We are a commune of inquiring, skeptical, politically centrist, capitalist, anglophile, traditionalist New England Yankee humans, humanoids, and animals with many interests beyond and above politics. Each of us has had a high-school education (or GED), but all had ADD so didn't pay attention very well, especially the dogs. Each one of us does "try my best to be just like I am," and none of us enjoys working for others, including for Maggie, from whom we receive neither a nickel nor a dime. Freedom from nags, cranks, government, do-gooders, control-freaks and idiots is all that we ask for.
Our Recent Essays Behind the Front Page
Friday, August 17. 2007
Tom Tancredo, as heard (paraphrased) on the Monica Crowley radio show on WABC a few weeks ago.
We have often addressed "diversity" and "tolerance," words which in their pomo incarnations represent appalling if not insane ideas. (For a few examples, No Lux, No Veritas, Scared by His Own Research, Trust Cues and Tribalism, and Steyn on War, Demographics, Multiculturalism, Tolerance, and the Masochism of the West.)
From Daniel Henninger in the WSJ yesterday, The Death of Diversity, a quote (h/t, Loyal Reader):
Read the whole thing. There's a video too. (Too bad he got the "Do unto others..." bit wrong - it sorta spoils a good piece, but you get the point.)
Image: I get a kick out of that old Benetton ad. which was on all of the busses when I lived in NYC.
A dumb blond. Cute photo from Theo, but if her fingers are on the triggers then she had better intend to fire those things. There is one right way, and there are many wrong ways, to display a handgun. Scary-dumb.Happy 60th Birthday to Larry Kudlow (yester
Weblog: Maggie's Farm
Tracked: Aug 19, 10:20
Race, Tribalism and Trust Cues
Our post on Race in the Race last a few weeks ago reminded me of the several posts we have done over recent years about tribalism and trust, making the rather obvious point that people tend towards "affinity groups" because they know they are mo
Weblog: Maggie's Farm
Tracked: May 30, 13:23
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History corner: 1892 : Mae West born ..yeah other stuff happened but.... quiz ..what leading male star did she discover?
I think you have done a magnificent job presenting a multitude to topics to the MF tifosi.
Of the Essays I admit to being such a Mark Steyn fan that he could write on the virtues of stepping in a pile of dog mess immediately prior to meeting the Queen and I would, say, "What a brilliant essayists"
"But diversity isn't our strength: freedom is our strength. Uncontrolled cultural diversity is the story of the Tower of Babel."
You can't say freedom is our strength and then in the same breath predict doom if everyone isn't forced into the same culture and language. This is not freedom. The bable myth was created to curtail human freedom, not defend it.
But I think, or at least hope, that what's really on your nreves is the idea that other peoples culture and heratige is to be celebrated simply on the basis of being different from the norm. While those of us who are from the dominant culture are marginalized. This does happen in corporate and acedemic life and is often taken to an unhealthy extreme. It get's on my nerves, too.
On the other hand, all this diversity does create a lot of interesting choices when it's time to decide where to go to lunch.
always found it interesting that the Tower of Babel was--as the Bible says--painted a sky blue, which is also the UN's color. what does this mean? oh, nothing, probably.
Subsitute the words "integration" and "miscegenation" for "diversity" and "tolerance" and you begin to understand the mania of the Daniel Henninger's and Mark Steyn's of the world. Memo to all: "multi-culturalism" isn't some kind of Stalinist directive from some Central Planning Committee, but simply the reality of living in 21st century America. I'm sorry but that means sometimes you just have to interact with the "brown ones."
As usual, the discussion gets cut short by someone accusing racism. That is very lame.
We are discussing cultural differences here, not skin. Skin means nothing to me, but character and culture mean a lot to me.
Someone get the fainting coach, I've accused Mark Steyn fans of "racism!"
So if this has nothing to do with race and everything to do with "culture" and "character" do you care to elaborate on what exactly is your problem with living in a diverse and multi-cultural country? Moreover what is your alternative? All I see here is a few people griping at a billboard with children of different races, while claiming the "pomo" definition of diversity is "dangerous" and "insane." So I ask, what exactly is your gripe with living in a multi-cultural society, and what do you propose as an alternative?
Central Park and step on it...
" Hey man this picture doesn't look like to at all"
Suggestion...learn to speak Urdo if you want to get someplace in NYC chop-chop.
...you are now designated "Smartest in the Realm", "Wisest of the Wise" and "Grand Keeper of I Told You So"
So what's for dinner?
You ask..."So I ask, what exactly is your gripe with living in a multi-cultural society, and what do you propose as an alternative?
