Another Maggie's Scientificalistical Survey: Neckties

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Thursday, April 25. 2024

Another Maggie's Scientificalistical Survey: Neckties

As an old-time fuddy-duddy I guess, I have always thought these were the only things in a man's wardrobe that would provide some color or interest.

JFK helped eliminate mens' hats by never wearing them, but hats were already going out at the time. Now we're at baseball caps instead of fedoras.

What about our male readers? Women love scarves, and a tie is sort-of the same idea. Nice private schools - and charter schools, still require semi-formal dress or uniforms. It works, from the outside in.

I am reposting this qestion because, as in church generally, I wore a tie at my father-in-law's funeral service a few weeks ago with my new dark blue suit. I'd guess half of the guys wore a tie. Very few guys wore a suit.

How often do you guys put on a tie? Church, work, theater, nice restaurant, weddings, funerals, etc?

Posted by The Barrister in The Culture, "Culture," Pop Culture and Recreation at 14:42 | Comments (50) | Trackbacks (0)

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Nowadays, I use a tie to subliminally impart respect. So for non-formalwear situations that usually includes family events such as Mother's/Fathers Day, anniversaries, Christmas, Thanksgiving, Easter and, of course, funerals......

#1 spike on 2022-01-23 13:54 (Reply)

Rarely, but always a double windsor when I do...

#2 The Distributist on 2022-01-23 14:02 (Reply)

I remember it was about 1976 or thereabouts on the David Frost show. Frost did an interview with Richard Nixon which was the first one since the Watergate scandal and his resignation. In the course of the interview, the subject turned to Nixon's visit to China. Frost asked Nixon what he thought about the Chinese. I remember Nixon answered: "Any society that can eliminate the necktie can't be all bad."

Nixon has been one of my heroes since that day.

(I hate neckties. I will avoid them completely unless absolutely necessary - funerals and weddings if I am part of the wedding party. I put in my will that I am NOT to be buried in one.)

#3 Roy on 2022-01-23 14:03 (Reply)

I gave away my ties and suits when I retired. Hope to never wear them again. I do wear a hat to keep the sun off me.

#4 OneGuy on 2022-01-23 14:09 (Reply)

The only times I remember wearing a tie are job interviews and weddings. Maybe 5 or 6 times in my adult life. When I was a kid I wore a clip-on for Easter or Christmas mass.

#5 Dark on 2022-01-23 14:37 (Reply)

I'm 35.

#5.1 Dark on 2022-01-23 14:42 (Reply)

I have long wondered why ties are a part of men's fashions. They serve no useful purpose and are highly uncomfortable.

I can't remember when I wore a tie last, or even if i still own one.

I never intend to put another one on and if an occaision requires one, then I won't be in attendance.

A tie has to be the dumbest men's fashion accoutrement ever.

#6 feeblemind on 2022-01-23 14:58 (Reply)

I'm fine with wearing a tie. Theatre, fine dining, church. My very beautiful wife always looks her best. What am I saying to her and about her if I don't.

I attended Mass today in a Minnesota small town Roman Catholic church. Farming community. This was the very old traditional Latin Mass. Very beautiful.

Many of the men and boys wore suits/sport coats and ties. As it was when I was growing up in the '50's and early '60's.

Many of the women wore hair coverings.

Elsewhere around here, many men, even when out with their wives, dress like their next job, or last, is cleaning the garage.

#7 Snowgoose on 2022-01-23 15:51 (Reply)

My church in Washington, DC is located next to Catholic University. We have a 2 pm Traditional Latin Mass on Sunday. Most of the attendees are students from the university. Just about every man at the Mass will be wearing either a suit and tie, or a sport coat and tie. Just about every woman will be wearing a dress or skirt and a head covering. These are mostly college-age students.

During other Masses, the older people tend to dress in their "Sunday Best." The younger folks tend to "come as you are," which means a lot of them look like they just got out of bed after a rough night.

I'm old school. I still put on a coat and tie for Sunday Mass. There are other times where I would never go without a tie too: the symphony, the theater...I had on a sport coat and tie one time at the National Gallery in Washington, DC. A lady, about age 45 came up to me and said, "It's nice to see a man who still knows how to dress for an art museum."

When I was a kid growing up in Connecticut in the 1950s/60s, if you went out after 6 pm to the movies, theater, restaurants, or just about anything else not involving sports, you put on a coat and tie. Then again, look at all those pictures of people attending baseball games in the 1940s/50s. Just about all the men at the ball park are in suits. Times have changed, and not for the better in my opinion.

