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Friday, May 16. 2008
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Just now discovering gun broker? It's fun -- and dangerous. I spent way too much money on that site before I swore off.
The prices are getting reedickluss. $2,500 for beater Savage 99s, that sort of thing. Though it can be handy for parts and sights and stuff like that.
I am holding out for one of the quarterly gun shows here in town. That way no paper trail need be, and the stack of bills traded is much smaller for the same used gear.
You'd better get'em while you can.
How many doubt the Democrats will put so many restrictions on gun ownership that to have a gun and ammo in the same house will be illegal?
That to own a rifle with a scope will be illegal?
Some of you who don't care should because an armed citizenry is THE ONLY thing between freedom and totalitarianism...yes even here. Governments are dangerous. They eventually become black holes where all rights are suffocated by the darkness. Every Founding Father new this. History proves this.
Get a gun and learn to use it and if we have another Lexington and Concord so be it, the people will be ready, you will be ready.. and read this blog daily and practice the techniques and instructions. Instead of beinga victim you can be ready to prevail.
I can with a very high degree of certitude tell you that bad things are coming. Why? How? Because of people like me. I will not surrender the Bill of Rights to a new interpretation, nor will I line up to give my guns to the government because they pass a law. A thorough reading of the Declaration of Independence might stiffen the weakest, but Thomas Paines' Common Sense was said by Washington to be THE most influential document written during that time..read it and learn about freedom and how it is usurped by the powers that be no matter what form of government.
Well BD the good news is you won't have to wait long for it to get here.
We have a nice core of well trained civilians, such as Blackwater, Vennell Corp. , the Olive group, who will not brook the socialism or government outlawing of the right to protect themselves, not to mention exersizing a lifestyle they embrace, freedom.
This of course leaves out having a Muslim President and fully divide population the likes of which we have not seen since the civil war. How long do you think the majority will allow Obama's 14% to wag the dog?
Your levity is admirable but the situation upon us heralds more than easy platitudes to solve and it would appear that Obama et. al. will get the best closed eyed vetting our pravada paper's can provide us with.
All you have to do is wait another three years or so. Then we'll see where the war is.
War getting here ain't good news.
Do your revolution at the ballot box, the American way.
Revolutionary defeatism yall express
is Leninist crap.
Well done, boo.
This is a good read.
Worse is worse and those who will it thinking it is good news for personnal revolution will be most disappointed.
Rightest who vote against the right are Abby Hoffman dopplegangers with chaos on their minds.
Most curious and diabolically insidious they are
But they protest to much, me thinks, and that protest reveals them for the better.
America has a peaceful remedy for wrongs every four years, and every two years when it comes to Congress, free elections, aka, the American ballot box.
Imagining in the fiuture "a long train of abuses and usurpations, pursuing invariably the same object evinces a design to reduce them under absolute despotism" is only laughable.
American Revolution was about real abuses long suffered and not imagined by over amped rubes like our incindiary viper and fellow poster.
you should have more faith in the art of that poster. he strikes a pose, and that pose fixes the mind on the issue -- as it has yours, which then resulted in your thinking thru the principle and reducing it to the essentials in order to write the persuasive comment just above.
I'm gonna need some help from you guys in the future, because I want to get a pistol, a shotgun and an M14. I don't have much knowlege concerning firearms, but I figure with such a bleak future on the horizon I better learn quick. I know that most of you are well versed concerning the law and best firearms for the money. Money is a concern since I don't have much of it. Any help would be appreciated.
Unfortunately it takes money to have a diverse arsenal, however that doesn't mean you have to buy it all at one, but I would not hesitate in beginning. The last time the Democrats began tightening gun laws they really didn't know what they were doing but it didn't slow them down.
You're not going to need an M-14 right away. I would buy a AK-47 with a thousand rounds of ammo. It is the most prolifically produced weapon in the world and practically indestructible. It's not terribly accurate at long distances but it will get the job done. Shop the gun sales.
Buy a minimum of ten 30 round clips and then practice learning the weapon. There are dvd's on the care and feeding of most all weapons.
Here are a few oufits I have used.
As Skookumchuk has already noted price are rising in anticipation of gun bans. The last go around the prices tripled overnight so buy an extra firing pin and some spare parts plus quality clips..They even went sky high last time.
That's a start. If you but at gun shows from private paries the paper trail is thin which is good.
Best of luck
Habu, Thanks for all the great info you provide. I bought a Taurus PT24/7 .45 instead of the Springfield you have. I have small hands and the Taurus just felt more comfortable.Do you know anything about the Russian Saiga? Jim Rawles thought it to be an adequate rifle. The rifle's he likes are real pricey. I should'nt complain about price my wife caught me cleaning the Taurus and went ape shit. Now she wants tiled bathrooms . That dam pistola is costing me 4 Grand. I'll be dam but I'm still gettin me some type of black rifle.