Well based on the data they are usually dumber, use more social sevices (my tax dollars redistributed) contribute practically zero other that stories about the number of flys in their countries and in general take more than they give to our society. They're better off at home waiting for USAID trucks to arrive and warding off ebola or whatever malady allicts whatever culture they're from.....which is where they should be ....back at from.
You forgot that they also sap our precious bodily fluids...
but seriously though, let me get this straight: your argument against cultural diversity is that fly-ridden, ebola victims who come here to steal your tax dollars should get the hell back to where they came from?
I'm terribly sorry I ever implied that your fear of the unwashed, swarthy, hoards had anything to do with your strung out and ever-dwindling sense self-worth based on racial superiority. I sincerely apologize.
Man you were do'in so fine right up until you weren't.
a drain on my earnered income via redistribution...check
Racial superiority ABSOLUTELY ...see how that works..the march of progress of mankind in say Uganda or Haiti versus those in primarily caucasian countries....historically, intellectually, creativily, across the board ..superior in the caucasian cultures..is race a component of any of that ..only the most PC, and most absurd would say no....Sub Saharan Africa with an average IQ of 70 vs Compton ,CA with an average of 78..no comparison...
That's why they all want to come to the USA ..cause they can't get it done themselves.
Do certain races excel in certain things ..yes. I do not believe for a moment you can find a child in North American that can herd a gaggle of dung beetles like a good kid from Africa can. Not for minute .. hell you think you're superior to me. Being aware of racial differences and talking about them doesn't make one a racist, more like a realist.
What we do have is an IQ diversity for sure. But we are eroding our gene pool by allowing the wrong people to immigrate.
Peter Brimelow writes: The original draft of my huge 1992 National Review cover story “Time to Rethink Immigration” contained a discussion of IQ and immigration policy, alluding to Richard J. Herrnstein’s and Charles Murray’s book The Bell Curve, which I knew was in preparation. The reaction of my dear friend John O’Sullivan, NR’s Editor in those happy days, was very instructive. Not only did he insist on cutting out the discussion, but he also hunted down every copy of the original draft in NR’s office and had them destroyed. His argument was that any mention of IQ or heredity at all would result in the issue monopolizing all response to my article, plunging the rest of my very broad case against contemporary immigration policy irretrievably into the dark. No doubt he was right. But public debate on both immigration policy and the IQ issue has gone backwards since 1992, although the issues are more pressing than ever. VDARE is happy to provide Steve Sailer with a place to explore them.
America and the Left Half of the Bell Curve
Part I: IQ and Why We're Afraid to Talk About It
Part II: How the Other Half Lives
By Steve Sailer
The last twenty years of immigration have thus brought about a redistribution of wealth in America, from less-skilled workers and toward employers. [Harvard economist George] Borjas estimates that one half of the relative fall in the wages of high school dropouts since the 1980s can be traced directly to mass immigration. At some point, this kind of wealth redistribution, from the less well off to the affluent, becomes malignant. In the 1950s and ‘60s, Americans with low reading and math scores could aspire to and achieve the American Dream of a middle class lifestyle. That is less realistic today. Americans today who do poorly in high school are increasingly condemned to a low-wage existence; and mass immigration is a major reason why.
or some Thomas Sowell
Race and IQ
Years ago, while doing research on education and IQ, I happened to be in the principal's office at a black school in Cincinnati, as he was preparing to open a large brown envelope containing the results of IQ tests that his students had taken. Before he opened the envelope, I offered to bet him that a large majority of the students with IQs over 110 would be girls.
He was too smart to take the bet. Studies had shown that females predominated among high-IQ blacks. One study of blacks whose IQs were 140 and up found that there were more than five times as many females as males at these levels.
As it turned out, the research showed that the average IQ difference between black and white Americans -- 15 points -- was nothing unusual. Similar IQ differences could be found between various culturally isolated white communities and the general society, both in the United States and in Britain. Among various groups in India, mental test differences were slightly greater than those between blacks and whites in the United States.
and a book for reading:
IQ and the Wealth of Nations
by Richard Lynn
A clear example of how a bad environment can hurt IQ can be seen in the IQ scores for sub-Saharan African countries. They average only around 70. In contrast, African-Americans average about 85. It appears unlikely that African-Americans' white admixture can account for most of this 15-point gap because they are only around 17%-18% white on average, according to the latest genetic research. (Thus African-Americans white genes probably couldn't account for more than 3 points of the gap between African-Americans and African-Africans.) This suggests that the harshness of life in Africa might be cutting ten points or more off African IQ scores
Lynn and Vanhanen benchmarked their IQ results so that Britain is 100. America scores 98 on this scale, and the world average is 90. IQ's are assumed to form a normal probability distribution ("bell curve") with the standard deviation set at 15. Here are a few examples:
Nation Avg. IQ
Eq. Guinea 59
Hong Kong 107
Bottom line...if you're going to have immigration policies to bebfit your country don't let the dumb ones in. They cost more in social services and add nothing to the IQ gene pool.