#7.1 Chip Clemmer on 2022-01-25 07:37 (Reply)

I remember the little lace doily things. All the girls got white ones in a little pouches at our First Communion. (This was different from the veil all us girls wore.) I remember the longer lace ones adult women wore, instead of an actual hat. (Though a lot of women did wear hats.) Even before my first communion, I had to wear a hat. The elastic band ate into flesh at my ears. I hated it. We also had to wear gloves. They weren't too bad to wear.

#7.2 Lee Also on 2024-04-25 19:44 (Reply)

When I started doing computer programming in the Midwest about 1982 it was still customary to wear a shirt and tie to the office, though suits or sport coats were becoming uncommon among younger line staff. Casual Fridays started later in the decade. Shirts and ties were gone by about 2000, and about 2015 or so we went all casual dress.

I still wear a shirt and tie to church, and for date night, and a suit or at least sport coat on more formal occasions.

#8 Christopher B on 2022-01-23 16:06 (Reply)

I wear a tie as often as I can, which is pretty much weddings and funerals.
A fashion expert once wrote, "A man in a suit and tie is telling the room, "I am here to talk, not fight"." That is nice message for this day and age.

#9 Harmon Ward on 2022-01-23 16:31 (Reply)

I stopped wearing ties to work many years ago mainly because I was getting sick and tired of hearing other people commenting on them! ("what are you wearing a tie for?" "Oh, it looks like someone has a job interview today?" "trying to impress the boss?" etc.)

My closet still has dozens of ties in all colors and styles. I sort of miss wearing them as I feel more "dressed up" when I do. But, I can do without the snippy comments at work.

Also, to those who say that ties are uncomfortable - it isn't the tie, it is your top shirt button! Most likely you are wearing a shirt that the top button is NOT for your neck size; it is too small. The top button when button, and therefore the tie, should not feel like it is choking you. If it does feel like it is choking you then it is too small and you need a shirt with a bigger neck size.

As for COVID eliminating the necktie; well, ties should be cleaned more often than many people did in the past. Prior to COVID many healthcare professionals did away with the tie since they were not cleaned between wearings and could become a "germ cloth" tied around one's neck to spread disease.

#10 charles on 2022-01-23 16:47 (Reply)

When I first started teaching at my college, my supervisor required all of us guys to wear ties every day. After he retired, we stopped doing it. I can't say I miss it. The ties always seemed to either be choking me or too loose.

I understand the fashion statement. I just don't feel the need to make it any more.

#11 Dangerous Dean on 2022-01-23 16:48 (Reply)

When I was working in Indonesia, the department stores there had the most beautiful silk ties. Patterns both in the vibrant colors that were chosen and woven in, but also a different set of patterns that were installed as part of the weave (geometrical ones). I just couldn't resist buying one or two every week, as they were pretty cheap then, too. And over there, I was wearing one most every work day.

I don't wear them much anymore, occasions when a suit or lounge coat is called for, but I also bemoan the slob culture. It says so much about a person that shows up in skateboarder shorts and flip flops. Unserious.

#12 Aggie on 2022-01-23 17:59 (Reply)

As a banker just about everyday except for August in Houston, Texas. I'm also prior service, if you're serious, wear the uniform correctly. I guess it's similar to the "make your bed every day" theme. Years ago I had a client in Florida. The owner began his career with GE. Being Florida, most of our clients dressed casually. He always loved our quarterly visits as he enjoyed putting on his GE uniform for events other than funerals.

#13 Tony on 2022-01-23 18:35 (Reply)

Weddings and funerals. Sportcoat at reunions and other functions of older people. I enjoy doing that on those occasions and wouldn't mind there being more types of occasions when it is appropriate. But there aren't. In a different culture it might fit better, but I do find it a touch rude to overdress, as well as underdress. People feel put down, or that you are putting on airs. Perhaps they shouldn't but they do, and I see no need to repeat offend when I know that.

I wear a gray wool sportscoat when traveling, and sometimes when I sing with the choir white shirt and specific color tie (no jacket) is required.

#14 Assistant Village Idiot on 2022-01-23 18:50 (Reply)

I asked an old timer way back when what the tie represents. He said the penis. I don’t know about that but when I’m in the court room I feel over dressed these days in a tie. Most of the others aren’t dressed that well. So I try to match the market.

