Maggie's Farm

We are a commune of inquiring, skeptical, politically centrist, capitalist, anglophile, traditionalist New England Yankee humans, humanoids, and animals with many interests beyond and above politics. Each of us has had a high-school education (or GED), but all had ADD so didn't pay attention very well, especially the dogs. Each one of us does "try my best to be just like I am," and none of us enjoys working for others, including for Maggie, from whom we receive neither a nickel nor a dime. Freedom from nags, cranks, government, do-gooders, control-freaks and idiots is all that we ask for.

Our Recent Essays Behind the Front Page

Much Sorry with Delays
Birth, Death and All That Stuff in Between
How to Honor Labor Day, Every Day
My Yom Kippur Miracle (Repost from 2010)
Good intro to fly casting
Peach update, with pie
NYC update
Easy for you to say: To the elites on mass immigration
For NYC on 9/11, Sailors' Snug Harbor
Pickled Peaches
Water Shoes
Labor Costs in U.S.
Your "identity"
Good news about The Great Courses
Uses of Hot Pepper Jelly/Sauce, Chutneys, and Jams
A Saturday Drive to Litchfield County, CT
How to Pick a Kayak
Civilized: Fruit forks and knives
Loads of kayaking on Cape Cod
Psychology Experiments' Questionable Results

Categories


All categories

Quicksearch

Links

Blog Administration

Open login screen

RSS Readers

Add to Google

Subscribe with Bloglines

Friday, June 20. 2008

Shall

Good grammar doesn't reveal your IQ, but it does reveal the quality of your reading and your education - or your absorption therof. So, to refresh my grammar, I shall review "will" and "shall", and you shall listen to me.

The important verb "will" has two conjugations: for plain future, it's "(I or we) shall..." and (You or they) will...". For commands, promises, and assertions, it's the reverse. Simple.

Posted by The Barrister in The Culture, "Culture," Pop Culture and Recreation at 11:55 | Comments (6) | Trackbacks (0)

Trackbacks
Trackback specific URI for this entry

No Trackbacks

Comments
Display comments as (Linear | Threaded)

Ah, shades of Mr. Bryce Lambert, an early tutor of mine; and a stickler for proper use of the language. In just two sentences, I've probably committed several egregious errors.
#1 Steve on 2008-06-20 13:31 (Reply)
Dear Barrister,

I think good grammar shows more than education. Good grammar shows that one is concerned with being precise in one's communication. It also, at times, encourages more thoughtful response.

Regards,
Roy
#2 Roy Lofquist on 2008-06-20 21:57 (Reply)
Rubbish. I thought the same a few decades ago. Prescriptive "proper" use is contextual, and is a only cultural marker.

It is a cultural marker I instilled in my own children, mind you, and my usage is is a touch pedantic and archaic even in social situations. But that is only a marker of my training and a communication of a small subset of my values. The proper usage balloon is easily deflated with a few pokes.

Interestingly, I did a post of my own this very month on shall versus will, as the controversy came up at work. http://assistantvillageidiot.blogspot.com/2008/06/shall-vs-will.html

In brief, the usage in southern England, and hence Oxford and Cambridge, is the reverse of "correct" usage in the rest of the English-speaking world. Which is correct, then?

Lawyers preserve some distinction because it sounds right to them. Translators and technical writers use "shall" for command or intensity.
#3 Assistant Village Idiot (Link) on 2008-06-20 23:31 (Reply)
As one well-known Elizabethan poet wrote "if you will not when you can, you shall not when you will, sir." It was spoken by a young woman, during the course of a courtship, if I remember correctly, and I remember it because it was such a great put-down. Wish I could remember which poet it was. I just Googled the phrase and Dr. Google refused to help me.

Marianne Matthews
#4 Marianne Matthews on 2008-06-21 00:02 (Reply)
Dear Marianne,

Thank you.

Regards,
Roy
#5 Roy Lofquist on 2008-06-21 01:31 (Reply)
I always use ``had better'' and ``would rather'' instead.
#6 Ron Hardin (Link) on 2008-06-21 11:46 (Reply)

Add Comment
(Your e-mail will not show in your comment)

By commenting on this site you agree to the site rules listed here. Email
addresses will not be displayed and will only be used for email notifications.

Quick reference guide: [i] italics [/i], [b] bold [/b], [u] underline [/u],
[url] (web address) [/url]. More tips here.

Enclosing asterisks marks text as bold (*word*), underscore are made via _word_.
E-Mail addresses will not be displayed and will only be used for E-Mail notifications.

To prevent automated Bots from commentspamming, please enter the string you see in the image below in the appropriate input box. Your comment will only be submitted if the strings match. Please ensure that your browser supports and accepts cookies, or your comment cannot be verified correctly.
CAPTCHA

BBCode format allowed
 
 
A Chris Southern Consulting website.