I have discoverd that the system will not take multiple citations at the ends of various sections one might cite...you get a SPAM block..
I always try to provide the address of the source I cite but by removing them, the system allowed me to post.
Here are the citations if theysytem will accept them:
I did not use Wiki in this piece due to it's controversial nature...however since it is widely cited and the link between culture, IQ, and natural intelligence remains in flux I thought this might frame what the sub Saharan people are fighting with IQ's in the 70's...from Wiki
An IQ of 70 is often associated with mental retardation, but deficits in adaptive behavior, such as telling the time, interacting socially, and looking after oneself, have only limited correlation with IQ, and are more important than IQ in determining whether a person is able to live an independent life (Mackintosh 1998, p. 177). Mercer 1973 reported that on the basis of IQ alone 10 times as many Blacks as Whites would be classified as retarded, but when adaptive behavior measures are added to the criterion, this difference completely disappears. Some ethnic differences in cognitive ability appear in some aspects of cognitive ability and not others (see below; Mackintosh 1998, p. 178). The Black-White disparity seen in IQ does not appear in some basic cognitive functions that don't involve more than minimal elaboration, transformation, or other mental manipulation (Mackintosh 1998, p. 178; Jensen 1973
Liberalism and tolerance are the only rational alternatives in the modern world. Spending precious energy decrying diversity will only put you in league with the Wahabiists. As a liberal with an anarchistic bent, the attribute I can least tolerate is cultural intolerance, which is a vestige of tribalism. Let the bigots, fundamentalists of all stripes just die out and let reason reign I say. Superstition, fear and repression are my enemies.
George Bernard Shaw was right. If you're too inept or self-important to survive in a multi-cultural environment, you will not thrive and your life will be all the poorer. However, I can sympathize with your distaste for institutionalized diversity training and the like. Human nature, like the rest of nature, is far to diverse and unfathomable to tame and in our vain attempts to establish our norms we are doomed to war and annihilation.
"Liberalism and tolerance are the only rational alternatives in the modern world".
So basically you're saying everyone should convert to this one point of view and then we can celebrate diversity? Think about that for a minute.
An IQ of 70 is often associated with mental retardation
I think you're near the precipice.
Answer to the MW question:
My stepfather, when he was painting her living room--or, was that some other baloon bouncer?
AP you are sooo close ...actually one day while on the set she saw a young man walking by and inquired who he was. He was a looker.
She found out his name was Archibald Leech. Well Archibald Leech sure wasn't gonna fly in Hollywood so he became Cary Grant ..the rest is.
I'm not trying to convert anyone to anything. That would be a waste of time and energy. I'm too busy enjoying life. Either the rest of the world will come around or not. I have no great interest in whether our species survives or not.
What happens to the business of enjoying life when the Wahabists are significantly represented in your communities diversity. Take the long view...
My kids go to school with children from many different countries. I've worked with people from China, Taiwan, India, Greece, Egypt, Germany, Russia, Spain, Korea, and elsewhere. The vast majority of these folks were great and would be assets to any country they lived in.
So I don't understand why so many people are so negative about diversity. My life and my family's life have been enriched by contact with people from different backgrounds and different cultures. Having an open society has allowed people of many different races, ethnicities, religions and cultures to flourish in this country and contribute to its well-being and success.
Now, being down on diversity training is completely understandable. Frankly, it's bullsh*t -- a scam by consultants to extract money from businesses. Enforcing strong anti-discrimination policies regarding hiring and promotion and creating an open corporate culture are far more effective than diversity seminars.
I don't think anyone is saying these people wouldn't be great in their community. I'm not. But there is a difference between an established, traditional community and one that is founded on diversity.
I travel and I have friends from divergent cultures. When I visit them, their culture is the norm. In a traditional community what effect will a rapid influx of unassimalated immigrants have on the fabric of that community. Some current research suggest it won't be good. I don't believe it is beneficial to the community or the new citizens.
Mark Steyn's new sensational book !!!!