#15 Jon in Illinois on 2022-01-23 19:06 (Reply)

I hate to think what he might say about bow ties.

#15.1 Aggie on 2022-01-24 09:36 (Reply)

To Mass, when I'm serving (otherwise long sleeve button down Oxfords, which I wear to work most days). I find a well fitting shirt comfortable, and besides, I need a pocket for my reading glasses. I went to a memorial service for a 30ish year old (drug OD death) last month and the parents and family were dressed up well enough to go to Wal Mart. Two weeks later I didn't wear a suit and tie for a retired fighter pilot friend of mine (I was off work that day and was running late), and I was about the only male not wearing a tie, or at least suit jacket. Ooops. I'd prefer to be overdressed than under dressed.

#16 Mark on 2022-01-23 19:18 (Reply)

An old hillbilly acquaintance always said ties were required for the management types in order to restrict the flow of oxygen to the brain which allows that mindset to flourish.

Other than a few bolos, haven't owned a tie in decades.

#17 slm on 2022-01-23 20:06 (Reply)

I've taken to wearing a cravat, also called an "Ascot". I like keeping my neck warn, and my neck is not great to look at anyway. A bit of color and a fun print liven things up without constriction or a tie flapping about. It helps to be older and have a trimmed grey beard; that completes the look

#18 Jay (Link) on 2022-01-23 21:30 (Reply)

I haven't worn a necktie in at least 15 years. I still HAVE some, but only because I can't bear to throw them away.

#19 Ken Mitchell on 2022-01-23 23:13 (Reply)

In the early 2000s, I was waiting in Departure for my civvie flight back from a RIMPAC (I was navy PA LCDR), Honolulu to Vancouver. As usual, I was travelling in my black gunslinger squared off jacket, white shirt, RCN tie. There were maybe 300 pax waiting. An airline ground staff approached and asked me to come with her. We got to her desk and she asked if it would be okay if they upgraded me to First. It's a 7 hour flight. I said okay. I boarded and was enveloped in the champagne fueled luxury of a brand new 747-400. Personal sony player. Hors d'oeuvres. Steak. Drambuie. Etc. (And a date with the stew couple of weeks later. Longer story). Anyway, I happened to ask her why I was selected out of the 300 for the upgrade. She said out of all the male half of the 300 in departure (I dunno why just guys), I was the only one in a jacket and tie. She said the people who were actually paying the 3+ grand for their seats wouldn't want some dude in surfer shorts, Hawaiian shirt and flip-flops in the lazy-boy next to them. I fit in (then and later). I never travelled without that jacket and tie again.

#20 Charles Brown on 2022-01-23 23:35 (Reply)

Good decision.

At the same time, it's nice to be comfortable on over 7-hr. flights.

I am torn between the options.

#20.1 Bird Dog on 2022-01-24 07:45 (Reply)

Unlike Charles Brown, I've never been upgraded to first class, but I have found that if you wear at least a sport coat with an open collar shirt and slacks, and yes I will occasionally fly in coat and tie, you do get better treatment by both cabin crews, and the TSA agents at the security check.

#20.1.1 Chip Clemmer on 2022-01-25 08:51 (Reply)

It's the same for women. If you dress nicely you get much better treatment. People open doors for you! I live in Maine so don't really dress up a whole lot, but when I do I really notice the difference.

#20.1.1.1 LP on 2024-04-25 16:03 (Reply)

I'm in the Midwest. Pre-Covid, my office "uniform" was a button-down oxford shirt, tie, and wool/wool-blend trousers. I kept a jacket on a hanger in case I was meeting with heavy-hitters. Covid seemed to signal a move to less-formal attire, so I ditched the tie but kept a couple with the jacket. I retired last year and still have a dozen ties for weddings, funerals, Mass, etc. I was in New Mexico before moving to the Midwest and there was a strict no-tie protocol observed almost everywhere.

#21 pilsnerfan (Link) on 2022-01-24 08:53 (Reply)

Church, weddings, court appearances, nice restaurants, funerals, teaching, all out of respect for the event and situation

#22 Doctor B on 2022-01-24 10:14 (Reply)

I always wore a tie when I was in engineering. It sends the message that "I am a professional" (this requires additional backup of course, but it's a good start). I had quite a collection from the assertive, to the serious, and a couple of really nasty-looking ones that I'd wear if I was having a bad attitude day or expected a meeting with someone I didn't like.

