Prostitution, anyone?

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Wednesday, May 2. 2007

When reading about the DC Madam who has essentially�outed thousands of clients by turning her records over to ABC News, I wonder whether prostitution should be illegal. (I used to think that the pill and the "sexual revolution" - if there was any such thing - would�render prostitution obsolete, but I guess not.)

I am not asserting that it should be legal (I tend to think not, but it is legal in Nevada, isn't it?)�- just wondering. What do y'all think?�

Posted by The Barrister in The Culture, "Culture," Pop Culture and Recreation at 06:19 | Comments (28) | Trackbacks (0)

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I came across a story about Denmark a few years ago, not only is prostitution legal but Nursing Homes can call in a few well seasoned vets for their charges. Male or female.
Holy Chocolate, so thats how they got socialized medicine passed!

#1 John on 2007-05-02 07:07 (Reply)

I saw that too. When you're 92 and drooling, with bedsores, it's not that easy to pick up chicks in bars. It's not really all that easy anyway.

#2 BD on 2007-05-02 07:11 (Reply)

The state of Nevada permits and regulates legal prostitution (VD checks, condoms required, etc...) Most of the cities and towns in NV, including Las Vegas, prohibit prostitution. This means that the legal bordellos are out in unincorporated areas in the middle of nowhere - which seems to be okay with everyone. (I used to live in Vegas)

#3 NJSoldier on 2007-05-02 07:30 (Reply)

That is another one for the "Too Hard" box.

But I can't help wondering if we stopped spending so much on stamping it out it would become less of a problem. (If fewer cops had that as their full-time concern, we would have few corrupt cops, for example.)

#4 Laurence F. Sheldon, Jr. on 2007-05-02 08:32 (Reply)

It should not be legal. With the possible exception of cleaning out a radiation spill, would there be any worse work for our darling daughters to go into? And why is it okay for anybody's daughters? Be consistent! Even if any girl grew up hoping and dreaming of sexually servicing sex addicts, perverts, adulterers and other animals who separate sex and love... If you want sex and aren't happily married, and you can't persuade some slutty female who thinks you're got to sleep with you, it's probably God's way of telling you that you should be doing somethin h different.

As for the old guys. In the nursing homes, they seem to be getting pretty lucky
for free [favorable ratio!]

#5 retriever on 2007-05-02 08:33 (Reply)

Blackberry typo: typed got when I meant hot!

#6 retriever on 2007-05-02 08:38 (Reply)

If your darling daughter is going to do prostitution she's going to do prostitution. We might as well make it legal, and let her live like a human being.

#7 Rufus on 2007-05-02 08:51 (Reply)

That is such an obvious thing, and yet nobody gets it.

If "we" decide 55 mph is fast enough, all we have to do is make it illegal to go faster, right?

Some much is like that. Tobacco, alcohol, Mexicans, heroin, cocaine, meth, ...

#7.1 Laurence F. Sheldon, Jr. on 2007-05-02 09:03 (Reply)

I tend to be somewhat libertarian on most issues and I do not usually worry too much about what grown ups do with their own money. However, I also do not ever want any young people believing that prostitution is just another 'career' choice.

I also think that ABC should not be publishing or broadcasting names from phone records. Couldn't a few of those on that phone list have dialed a wrong number? Try explaining that to your wife or girlfriend.

And IMHO, hiring an escort or a prostitute is a bit pathetic. Aren't most of us flattered by a little attention from others? Companionship is not that hard to come by if one is willing to make an effort, like asking. Getting shot down is painful but so is being alone all the time. Needing or preferring to pay for companionship and/or sex is not something I fully understand. Yet. (kidding! heh.)

#8 Patina on 2007-05-02 09:05 (Reply)

I thought it was her "trick book". And I say publish away--if we believe it is wrong.

But let me try to make my point clearer (got cardiac rehab and 2 acres of lawn to mow today--and I should stop at Walmart on the way back from rehab, so I can't spend the day trying to make my point like I did yesterday).

Let us play a "mind game" (a game of "what if" all in our heads with no external reality to get in the way).

Let us take as "given" that everybody that votes has agreed that all of the bad things I listed above should be illegal and that we should expend resources stamping them all out.