The Best Quotes From Mark Steyn's 'The Face Of The Tiger'
"'The Washington Post said Saturday that a top-secret briefing memo presented to President Bush in 1998 focused on efforts by Osama Bin Laden in the US.' President Who in 1998? As I recall, it was the 42nd guy, Clinton, William J, and in 1998 he was too busy declaring his pants a Federal Disaster Area to do much about terrorist masterminds."
"(T)he Islamofascists loathe the rest of the west almost as much as they hate the US, but the difference is that, for the most part, those countries are content to be, as the Canadian columnist David Warren put it, 'mere spectators in our fates'."
Instead of an empire, the US belongs to Nato, a defence pact of prosperous Western nations in which only one guy picks up the tab, a military alliance for countries that no longer in any recognizable sense have militaries. The US taxpayer's willingness to pay for the defence of Canada and Europe has contributed to the decay of America's so-called "allies", freeing them to disband their armed forces, flirt with dictators and gangster states, and essentially convert themselves to semi-non-aligned
"Many consequences will flow from September 11th. The reactions of Continental governments confirm the worthlessness of Cold War alliances. Collective security, far from binding the western world, has corrupted it: the "free world" is mostly just a free ride."
"Pacifist propaganda usually boils down to saying that one side is as bad as the others, but if one looks closely a the writings of younger intellectual pacifists, one finds that they do not by any means express impartial disapproval but are directed almost entirely against Britain and the United States. It is ever so."
"...If the US wasn't out of step -- if it was just another Belgium or Canada -- Islamic Fundamentalism would be unstoppable. It's because Americans are crazy enough to like owning guns and frying murderers and driving the world's biggest cars at the world's lowest gas prices that they're prepared to maintain the only serious military in the western alliance."
"...(T)o coin a phrase, impotence breeds decadence."
I like living in a diverse society. I like learning about (and from) other cultures, eating different cuisine, and developing friendships with people who aren't like me.
My issue is not with people who are different, but with the belief that all cultures and values are equally valid.
The problem with "diversity and tolerance" as it's practiced in the West today is exemplified in the liberal dilemma over Muslim female genital mutilation -- women shouldn't be mutilated, but who are we to impose our values? The British in India were absolutely right to stop Hindus from burning women, even though they were intolerant.
Diversity is fine. But true tolerance means you let others live life as they see fit; not that your beliefs are beyond criticism or that you should never have to be offended or inconvenienced.
The post-modern diversity and tolerance movement says that we have to respect not just people but all ideas equally. That's foolish, juvenile, destructive, and ultimately demeaning.
What's the problem with diversity and tolerance?
"Hospital staff in the Lothians have been told not to eat at their desks to avoid offending Muslim colleagues during Ramadan. NHS Lothian has advised doctors and other health workers not to have working lunches during the 30-day fast, which begins next month.
The health service's Equality and Diversity Officer sent an e-mail to all senior managers, giving guidance on religious tolerance."
From The Scotsman (via The Corner, via InstaPundit).
As a liberal with an anarchistic bent, the attribute I can least tolerate is cultural intolerance, which is a vestige of tribalism
I can't tell you how disappointed I am.
All this time I thought you were an Hegelian, crypto-Trotskyite with a bent frame on your Yugo and a tribal vegan. I'm glad you cleared that up.
Now what was your point?
Diversity is fine. Gentital mutilation is just a cultural diversity. Burning people..humans been do'in it for years in diffent cultures too ..in South Africa they "necklace" those who don't "buy into the program of genocide..Necklacing is placing a car tire filled with gasoline around the neck of the victim and igniting it ..but hey, it just cultural diversity.
I like meeting new and different people too.
But as for the cultural part. If they want to come to the USA and not assimilate but remain clitoral butchers, Voodoo practitioners, Mau Mau elitists they've come to the wrong place.
That's why we have different countries around the globe, so they can just be all they can be, using all 70 points of their IQ.
But not here,no,no,no...
You may be unaware of this but the Scotsman is THE left wing socialist paper in Scotland
If we we're going to go in for monoculturalism, why would we would opt for the culture of red state America as the culture of the country? If only out of self interest, you guys should be in favor of tolerance since you are asking the rest of us to tolerate your own dubious beliefs and practices. Genital mutilation is pretty hard to endorse, but so is a taste for torture and violence, not to mention an endless promotion of absurd and irrational forms of religion. Be careful of what you wish for. If we start picking and choosing between cultures, the folkways of you Neanderthals won't even make the first cut.
Sorry, we Neanderthals forgot to figure the enlightened, progressive tolerance into the equation. Wait a minute... Did you just call us Neanderthals? Straight to bed this instant! No diversity for you hypocrite.