Since I retired, never so far, but somebody has to die sometime so I still have them in the closet.

BTW when I was in HS there was a jacket-and-tie dress code. Being that age I resented this, but my brother had a friend who liked to buy ties in thrift shops. We had a big collection of 4- and 5-inch wide beauties from the '40s and '50s. I was able to be in technical compliance with the policy while still feeling like I was thumbing my nose at them. Wide ties are overdue for a comeback IMO.

#23 Hairless Joe on 2022-01-24 10:46 (Reply)

I wear a tie every weekend for church and some weekday meetings as well. I'm comfortable with wearing them and echo the earlier sentiment that you definitely need to make sure the neck size of your shirt fits your neck so it doesn't feel too constraining.

I believe you should always wear one for a job interview, as it shows respect and professionalism.

My engineering firm moved away from ties before I got there, though we'd still wear them for meetings with certain clients or if we were speaking at a conference.

I believe ties were originally there to protect our shirts from stains. Now, ties are often more expensive than the shirts, so that reversal makes it tougher to use that as a reason to wear one.

Personally, I like the way a man looks in a shirt and tie. I think it's classy. I've heard a number of women say they like how classy it looks, too, so that's another incentive to wear one from time to time.

#24 Willard on 2022-01-24 11:45 (Reply)

I wear them to work every day. Even when no one else is in our offices (or I see no one else).

I like dressing like a grown up.

#25 DrTorch (Link) on 2022-01-24 12:02 (Reply)

A beautiful tie draws attention to your face, which facilitates better communication. A woman does that with earrings.

#26 HH on 2022-01-24 15:09 (Reply)

sidewalk snowplow operators don't have much need.. but for funerals etc, and for fun dress up, I've got a few. Maybe wear a tie 3 times a year.

#27 Toronto on 2022-01-24 17:26 (Reply)

I quit wearing a tie to work back in the 90's when the boss questioned me - and another fellow - who wore them occasionally. That was fine with me. As an engineer, as another coworker put it, they pay us for what we know, not how we look. That being said, I find that in retirement I am dressing up more than I used to, when going out or traveling. Not to the extent of a tie, or suit, though. My one suit is an all purpose funeral/wedding/cruise ship formal night suit.

I must be an old fuddy duddy though, because the folks wearing baseball caps indoors, both male and female, bug me. Looks really low class IMHO.

#28 Pod Hamp on 2022-01-24 17:52 (Reply)

In my field It’s like “suiting up for the game” - part of being ready.

#29 Louis Miller on 2022-01-24 20:37 (Reply)

A bow tie at every opportunity. It’s subversive.

#30 ExERdoc on 2022-01-26 17:04 (Reply)

I wore a tie and herringbone sportscoat to a funeral several months ago. The son of the deceased wore a sweater- no tie.

I like the appearance of ties.

#31 Gringo on 2024-04-25 15:09 (Reply)

When I started teaching college almost 30 years ago, my dean demanded that I wear a tie every day and he wanted me to wear a full suit. His reasoning was that though some college profs wear casual clothes, I looked younger back then than some of my 18 year old students. So I grudgingly wore a tie every day.

After he retired, there was enough faculty pushback that we won the right to wear dress shirts and slacks but we weren't required to wear ties any more.

I am a deacon at my Baptist church in my hometown. Since we minister to a working class small town, we don't stand on ceremony and most of us don't wear ties or suits. You are welcome to do it if you want. And we discourage revealing or ripped clothes unless it is literally all you have (if that were your situation, we would help you find something modest and in good repair so that you can feel more at accepted).

For the record, I think ties are classy. But after years of getting less oxygen to my brain for the sake of appearances, I pass on them most of the time.

#32 Dangerous Dean on 2024-04-25 15:16 (Reply)

I'm an old-timer so I have a loaded tie rack in my closet. Rarely wear a tie now, but I believe every tie on that rack has a story...and if you had time, I could tell it to you.
My Dad taught me how to tie a Windsor knot...so there is a memory there too.

#33 rocdoctom on 2024-04-25 15:45 (Reply)

Back in my university teaching days, casual attire was OK for classroom lectures and everyday business, but I was sure to wear suit and tie for awards ceremonies and presentations to visitors or continuing ed students (usually corporate types).

Now I'm retired, my personal lodestar is simple: anywhere I would have worn dress blues while on active duty merits suit and tie in civilian dress. So weddings, funerals, quincineras, christenings, and, of course, church services. But I'm a sucker for fancy dress; why else would I own a tuxedo?

