/us/coronavirus-funeral-albany-georgia.html
(not a religious gathering) Westport, CT: "Party Zero: How a Soirée in Connecticut Became a ‘Super Spreader’" https://www.nytimes.com/2020/03/23/us/coronavirus-westport-connecticut-party-zero.html