See, here's the misunderstanding of "tolerance."
I'm not suggesting monoculturalism. I don't want the USA to be renamed Jesusland. Nobody is asking for government support of NASCAR, NEA funding for Larry the Cable Guy, or university-supplied holy water fonts in the bathrooms.
You are free to express scornful disdain of a culture you don't like. Does everyone get that freedom? Are all ideas and religions on the table for equal criticism?
Because if we have to make special accommodations for the feelings of Muslims (Don't publish those Mohammed cartoons; don't bring wine in a cab; don't expect Muslims not to make a mess on the floor and destroy sinks others must use; don't eat at your desk during Ramadan; don't offer piggy banks for sale), how it that true diversity?
If you want true diversity, then that means Muslims will have to stand up like adults and let their religion take shots, too.
If only we could have the same for Christians in this country, too.
You're the first one to mention a monoculture .... devine that from the Dephic Oracles?
No, what would be nice is a return to the time when we had a multi-decade hiatus on immigration and a more selective process of who gets inot the country. We don't need hordes of 70-80 IQ'ers maf'in ababies so society can raise them.
As for your back hand to the red states as the culture of American...too late, how do you think all that red showed up? People VOTED for certain platforms and reputiated others.....results red stae America..not to worry it will change, always does.
Your gratuitous slap at red staets endorsement of torture and violence ...more scholarship on the violence part....red state violence is per capita WAY behind the blues.
Absurd and irrational forms of religion?...why Jim Harrison how dare you insult Dearborn ,Detroit,NYC,California that way.
Those mutilating Muslims in Dearborn gonna get you man.
BTW you still have that McGovern sticker on your Volvo?
"The post-modern diversity and tolerance movement says that we have to respect not just people but all ideas equally. That's foolish, juvenile, destructive, and ultimately demeaning."
Specifically, who has said this? And more, using POMO to describe it is silly. Its a term absent any specific definition. But as an adjective, I guess it lends a certain implied egg-headed socialist/maxist connotation that the conservative mindset finds appealing.
I spend a great deal of time reading blogs, both left and right. Never have I seen a liberal defense of female genital mutilation. I do frequently read rightwing attacks on liberals for not denouncing it. NOW and several other feminist organizations have been denouncing it for years. But it never seems to catch the attention of the MSM like the disappearance of another young blond white women. Also, there is a substantial degree of difference between allowing for footbaths for Muslim college students and condoning FGM. A little nuance and context go a long way toward rationalizing debate. It's unfortunate that the vast majority of blogs exist, not to further debate, but to stupidly and repetitively attack and demonize the other as amoral, evil and sub-human .
And Habu, down he-yer in Ole' Dixie it use to be the cultural norm to lynch, mutilate and burn the bodies of uppity negras not that awfully long ago. I guarantee you, there are lots of good ole' boys that still think that would be a peachy way of protecting our American way of life.
As with Jeff, provide me with a specific and verifiable quote of some leader in the so-called movement who claims we must allow genital-mutilation in the US for the sake of diversity and tolerance.
I'm not usually in favor of doing others' work for them, but in re: FGM, You could try here:
re: "Who has said this?"
If you haven't been paying attention for the last 20 years or so, I doubt I'll be able to help you catch up in a blog post. Here's a sample from a quick Googling:
"Many contend that the very notion of human rights is a western concept (Pannikar); that the U.N. Declaration of human rights is the expression of its predominantly western constituency (L. Nader and Gambino). These approaches see the human rights discourse as part of a Western discourse or even a Western hegemonic discourse, affected by the positional superiority Edward Said wrote about."
Multiculturalism is hardly a new strategy. It has been the inevitable policy of successful nations from the time of the Persian empire and even before. In contrast, cultural paranoia and the intolerance that goes with it is natural in groups suffering from low self esteem and injured pride, e.g. American southerners and Islamic fundamentalists. It is defensive.
Islam is not about ready to take over the world, though certain Muslim groups are certainly a genuine problem and have to be dealt with. Indeed, the fantasies of a restored Caliphate and the like, far from expressing a realistic program, are obviously a way of compensating for the political and cultural impotence of Middle Eastern countries just as your chest-thumping, totalitarian patriotism compensates for what is really a rather shaky sense of national identity. After all, what really menaces you is not Iran or Syria or some bearded guy in a cave but the liberalism of mainstream American civilization with its commitment to openness, skepticism, and democracy.
By the way, anybody who thinks that American conservatives don't want to impose their culture on everybody has never lived in a southern town.
"By the way, anybody who thinks that American liberals don't want to impose their culture on everybody has never lived in a northern town."