#34 Mike Anderson (Link) on 2024-04-25 15:45 (Reply)

78 yr old male here & for me it's a necktie at church, weddings, & funerals.

No whimsy or "seasonal" themes, either. Solids, stripes, a couple of amoebas for variety. Also, I usually match the tie with a solid color pocket handkerchief that picks up some of the tie's color.

Plus, I think Tom Watson's white shirt edict is gospel!

#35 HMD on 2024-04-25 16:44 (Reply)

Until I retired it was: work, church, weddings, & funerals. I have a couple of silly Christmas (non-religious) ties that I will wear on Christmas Day.

#36 steve walsh on 2024-04-25 18:07 (Reply)

All those listed. Plus anything else I think is important. I used the wear a coat and tie when I taught law, and I explained to my students each year that I dressed that way not to show that I thought I was important, but to show that I believed they were.

#37 John on 2024-04-25 18:42 (Reply)

I have at least 75 ties in a wide variety of themes, colors and styles. Love dressing well, wearing a crisp white shirt and tie that brings the tone altogether.

Sometimes I even wear Jerry Garcia ties with jeans and casual or denim shirts.

#38 TallyWhagger on 2024-04-25 18:50 (Reply)

Back in the nineties, I worked in a Wall Street bank. Women had to wear either nice pants suits or jackets with skirts and hose. In the summer, they allowed "business casual Fridays." Women could wear a khaki skirt and a nice blouse, but still had to wear hose. One month, I got really, really, really bad poison ivy all up the backs of my legs. From the front, you couldn't tell, but the backs pretty much had one large blister covering each leg. There was no way I could wear hose. One day, one of the managing directors came on the floor and started giving me grief for not wearing hose. I told her my VP gave the okay and turned around. She gave her approval after she saw the devastation.

(I wasn't allowed to eat in the cafeteria, however, until I could wear hose again. People would bring me box lunches back.)

#39 Lee Also on 2024-04-25 19:55 (Reply)

Work went 'business casual' about 15 years before I retired. For the rest of my working career, ties (and suits) were only brought out for meetings with high ranking officers and civilians in the DOD. Since then it has been weddings (fewer over time) and funerals (sadly ever more prevalent).

#40 John Fisher on 2024-04-26 07:28 (Reply)

I never wear one for work, just scrubs. I like to have a good suit for proper occasions though. And I thought I did for an important funeral last week. I tried the coat on and it wouldn't close! I finally got the trousers on. I couldn't breath. (I don't mean it was uncomfortable, I couldn't draw a breath!) Off to Dillards! LOL.
I think I'm loosing my girlish figure.

#41 Hayden Goseek (Link) on 2024-04-26 08:05 (Reply)

Most of the time when I still worked I wore a tie and a suit or jacket. When I retired I gave all my suits sports jackets and ties to Goodwill and never regretted it. I did keep one tie and I do have a white dress shirt in my closet but haven't worn them for 25 years now. I don't like color in what I wear, never did. I like earth tones and Levi blue. I live in the South West now so I wear shorts (yes, baggy cargo shorts) and sandals. I do wear a long sleeve shirt if I'm out in the sun because after years of not being careful skin cancer and sun caused skin problems make my arms look 20 years older than I am.

I don't like scarves for women. I get it a lot of time their neck area looks like my arms from the sun but the scarf seems too obvious, too distracting like there is something that must be hidden. Of course on the other hand I don't understand women's clothing choices and pretty much ignore it and couldn't tell you what someone wore man or women. Clothes to me are merely functional.

#42 OneGuy on 2024-04-26 10:50 (Reply)

My DH has often been interviewed on TV. He is considered by many to be "the"expert in his field. While helping him to finish packing for one of his business trips, I realized he had packed a "Mickey Mouse"tie--small but clearly Mickey. I reached into his closet for a "business" tie and found Donald Duck, Minnie Mouse, Winnie the Pooh, etc. NONE--ZERO "business type ties". Our DDs have been supplying him with his ties over the years--birthday, Christmas, Father's Day, etc. I just let these things slide by and never really noticed. I ran out to Nordstrom for the conservative striped tie and brought it back for him in time for his trip. He whined. If I told him how much that "business tie" had cost he would have cried!

#43 faculty wife on 2024-04-26 11:20 (Reply)

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Thursday, April 25. 2024

Another Maggie's Scientificalistical Survey: Neckties