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Tuesday, March 13. 2018
If you work for Trump, do not expect to be treated in a civil manner.
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He calls his boss a moron and yet he is a better man? doubt it somehow.
"Meanwhile, I’m skeptical of the reporting this morning about how Tillerson found out about his sacking from a Trump tweet rather than directly. I don’t doubt that this is true, but it is also being reported that Trump asked for Tillerson’s resignation on Friday. If that is true, I have a hunch that the news was about to leak out this morning, so Trump and his folks decided to pull the trigger right away. But that’s not how the hair-on-fire media is going to represent the story." From Steve Hayward over at Powerline. Could be they need a fire extinguisher over at Maggie's?
You can find an article that points out that Tillerson was informed last week by Kelly that he was going to get fired. Don't fall for the never-trumper media spewing their usual click bait.
I've called my bosses morons at industry events, particularly when they are lunkheads. It's possible to do that and be the better person.
My last boss? An idiot of the highest order. Rich? Sure, he's made a fortune because he's the son of an industry stalwart. But he drove the company to bankruptcy because he refused to listen to his team. He knew more - they didn't. Let's not discuss his moral failings, 2 wives, the first one he set up during the process of divorce to get her deported so she can never see her kid again, the second in the process of divorcing him. His anger at having his salary cut from $500k to $450k (public record, plus he called me in to complain about it) the same day 200 people were fired. Oh yeah, they made up the $50k with stock options. Oh yeah, when he had to fire 5 people, he stayed late at lunch and called HR and had me do it.
A moron? Damn right I called him one - early in my tenure there, during the firings. And I am the better person.
I found this:
The AP quoted two unnamed senior department officials as saying Tillerson “received a call from John Kelly, Trump’s chief of staff, on Friday, but was only told that there might be a presidential tweet that would concern him. Kelly didn’t tell Tillerson what the tweet might say or when it might actually publish.” In public remarks Tuesday, Trump said he’d been considering replacing Tillerson for some time, but made the final decision recently, and “by myself.”
There's all the world of difference being warned 'you may be fired soon' and then finding out you actually were fired via a Tweet.
I've known of my imminent demise at a previous employer, but when the day came at least it was handled well. I'd received a call from a friend in the company telling me "you know your name came up in layoff discussions, just thought you should know they are coming in the next few weeks."
3 weeks later, it happened.
At least I didn't find out via social media.
Yes, Trump picked him, and probably expected Tillerson to be a team player - which he was not. If you go into a job like that with your own agenda and get unceremoniously shit-canned, don't expect condolences.
Well you got us there, Bulldog. Nothing is more credible than AP quoting unnamed sources. Two of them at that!
Call him what you will...he has the right to fire you and as for the better man...says you.
You put all that specific information out there, on the internet, where it would take the /chan autists an afternoon to identify you, find out where you live, access your criminal records, credit records, employment history, etc., but, but it's your boss who is the moron and lunkhead.
Have another drink.
I really hope that Trump didn't tweet and then place a call a couple of hours later as some outlets have reported. That is just too despicable, creepy even.
I can't imagine what Tillerson could have done to justify such a bizarre and public dismissal.
I hope by now that Bulldog has found out that Tillerson was asked for and tendered his resignation on Friday. The Tillerson aide that leaked the "fired by a tweet" story has been fired.
Trump's job is NOT to treat his cabinet members in a civil manner. His job is to serge as chief executive of the federal government and Commander in Chief of the armed forces. In the end, history won't judge his civility to his staff (they are big boys and knew this was part of the job). He will be judged on how well he runs the country which, in large part, means how the economy does, and on how safe he keeps the country.
Vince Lombardi wasn't known for treating his players in a "civil" manner - quite the opposite.....and his players took pride in it. He was - and still is - known for winning championships (which is different than winning games).
What I put out there would:
a. be no different than anything I said publicly, and to his face, so whether or not other people share it is of little consequence to me.
b. still be 100% true
c. has nothing to do with whether he could or couldn't fire me - I never said anything about that. Fact is, I said it to his face and he kept me for 2 more years because he was too stupid to do his job effectively. When he replaced me (due to the company failing), he hired a young kid on 100% commission who quit after 4 months because the place was a disaster.
d. of absolutely no interest to the /chan people because this idiot is of little consequence today.
So say what you will, but while anyone can reply "says you" - everyone I know who know him agrees with my analysis, my response, and everything I wrote here.
As one friend said to me recently "we all have had our challenging relationships throughout our careers, most of us haven't chosen to speak as honestly as you."
I've been trying to find that, to no avail. So if YOU have it, I'd love to see it. What I do know is that Steve Goldstein, a State Department spokesperson (who did not leak that Tillerson found out via tweet) stated only that Tillerson hadn't spoken with Trump and intended on staying in the job.
He, for some strange reason, replaced another spokesperson who had speculated that Trump was planning to replace Tillerson with Haley.
You know it IS POSSIBLE to appreciate the accomplishments of Trump without having to like him, right? As far as I'm concerned, he's light years ahead of his predecessor. But that doesn't mean he's a good president nor is he a good person.