OK. "How much resources?" will be one of the questions to answer. "What shall we do with the perps?" Will the total amount of crime (as defined go up, or go down? Will we have new problems, like cop corruption?

In short, how will we avoid what happened with the Volstead Act? With the "War on Crime"? The "War on Poverty"?

Remember now, in this branch of the thread, no discussion as to whether the list of things are actually bad or not, just discussion about what happens when we have made them all illegal. How much better a place will we have?

#9 Laurence F. Sheldon, Jr. on 2007-05-02 09:23 (Reply)

Isn't part of the issue that, in a secular world, to make something legal gives the appearance of morally condoning it?

Many immoral things are legal.

On the other hand, our laws ought to reflect our moral views - or why have them?

#10 BD on 2007-05-02 09:28 (Reply)

OK--I agreed. All the bad stuff is now illegal and our moral values are universally crystal clear.

Now what?

#10.1 Laurence F. Sheldon, Jr. on 2007-05-02 11:59 (Reply)

I agree BD. Our laws should reflect our moral views. And so should our streets. Streets full of prowling prostitutes and their johns is not a pretty sight. Check out East Vancouver, where the cities elite have given the police the go ahead to contain and ignore many of the illegal activities that are often deemed 'victimless' in that one section of the city, right next to Chinatown. If that were my neighborhood I would be furious. Also, I think we do not usually make things legal. We do make them illegal.

#11 Patina on 2007-05-02 09:46 (Reply)

Too much work today to do more then send best wishes to LS for a speedy. recovery. Will pray that all that dreary medical advice and endless rehab makes you feel right as rain. Being outdoors is my best therapy!

#12 retriever on 2007-05-02 09:49 (Reply)

Thanks for the wishes.

I'm starting to get bad into shape a little bit (I've actually been lucky. no heart attack, no cardiac surgery).

But I don't much enjoy working for the fun of it. Even (or especially?) when I can see that is good for me.

Wife is out of town, so I get the rare treat of mowing 2 acres of lawn. 'Ray!

But I'll have to go back into town to get some gasoline, now that the bank is open.

#12.1 Laurence F. Sheldon, Jr. on 2007-05-02 12:04 (Reply)

Typo's typo's.

I swear I looked at all of that before I launched it.

Well, that's my story and I'm sticking to it.

"... starting to get baCK into shape..."

#12.1.1 Laurence F. Sheldon, Jr. on 2007-05-02 12:27 (Reply)

What is it about cults? I am not speaking about those that are organized and wave a flag, or a logo. Rather, I am talking about the process. Young people with an anger they wish to demonstrate to their parents. Usually, this anger is made visible by "the act". It does not matter what act the young person chooses, but usually it does revolve around sex. Once having committed the "offensive action", the young person is now truly vulnerable. NOW, they can be preyed upon by those, who live in a community built upon that act. In the discussion of prostitiuion--now the young rebel is prey to those "who are the same". People, who will make them feel good about "the action", they have committed in a moment of weakness. An action that is against all those who love them, and those who have provided their moral foundation. For a classic, perfect, step by step demonstration of this process, please view again the last film in the Star Wars series. It is textbook example of the break down of an individual's resistance to evil. How, one strong person uses rhetoric to recruit, to distance, etc. That is why "prostitution" should neve be legalized. It creates a community of abused, and vulnerable.

#13 apple pie on 2007-05-02 10:21 (Reply)

Very true apple pie. Your argument is most convincing. And for a really disturbing example of this cult like behavior, just google Robert Pickton. The problem is that what was happening there was all illegal.

#14 Patina on 2007-05-02 10:46 (Reply)

Agree w AP. Show me a prostitute who you believe freely and happily chose it from many attractive options and I have a bridge I'd like to show you...

#15 retriever on 2007-05-02 11:24 (Reply)

I notice a recurring thread in several of the posts, that no girl would pick this as a career willingly. That all prostitutes are forced by bad choices or abusive pimps into the "life".

Over the years I've heard and read many a tale,and have believed most of them to be sincere, that some women do have their own reasons to become a working girl. Should I judge? Should we dismiss free will?

Do welfare mothers chose that as a career as young girls? Should being a welfare mother who pumps out one baby after another be made illegal?

