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Tuesday, January 25. 2022

Music: Live music is best, very high-end systems are a poor second, ordinary sound systems third, and anything else is so compressed that it is only suited for background sound.

Yes, I do have a vinyl collection but they are so inconvenient. I have a ton of CDs and one serious system. Another not perfect in the bedroom.

The guy below makes a remarkable system - which of course cannot be appreciated through your computer. For the price of his machines you could go to great live music daily for a couple of lifetimes.

What's your opinion?

Posted by The Barrister in The Culture, "Culture," Pop Culture and Recreation at 13:08 | Comments (18) | Trackbacks (0)

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This is related to my pet peeve. TV audio. The new TV's are flat screen and there is no place to put a decent speaker. In many cases it is hard to understand what is said simply because the range of frequencies is so small that mush is missed.

The second part of that pet peeve is that for some reason the audio people who put background music on all drama shows on TV. Sometimes the music is actually louder than the spoken word. Other times the audio is some consistent irritating sound that when put through the tinny speakers of the flat screen TV seem intended to turn you into a screaming Frankenstein. The only option is to turn the volume down so far that you can not hear that sound and of course you cannot hear the dialogue either.

I have to wonder if these "experts" in audio have a clue?

#1 OneGuy on 2022-01-25 13:17 (Reply)

Actually the speakers in modern TVs are quite good. The dialogue in television and movies has gotten unintelligible by by design, by director choice and by poorly skilled actors.

QUOTE:

"There are a number of root causes," says Mark Mangini, the Academy Award-winning sound designer behind films like "Mad Max: Fury Road" and "Blade Runner 2049." "It's really a gumbo, an accumulation of problems that have been exacerbated over the last 10 years ... that's kind of this time span where all of us in the filmmaking community are noticing that dialogue is harder and harder to understand."

#1.1 JK Brown on 2022-01-25 19:58 (Reply)

Which is why the printed contemporaneous audio text at the bottom of the screen is invaluable these days on video presentations. Not so much those programs with floating text bubbles in the middle of the screen or those with someone typing frantically 3 to 10 words behind.

#1.1.1 sch on 2022-01-26 12:07 (Reply)

In my youth, a massive investment in high end audio equipment was necessary to woo the girls and impress the guys. I outgrew it all after college when the world offered different pursuits and charms.

#2 LB1901 (Link) on 2022-01-25 14:15 (Reply)

The claim that 95% of the information is gone, do to compression, is just not correct. If that was true, the mp3 would have disappeared a long time ago. Most of us went from vinyl to cd, to mp3. We wouldn’t of made those purchases if 90% of the sound disappeared.

When he discussed the sound wave being as big as we are, that is mostly due to amplification. Did you notice the huge tube amplifiers? There is another argument from the audiophiles, it has to be tubes, man. Those silicon transistors don’t cut it.

I listen to most of my music on twenty dollar desktop speakers, or earbuds. It suits me just fine. I have over 8,000 songs, all recorded from my vast cd collection, on my OneDrive; my music goes with everywhere I go - as long as there is internet.

Now if I had a magnificent listening room, such as what that video showed, and had many thousands of dollars to spend on music, well I might be tempted to purchase more expensive equipment.

#3 B. Hammer on 2022-01-25 16:14 (Reply)

The audio industry is like the education business. Always reinventing itself and still delivering the same results. Gotta have a gimmick to justify the insane prices.

You want perfect sound? Go to a live performance (as you pointed out) and hope your neighbor is not unwrapping candy or coughing.

By the time you can afford this outrageously expensive stuff, your hearing has deteriorated so much that you can't hear the difference...

PS: A pair of their Imperia 'horn' speakers is only $280,000
https://www.whathifi.com/news/oswalds-mill-audio-imperia-280000-horn-speaker

My advice? Buy a nice pair of headphones and save a pile of $$$

#4 Earl Wertheimer on 2022-01-25 16:36 (Reply)

Shoot a shotgun enough back in the olden pre-hearing protection days or some time spent in the Phil Zone and high end systems are beside the point.

Stream SirrusXM mostly thru the tv to some Onkyos at home (or play c/ds) and one of the trucks has a decent system. Partial to c/ds or mp3 saved to flashdrives as no connection required and still have 3 ipods that work but tunes frozen as gave up on itunes years ago.

Don't always have a cell signal around these parts and/or some places we go.

#5 slm on 2022-01-25 17:14 (Reply)

Live performances of crackerjack ensembles for very small audiences are the best, because every once so often you witness something transcendent..... But how often does that happen? Even if it's a very good orchestra, you're still stuck with all the hacking & coughing from the lungers, not to mention the knuckleheads who can't stop with their inconsiderate yammering.

High-quality studio recordings that have been post-produced with talented track mixers are better, in my opinion. In these cases, the musicians have been put together with an intent, and the sound production is commensurate, and you can soak yourself in the sound, enjoying the performance in comfortable surroundings.

TV and movies, don't get me started, Geez. It used to be music was crafted to float you along on the waves and emotional currents of the story. Nowadays, music is used like a cudgel mixed in with shock-tactic sound effects. Instead of indulging your senses, you're getting beaten up with ruthless efficiency by the experts.

#6 Aggie on 2022-01-25 17:57 (Reply)

Meh. I still love music on AM when I can find it. Sure, all the high-end audio is fun, but ultimately it's just guys doing their gear-masturbation thing (IMHO.)

It's the music that matters. Makes me feel good no matter how it gets to my ears, and thence my soul.