Now, what was that about cultural paranoia, intolerance, and low self esteem?
You are deep in the woods without a compass, no survival skills and the sun is going down. You're lost.
Making a comparison of the desired Islamic Caliphate to...
"are obviously a way of compensating for the political and cultural impotence of Middle Eastern countries just as your chest-thumping, totalitarian patriotism compensates for what is really a rather shaky sense of national identity.
A nuclear Iran would menace us Jim, just trust me and all other members of the Round Earth Society on that.
I recall no chest thumping prior to 9-11. In fact what we had was an inaugural address that stresses a lower US profile globally....but golly then those bad guys did bad things ...stupid things too...and they keep saying threatening things to us...not good ..must get gun nd kill them....comprede? It's called the moral right to defend yourself when attacked.....we were attacked weren't we?
We were attacked? Ah, but WERE we? Remember, deep in the leftospheric fever swamps, the meaning of "is" isn't so "easy" to "understand".
"As for your back hand to the red states as the culture of American...too late, how do you think all that red showed up?"
melting pot = America
MultiCult = not melting pot.
So where was I when my history teacher told us of the Great Nations and Empires who were based on proper application of MultiCult as defined by those here who think whites have to sit down and shut up?
That great MultiCult must have advanced very quickly and moved off planet or something some time ago!
You don't have to apologize for results, simply show me yours and I might agree.
Watch out, Johan Galtung is going to show up here any minute.
"Uncontrolled cultural diversity is the story of the Tower of Babel."
how right you are. like the tower of Babel, the evils of "uncontrolled cultural diveristy" is a myth designed to scare the ignorant. good job!
What is the relationship between multiculturalists and the multiple cultures they love? Clearly a multiculturalist likes all of the multiple cultures they celebrate whether they be Muslim, Japanese, Chinese, Somali, African-American, etc. Oddly enough, however, none of these cultures are themselves multi-cultural. Japan for example is fiercely protective of its culture, as are most other cultures in the world. So do multiculturalists advocate we all adopt multiculturalism as our ethic? If so, multiculturalism advocates changing the cultures they purport to respect. If multiculturalism wants al these cultures to change and to adopt a common culture, in what sense is it multi-cultural and not monocultural? If multiculturalists are not urging that all people adopt multiculturalism and that instead people retain their culture, what exactly is multiculturalism advocating? That people remain mono-cultural and not multicultural? If everyone behaves multicultural, and enjoys all types of foods, all ethnic festivals, adopts all religious beliefs, enjoys all types of music and visual arts--in other words, if they abandon their culture--multiculturalism ends up destroying all the cultures it purports to protect.
My suspicion is that liberal multiculturalists really want everyone else to remain monocultural while they aristocratically float above them all and want to reserve the multicultural perspective and arrogant, elitist moral and aesthetic superiority and sense of freedom they feel for themselves.
Yeah, hey guys... Thanks for coming by and showing us Neanderthals how well cultural diversity works.
I always took the tower of Babel story to be a warning that words--the ultimate creation of our great minds--must have real meanings, so that a speaker and a hearer understand each other, because if they don't understand each other, there's sure to be trouble. So, the moral of the story is, speak & listen respectfully, because a word is a "co"mmunication.
empedocles, let me get this straight. these mono-cultures are better than ours because they resist blending the better attributes that they are presented from other cultures. isn't that exactly opposite from what has made the US such a great country? its ability to adapt and overcome. its ability to take the best and make it better? so... those who oppose multi-culturalism hate america. it makes sense now...
uh, America is not traditionally multicultural in the sense of the modern definition being bandied about here.
All AMERICANS (hint) started off somewhere else and came here and created something that didn't exist- not by rigid adherance to the old world they gladly left behind.
A melting pot is not multicultural in other words, it is a brew of something different. Something about the whole being greater than something something.
okay buddy, then what is the significance of the tower itself? the attempt to equal god, to reach his unattainable glory. the trouble came before the loss of communication. the loss of communication was punishment for the vainity. however, i do agree with you interpretation of the need and the power of communication, another vote for multi-culturalism.
what i've read is, the tower kept men "looking up" to see God, which is on the surface a good thing, but not what we should be doing, which is to be "looking down" to create on earth the good things. In a way, sort of an indictment of the priest class (in the archaic sense, not necessarily Father Jones down at your neighborhood rectory), which I think we can all agree has more often than not stood between man and the Word, and has thereby created confusion.
Ain't diversity grand!