All I know is Jim Rawles know his stuff.
Just make sure you get a DVD that teaches you about your weapon. Get a few important spare parts an clips. One clips isn't gonna get it.
If the stuff hits the fan at least your wife will have a nice place to whtch the stuff bitting the fan but unless a bad guy slips on the soap she's in deep do do.
If she went bat-guano over the Taurus, wait 'till she finds you cleaning this:
But it is a good alternative to the AR and AK. If you can find one.
i cain't believe de missus want a bafroom. whut rong wit dat bucket?
Is there anywhere I could take a firearms training course? Does the NRA or any other organization offer such things? I usually lean things from books or DVD's, but guns seen like it would be best learned hands on.
sean, you can get good with a 12 or a 20 gauge pump fast -- run a box of shells thru it and you'll be ready for most any trouble. No muss no fuss, a weapon that is usually the best all-around for most situations, safe against accident, easy to use well, easy to maintain, easy to resupply ammo, flexible and mission adaptable per type of ammo, and the last thing the blue meanies will try to take away from you. $200 and you're done, safe as you'll get, most likely, and a good weapon addition to any neighborhood protection unit.
rifle & pistol get you greater range but at greater skill demand -- plus in urban enviro penetrate walls that shotgun pellets won't -- plus the shotgun range is far shorter and thus safer in regards to stray shots hitting an innocent. best of all the spread pattern of shot shells makes missing your target a whole big bunch less likely.
Buddy is spot on in advocating a shotgun in the home defense scenario. If that is what you are looking for, follow his advice.
On training. I don't know a great deal about this but the US Government actually hasa program. You'll have to ferret out the goodies in your area but here's a start.
I think you can learn just about all the basics you'll need and I believe the ammo is free. You'll get to shoot al the way up to an M-1 Garand...become a Band of Brothers.
Two words: Hi Point
Check out their carbines and handguns. Cheap and cheery. The carbines shoot pistol rounds.
With more cash get a Kel-Tech Sub2000 carbine that shoots 9mm and takes Glock clips which go way over 10 round capacity.
If you have a budget concern you can get a pistol and a rifle that shoot the same ammo and even hold the same clips.
Ditto to what Phil said. Another approach would be an S&W 686 revolver and a Marlin 1894C lever action carbine, both capable of firing mild .38 Specials and more powerful .357 Magnums. Both are very robust, safe, easily understood by a novice, and easy to fix yourself with readily obtainable spare parts.
Let's not forget Auction Arms, the other firearms auction site on the web. http://auctionarms.com. I like the S&W 66 in 38/357 and the Rossi 92 lever action in the same caliber, if I had to choose only two. Not that that's likely to happen, I think my collection is back up to around 50, these days.
whooee -- you gettin' rich just waking up in the mornin', gunsmith. Few things is quite as satisfying as having gotten youself pre-positioned before a market run.
I just bought a REM 81100 870 EXP 20 18 CY 2RDEXT BLK.
which is a great all around weapon with extra capacity.
You'll want to alternate loads for different effects on targets.
go here and check out some specialty loads
You'll be safe in most all situation with this combo.
i have a couple of old home-defense bangers, one by JC Higgins (Sears) and other by Montgomery Ward. Stevens, i think, or Savage (it's way out in the barn, for if i get home invaded and have to dive out the winder, i can grab that old 12 in the barn and wait for bad guys outside, where i get to be the hunter). Old guns. These were called ''hardware guns'' back when, because hardware stores sold 'em, and they were strictly utilitarian. But they're good guns, and you can find 'em nowadays as Savage, Stevens, JC Higgins, IIRC. either 12 or 20. A 20 will reach just as far and hit just as hard per unit of shot as a 12, but with fewer units of shot (tho a heavy 20 shell will have more than a light 12 shell -- but not to get too detailed). i just looked at (link) and quick scan saw two of 'em @ ~$200:
But try a gun store so you can hold one. Then shop price. -- would be my advice. Mossburg, too, and remington, make great pump shotguns -- google 'em. Lots of used ones available.
duh -- i was hooked on finding a $200 gun, and forgot to mention the hi value moderate-price very popular Remington 870. I even have one, tho it's not in my mind as a home-def gun -- it's a birder. anyhoo there'll be a lot of 870s at any gunstore of any size.
tips: take out the plug and it'll hold more shells (unsure of legality, but inside house, for emergency, so what). Also you can shorten the barrel (hacksaw) if you're really into optimizing handiness for home defense. you can reinstall the front sight, if you want, with a drill.