I've never seen the difference between prostitution and Porn, is there? Yet Porn is a huge business in this country. It seems that todays porn stars regularly do things that most prostitutes would refuse to do. One's legal, why not the other?

Some of our schools graduate young men and women with zero employable skills, they can't all work at McDonald's.

What if Cho had found a legal cat house next to the gun store and spend his money in there instead?

Barrister, you asked for our thoughts. Just thinking.

#16 John on 2007-05-02 12:56 (Reply)

John:

Of course they do it of free will. And outside of politics, it's the highest-paid unskilled work going.

But, on further thought - it is being a ho really unskilled? One might hope to imagine that they would be highly skilled.

#16.1 The Barrister on 2007-05-02 13:24 (Reply)

Barrister, you are sure they do it of their own free will--obviously a lot of other guys do too,or they couldn't live with themselves? They would feel like exploiters and rapists, and noone wants to feel like one of those.

Interesting that it's the women against it, and the men either for or diplomatically neutral. Hmmm... I'd be willing to bet that none of the females is ugly, a man-hater or so witholding that our men are "driven" to frequent hookers. Perhaps we are upset about other women living under such conditions? Or boys? I have less stake in believing they want "the life". What decent man could have sex with someone unless he believed their faked enthusiasm?

I have worked with kids whose mothers sold them sexually to supply the mother's drug habits, and I have friends who were prostitutes to support drug habits and there was no free choice involved except the courage to stop, recover, make a new life, and pray they don't bump into an old john.

Okay I admit this: I cannot understand why anyone would want to have sex for money.Feel they had no other choice, maybe. Some realizing belatedly that they could get out. Maybe I am just unimaginative and the Happy Hooker really exists..

#17 retriever on 2007-05-02 14:48 (Reply)

Happy hookers? Maybe a few in a twisted, wry way. Perhaps even a .2% are true hard-to-satisfy nymphos.

But the VAST majority of them have been sexually or otherwise abused at a young age. The "willing" exchange of $ for services between two adults* is just a never-ending repeat coda to the original bad stuff, with johns neither knowing nor caring as to the why a girl/ woman is hooking. Life's tough, and we should be able to buy satisfaction from another's past abuse or current addiction, I guess, most of whom give their earnings to pimps or a good share to madams, currently. Legalizing prostitution would help a gov profit by taxing cash-basis sex and help johns by requiring a bit more (still inadequate) health certification of legitimately employed females selling their orificial goodness. Get AIDS from a hooker with gov approval? Too bad

*young teen desperate stupid abused or addicted run-aways, too

#18 Anonymous on 2007-05-02 15:18 (Reply)

Of course, there are always nice college girls just trying "to make ends meet"---

#19 Anonymous on 2007-05-02 15:33 (Reply)

Agree w anonymous.

#20 retriever on 2007-05-02 15:40 (Reply)

I'll have to leave it to the experts, I know pretty much nothing about prostitutes of the sort we are talking about here. Not sure I have said a dozen words to the lot is 3 score and 8, that I know of. (I've known some folk in the business world that could probably be properly called that, but I've had as little to do with them as possible.

But there are some unanswered questions back there a ways.

#21 Laurence F. Sheldon, Jr. on 2007-05-02 17:01 (Reply)

Well dang! I was sure we would get this one solved today.

And I didn't even get the lawn mowed. (Got about half of it done.)

Have to see if I can score some more gasoline on the way home from the Rotary meeting.

Wonder what in the world possessed me to get active in something that does breakfast meetings. There was a day when if I needed to be up at 0530, I stayed up until then.

#22 Laurence F. Sheldon, Jr. on 2007-05-02 22:22 (Reply)

None of us can solve this problem. But these links suggest that there is Someone who wants it solved.

http://www.covchurch.org/companion/articles/2005-october-a-politically-incorrect-reformer About an amazing female Indian Christian missionary late 19th century who rescued female babies from infanticide, prostitutes, widows at risk for suttee, etc

http://www.internationalministries.org/updates/LivingHopeVideo.htm a current international evangelical ministry to prostitutes

http://www.laurieishii.com/?p=145 A female missionary's draft tracts for outreach to prostitutes. You'd have to have a heart of stone not to be moved...

#23 retriever on 2007-05-02 23:45 (Reply)

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Wednesday, May 2. 2007

Prostitution, anyone?