Britain: MUSLIMS: 'BAN' NON-ISLAMIC SCHOOLS
German judge rules Koran allows wife abuse
Australia: Row over washrooms
Britain: Parents angered as every pupil is given halal school meals
England afraid to fly its own flag
Multiculturalism is great!
an interesting interpretation and a wonderful sentiment which had me re-read the passage (King James Version) and I stand by my statement:
And they said, Go to, let us build us a city and a tower, whose top [may reach] unto heaven; and let us make us a name, lest we be scattered abroad upon the face of the whole earth.
And the LORD came down to see the city and the tower, which the children of men builded.
And the LORD said, Behold, the people [is] one, and they have all one language; and this they begin to do: and now nothing will be restrained from them, which they have imagined to do.
Go to, let us go down, and there confound their language, that they may not understand one another's speech.
"...and now nothing will be restrained from them, which they have imagined to do."
I'm imagining the Tranzi Dream, and again wondering about that sky-blue color of both the UN and the tower. Jeepers, time to get the big placard out and go wander around downtown again, sigh.
Is it me or is it getting harder for blind people with seeing eye dogs to get a taxi these days?
Jephnol, do hurricanes, tornadoes and flood prove that nature is a bad thing? can you see past your ideology long enough to ponder the positives that multiculturalism have brought us? how 'bout beer and pizza. rock and roll, even country music. science, medicine, religion. sure mistakes are made in the debate that is western culture, but if your afraid of mistakes then just lay there messing your diapers while the adults sort everything out.
What do you know about my ideology?
Hurricanes? Nature doesn't want to kill us, what kills us is what we don't know about nature. People often die in hurricanes because they don't know what storm surge means.
Assimilated immigrants have made wonderful contributions to our country. Yes. But if people refuse to assimilate, and if they congregate and isolate themselves, then the communities they live in suffer.
Am I provincial? No. A friend of mine married a woman from abroad, and I wrote a letter to the INS (I think) saying I've never seen a better match. One of my dear friends, Moussa, is from Mali and he lives in Paris. I have wonderful friends in Istanbul. If money isn't too tight I should be going to Nepal soon. I'm not an ugly-American, and I don't appreciate ugly-American-immigrants, who use our system of tolerance against us. Beyond communities suffering because of unassimilated immigrants, there is the issue of enemies of this nation using political correctness and multicultural tolerance to commit acts of asymmetrical warfare against innocent US civilians. That won't stand.
"...but if your afraid of mistakes then just lay there messing your diapers while the adults sort everything out". I'll just let that sit there bacause it speaks for itself.
"beer and pizza. rock and roll, even country music. science, medicine, religion."
You mistake American Culture for a culture where every one maintains their roots and separates themselves, as in Muslims and Mexicans. They demand separate and superior treatment.
Pizza was not created when Italian Americans, speaking Italian only and demanding minority special treatment, got their grandma's recipe out and made it per special Italian food rules. We had to go kick some true monoculturalists out of Italy to get pizza. Leading quite a few of the charges were the Japanese American soldiers who were Americans first in their own minds. You know, back when we had a melting pot which is the opposite of the special treatment MultiCult demands to keep peoples apart.
nice change of direction buddy... from wrong to ridiculous. maybe someone can enlighten me on this new tact, where does the bible say anything about color? the story of the tower of babel is one of god's ego vs. man's ego.
well, ibf, what story AIN'T about god's ego vs man's ego?
The 'blue' ref is in archaeological records. I hope I didn't mis-speak it was biblical. here's one ref off a quick URL search:
it's just a minor point of musing --that the UN is so obviously the new tower of babel. don't want to make too much of it --i shoulda shaddup after the first ref.
On my multicultural reality TV cooking show I’m gonna have two teams:
Orange Team: 3 Arab Islamofascist chefs and 3 Idaho white supremacist chefs.
Black Team: 3 Boston natives and 3 San Antonio natives who don’t cook much.
In the Elimination Challenge they have to work in a kitchen with the heat set to 140 degrees.
usually, Elimination Challenges are held in that other room that also has running water
I love what other cultures have brought to this country. My beef is that we have become a "hypenated" country.
I'm not German-American, or Norwegian-American, or Native American-American (even though this is where my history comes from.) I'm American. I can appreciate the great things in other cultures and celebrate them without distinguishing myself from others with a hyphen.
This country will never experience anything remotely close to "national unity" until we get to the point where people consider themselves "Americans", not hyphenated ones...
Agree totally Steve,
The hyphens need to go away if we want to have true equality that has not been synthesized through a "race" filter. So called African Americans would be much further ahead if they would stop segregating themselves with the "African American" conotation. My sense is that they are uncomfortable dropping the hyphen because they have used it to leverage their way through society pandering to those suffering from white guilt.