As I've said before, I happen to know people who have worked for him and have no love for him personally. Their experiences were not good. That said, they voted for him. I can't explain their choices, but they would echo my statements.
We have all worked for assholes in our lives. Some are effective, others less so. One doesn't make judgements regarding effectiveness based purely on personality traits.
Emotional incontinence becomes no man.
But I've been in your place. I do understand.
"d. of absolutely no interest to the /chan people because this idiot is of little consequence today."
Don't think about this in terms of your ex-boss.
Think about it as it relates to you.
Were the roles reversed, I doubt Tillerson would have thought twice to notify Trump ahead of his being canned.
Nothing happened which indicts me in any way. Plenty happened with him. He didn't care about the other people in the organization, all he cared about was his pay packet.
If people think less of me because I happen to tell them what actually happened, and the behaviors of certain people in those situations were reprehensible, I can live with that.
Someone may always say "that's just your version of events." No. Those are the events. There is no other version except for a lie. This wasn't a 'perception' issue. I'm perfectly comfortable replaying history for others. Learning from their mistakes is important.
It's not emotional incontinence.
I'd prefer to see people know what this guy is so they don't have to go through it and learn for themselves. And for people who never have to deal with him, you may ask "Who cares?" Well, everyone should. Learning from his poor behavior and decision-making helps reduce its recurrence.
If it's by twitter, you find out right away.
The insult to avoid is having the guy escorted out from the premises.
Tillerson's on the job until the end of the month, quite the opposite.
Bulldog, I'm not sure how you've decided Tillerson is himself such a great guy. Maybe you know him.
I'm sure he has some ability, he wouldn't have risen to the position of CEO at ExxonMobile otherwise. But it could be remarkable ability at bullshitting and backstabbing. I don't know. As SecState, he did not appear to be any great friend of Israel, and that was pretty troubling to me.
Trump's presidency is one of the few things that stand between us and complete destruction of the country. We would not have survived a Hillary term and remained recognizable as the United States. Trump hurt this guy's feelings? Wow that's really not very important. Not worth criticizing him over. Not worth weakening Trump's position, even a little tiny bit.
Good Lord. Let's not conflate the two issues. One is HOW and the other is WHY. Nobody questions Trump's right to fire and replace Tillerson; it is the cheezy way it was done. And yeah we get it; decent honorable guys, such as Romney, finish last.
Everything by comparison. Hillary hired Chris Stevens. Trump hired Tillerson. Tillerson was fired. Let’s ask Stevens his opinion on he was removed from office and maltreated by his boss.
Lot of wannabe tough guys parading around. Trump is the biggest one. You fire guys face to face period. This is part of investing in allies not just common courtesy. Wannbe tough guys are always the first to head for the hills when it's hard. if you look at Trump's history he doesn't have many long term partners or allies.
I guess no one here has heard the saying "There are 3 sides to every story. Yours, his/hers, and the truth." In politics its more like "There are 57 sides to every story. Yours, theirs, the MSM, the leftist MSM, the left-leftist MSM, the gay mulatto's, some Hollywood douchebag,......., and the janitor's." As varied as present day genders.
I was walked out the door last April after working 15 years as a Senior IT employee. A year from being vested. Like the hundreds I have seen walked out before. Who speaks for them?
I didn’t say he was a great guy. Show me where I said that. I simply said you can call your boss a moron (or any other slight), and still be the better person.
Firing is done face-to-face. I’ve had to do it, and I’ve had it done to me. It is just proper. The method is flawed. I do know someone else Trump fired. It’s not my story to tell, but it was similarly classless. That fellow was bitter over it for years, but still voted for Trump.
I don’t judge people solely on personality. I have worked for idiots before, but they knew how to get things done. I can respect that. My commentary about Tillerson being the better person is that he has comported himself well, and even in this moment, he has handled it all with great class and composure. That, in itself, is respectable.
I have to disagree that Trump treated Tillerson badly. In general, he has been reasonable with most of the people he has let go - saying nice things about them, wishing them well in future opportunities.
We don't know just how badly Tillerson screwed up (however, calling your boss a moron - not in a private meeting, but with witnesses, is not smart), but I'd bet that he defied Trump rather strongly, assuming that his job was either safe, or he could talk his way out of the firing.
Speaking the truth and being willing to live with the consequences is what makes someone a grownup. I'm with you. You make society a better place by shouldering your own burdens and taking your own risks. That it doesn't tend to make you a clever gamesman who "gets" things out of people by manipulating both them and the truth is even more to your credit.
Like nearly everyone, I hope, I want a chief executive who is decisive, which includes a willingness to fire people. Nevertheless, I can't imagine what would prevent an executive from having the stones to fire someone in person.
I still take Bulldog's position, that you can believe the President's victory over Clinton was a tremendous stroke of good fortune for the country, without believing he's an honorable man, and without believing we'd be even better off if the President had more strength of character is some areas. Strength of character should never be confused with weakness.