If it takes pure sound rendered through specialized equipment to get your toes tapping, maybe the problem isn't in your hi-fi.

#7 Nonna Mouse on 2022-01-25 17:58 (Reply)

I was an audiophile in college and acquired the best equipment I could afford. (I never did acquires those Klipsh Horns, though.) I still have most of that 70s stuff but, what I didn't realize was that someday I would get old. My hearing now rolls off at 5Khz so why do I need tweeters?

#8 snopercod on 2022-01-25 20:00 (Reply)

My comment as well. I can remember hearing an early Enya recording at the defunct audiophile place in the 70s and there was a bass note I had never heard before and wasn't present on my home system. But realistically that audiophile setup was 5x the cost of my entire home system just for one speaker. And then you had to tune your listening room. These days most of my listening is in the car, hard to find a worse environment for music and particularly classical music with its wide dynamic ranges.

#8.1 sch on 2022-01-26 12:13 (Reply)

I assume accuracy is what defines a high-end system?

If so, then player-piano versions of all instruments played would be the most accurate way to reproduce music.

But what's accurate about reproducing the "sound" of a guitar string that has been amplified and intentionally distorted and then re-amplified?

Are we looking to accurately reproduce a sound that was once produced in the most identical way, or are we looking to engineer a new pleasing sound that is a new product of electronic synthesis and distortion?

If it's the latter, then we also have to ask - for which audience? Like others above, producing sounds that are pleasing to my tinnitus-and-frequency-gapped ears would not likely satisfy someone with perfect hearing.

So I think that accuracy in reproducing what was once produced is probably the best measure of "high end." Which means, again, true models of all instruments used, played again electronically. But voices . . .

#9 bobby b on 2022-01-26 00:12 (Reply)

In 1973, I purchased a McIntosh MX 113 Tuner-preamp, a MC 2205 Amp and JBL-200 Studio Monitors. I still have them, and they still sound great, despite my ears having lost several steps. I suspect my brain is doing most of the hearing now. If you have the money and want to spend it, go ahead.

#10 Lord Whorfin on 2022-01-26 08:15 (Reply)

This guy has a bad case of Audiophileitis. These days the main symptom is demonstrated by making excuses why anyone would need to spend 1000$ for speaker wire.
Don't get me wrong, quality equipment is essential for a high end audio experience. I have a an upgraded dynaco tube power amp, a very high end marantz preamp, and a high end Dual (1229) turntable with a 200$ cart. All driving a custom pair of base reflex speakers with cerwin vega horn tweeters salvaged from a skateing rink. very smooth. As an Electrical Engineer it's all about bang for the buck.
The problem with "High fidelity" is the weak link in the chain. All the techno tweaking in the world won't compensate for the recording equipment used to create the source material, and the variations in taste and ability of the recording engineer.
I have been a bassoonist for longer that I care to admit, which means thousands of hours perched in the middle of a symphony orchestra. That informal acoustic training ( I know what live music unaltered by electronics sounds like), coupled with my parents signing up for Colombia record club (10 records for 1 cent!) and getting the record of the month for years,means that I have listened to hundreds of recordings, and can often recognized the studio they were made in. The highest quality recordings are artifacts that I treasure.
Be that as it may, the limitations of MP3s are quite evident. listen to an mp3, even reproduced with a decent sound system, and compare to a record or CD of the same song, and the difference is instantly obvious. Cds are almost as bad. The parameters chosen for compact disks were basically a minimum compromise, with the 40 KHz sample rate and 16 bit samples the bare minimum for decent perception. With modern systems, you can get 24 bit digital recordings of the same source material, and the differences are again immediately evident. Lossless compressed music formats are available (I prefer FLACC), but ultimately suffer from the same limitations.
Some people blame the walkman, followed by the ipod etc. etc. I blame the cassette tape: The original quality vs. convenience audio storage device. (The 45 RPM record was actually BETTER than the LP)
People are happy with what they are used to, simply because they don't know any better. I admit it's hard to carry your high end stereo when you are out jogging.

#11 Antisocial Media on 2022-01-26 08:50 (Reply)

My personal experience was that about ⅓ of the vinyl discs I bought has noticeable defects. Lot's of imbedded paper in the tracks, etc. Capitol was by far the worst offender. Overall, CD's were an improvement in sound quality.

Now I admit that Deutsche Grammophon made superb vinyl and still does. But my interests extend beyond their catalog.

Moreover, it appears from searches on the web that a good quality turn table, amp, speaker system will set you back well over $1,000.

#12 bob sykes (Link) on 2022-01-26 08:53 (Reply)

My big Legacy speakers cost me $5000 20 years ago. I have an old Denon turntable.

All good.

#12.1 the B on 2022-01-26 12:54 (Reply)

Lost the top end and bottom end of hearing after a tour in the military but still love to listen to the Piano Guys version of Beethoven.

#13 indyjonesouthere on 2022-01-26 13:14 (Reply)

Interesting dude. Cool looking gear, too. I applaud his mission — music as it has gotten more portable and convenient has lost some of its power and magic.

It would be fun to transport one of my sons back in time to the 70s-80s at one of the many parties I had or attended with big, loud, clear, low-bass speakers playing great music … hardly anyone 40 has ever had that experience, I’ll bet, and that’s unfortunate.

#14 Jeff Brokaw (Link) on 2022-01-28 15:22 (Reply)

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Tuesday, January 25. 2022

Good sound