A note to the African American leadership: We get it...You were slaves once. But, think about this fact if you will. The Nazis destroyed somewhere around six million jews in WWII. That number is equal to all the slaves living in the south in 1865. Understand that many other people have had a tragic past to include the half-million who died in the civil war to end slavery. Please put it behind you...
Please, let's get a grip. The politically correct definition of diversity is not the natural mixing of races and cultures, into the informal and formal culture, economics and politics of the U.S. That is what the U.S. has been and will remain. But to make that kind of diversity work we need to encourage assimilation into the larger culture, which because of contributions from the new arrivals, will thereby be enriched. Assimilation is rejected by the pomo promoters of diversity. Peter Wood put it well in his book "Diversity," "diversilogues trade in the ideology of diversity; diversidacts teach it; diversicrats regulate it.... But for the sake of having one term for the whole tribe, I will write of 'diversiphiles' ... who elevate the ideal of diversity above the ideal of national unity." The productive and growing experiment that is multi-racial and ethnic U.S. will continue to founder as we encourage spurious claims to separate cultural identities and "rights" by the diversiphiles.
If it's leftish, and it still sounds bad in a wiki areticle, then, it's *bad*.
I can't play any more... Number one wife brought home sushi and 300 the movie. I'm going to eat raw fish and watch spartans deal with the new diversity.
Queen Gorgo: Freedom is not free, it requires great sacrifice. The price is paid in blood.
Great thread everyone. We have T-sirts in the lobby for sale. Just make checks out to Habu c/o Cayman Grand Bank.
$19.95 or if paying in cash $14.00+$5.00 handling charges.
One size, extra medium. One color, white.....but we are also providing a table of various colored felt tipped makers so you can express your feelings in your own way or draw whatever you want..I like to draw trains going into tunnels.
We ask that you do try to stay ON the t-shit with the felt tip.
Aslo we've scheduled a theraputic food fight for 11:30 PM EDST. Purell will be provided.
All this is being done for the children. All the food used in teh food fight will be donated to Second Harvest.
Thanks once again for your participation.
Whew. That was quite the blog-swarm. Who's going to clean up the mess?
Good night, Buddy. Turn out the lights when you're done.
No clean up necessary.
Contracted with Second Harvest to do the clean up and whatever scraps are left Michael Vick is bring'n over some dogs to fight over.
Hey Buddy...today's thread was a ripper , say hey.
Read some folks I hadn't read before and over all I think the input was OK ..we had one thing fur shur ...participation.
That's a great post! Love the Benetton ad as well.
Diversity lessons learned.
1. Multicultural Balance may lie somewhere between imposing commonality between the minions and unrestricted gang warfare.
2. A common language is good.
3. Somebody around here prefers to elimination to consumption.
I agree with you. A pox on diversity! Everyone should be the same. It's too distressing dealing with the different.
Yes, a straw man is wonderful. You can stuff it full of half-tuths, kick it in the shins and set it on fire. Now you can walk away with the satisfaction of knowing that you stood up for truth and justice, without, you know, getting too distressed dealing with the different. Hypocrite.
God knocked down the tower of Babel because of a lack of diversity. It's in the Bible. so anyone citing the Babel story as an argument against Diversity and Multiculturalism hasn't taken the time to read their citation.
As for the tower being blue, that doesn't seem to be in there either.
1 Now the whole world had one language and a common speech.
2 As men moved eastward, they found a plain in Shinar and settled there.
3 They said to each other, "Come, let's make bricks and bake them thoroughly." They used brick instead of stone, and tar for mortar.
4 Then they said, "Come, let us build ourselves a city, with a tower that reaches to the heavens, so that we may make a name for ourselves and not be scattered over the face of the whole earth."
5 But the LORD came down to see the city and the tower that the men were building.
6 The LORD said, "If as one people speaking the same language they have begun to do this, then nothing they plan to do will be impossible for them.
7 Come, let us go down and confuse their language so they will not understand each other."
8 So the LORD scattered them from there over all the earth, and they stopped building the city. 9 That is why it was called Babel [c] —because there the LORD confused the language of the whole world. From there the LORD scattered them over the face of the whole earth.
Is it a requirement to be scared of other cultures to be a Republican.
Being scared of Iraq and turning it into everything you said it was has to scare the Jesus out of you freaks.
No shame no humility.
The tower of babel story is just a fable. Just like most of the stories in the bible. See Adam and Eve.