1. There is a legal question about sawed-off, I think, but I am not sure
2. No doubt a shotgun is the best tool for home defence. I recommend a pump, because just the sound should send anybody running the other way.
3. It's illegal to hunt with the plug out. 3 shells, max, for bird or duck hunting.
Regarding rifle and pistol rounds penetrating walls and killing the neighbors dog there have been some advances in ammo.
The ammo is called frangible ammo. It has the same accuracy and velocity as normal ammo however when it hits the target it fragments more easily. In other words you get the bad guy down and dead but save the dog.
I would also offer this word of caution about joining clubs. If you shoot a good deal and become an expert that is one thing. If you do the same and belong to a club another matter arises.
If you were forced to use deadly force and end up in court the matter of your proficiency will arise. If five team members all say you're the best shot in the world then someone is going to ask , "Why didn't you simply wound him?" It complicates things.
If you become expert on your own there are fewer to say how good you are.
I know this sounds silly but the question arises. However if you feel threatened enough to pull a gun/shotgun do kill the person. That way they can't say they were stopping to get help fixing a flat tire or some other junk.
It can get nasty out there. I hope you never are in the position to have to use a firearm BUT usually you don't get to dictate that. Act quickly but don't rush your shot. Practice until you are good and keep in mind that 90%+ of all shootings take place within 10 feet, so don't get a pistol and start shooting at a target 25 yards away, you'll just be wasting ammo.
Thanks, great advice from everyone. I saved all the links to my favorites page and copied this page. Now comes the homework. Thanks again.
you're welcome. be sure and search [ shotgun shells ] and get the fundies down. be aware magnum shells may damage a pump not designed for 'em. for a quick ref, think of shells as in a three group in regards to powder charge, heavy (''magnum''), medium ("standard"), & light ("field").
with an older pump, stay medium, or "standard", imho.
Magnum is the power end of the scale, so is tops for defense, but a magnum 12 is pretty horsey in a home setting and will surely jolt a lighter body-weight inexperienced shooter. (tip, the tighter you hold a long gun, the harder you press the butt into your shoulder, the less kick you feel) And be sure the gun is designed for the magnum -- not all are.
Field loads are easiest on recoil ("kick") but surrender some close-in stopping power.
then you have one more choice, the size of the shot. all-around quickie for home defense, most would say #4, tho #00 ("double-ought buckshot") can't be faulted.
of course, in an apartment house, and/or with kids in other rooms, etcetera, you may want to go light, toward a field load with #71/2 or #9 ("birdshot"), which will defend your family as well as magnum double-oughts in all but the extreme cases. All-else-equal (in range, load, and strike zone) birdshot is more 'wounding' and less 'killing'. but nary a soul wants a to be hit by even a lite field load of #9, and it the safest end of the spectrum in regards to hitting a bystander.
re habu's warning, in-court defending a shooting, couldn't hoit to splain to the jury those lite shells mean you went minimal force -- even if the intruder was killed (which a field load of #9, in close, will surely do).
Conversely, to a jury, the heavy load say #00 magnum might confuse the issue.
LOL -- all this jury stuff is the rankest of rank speculation -- maybe there is some case somewhere but i dunno. i DO know i could do wonders with the shotshell in a court, on either side, prosecution or defense -- if my client or the people was aligned with the helpful end of the shotshell power/lethality scale.
But, all in all, imho, you should make that training box o shells "standard load, #4 shot".
For freeway work I rely on my 20 guage pump with alternating slugs and buckshot.
Me thinks, you meant his fart, because art doesn't describe someone who beats drum for mass murder, rebellion against imaginary wrongs and implying enlistment of Blackwater, Vennell Corp. , the Olive group in his personal revolution.
I'm sure the civilians of those organizations will be surprised at that revelation.
Drug induced brain farts are not art.
They do reqiure remedial ventilating and rebuke, however.
Art is praise worhty.
My comment above was tongue in cheek, but seriously the last thing we need is a revolution in this country. They need a revolution in Zimbabwe, there it would be justified. Not here. It always distresses me when people start calling for revolution in the United States. It usually comes from the left. It is childish. I'm all for the 2nd Amendment, and people defending themselves. Let's at least wait and see how the current court rules on the issues, before going off half cocked.
all this time i thought we had been talking about home defense --
Yes, that is the original topic.
Habu spun it with the. war coming here theme.
I suppose his spin could be called an art if he is a factitous player.
Suppose he isn't a wheel chair bound viagra freak.
Suppose he is really CIA on a mission to incite conspiracy.
Stranger things have happened.
Endearing and knowledgable and radical.
Remember, he is the Queen of Hearts.
queen of hearts -- supremely empathic, filled with spirits, representative of the Grail.
I was referring to the viperous one.
Who says, "Off with their heads!"