Does language shape our thinking?

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Friday, April 6. 2018

Does language shape our thinking?

It seems self-evident that language and ideas shape our thoughts. Almost nobody ever has an original thought, but new words and new ideas we obtain from others and from the past are exciting (or disturbing) because of their shaping or re-shaping effects.

There is some Goethe quote that we can only see what we know. If you see a "fighter jet" and I see an F-16, our mental representations of the thing are entirely different. Similarly, if you see "woods" and I see an Oak-Beech climax forest. Knowledge embedded in language shapes our perceptions and thus our thought.

My favorite question is "Who was the genius who invented numbers?" Are numbers "real"? . Remarkably, not all cultures have/had numbers. Numbers make a huge difference in how we perceive the world. And colors are just handy bunching of slices of the humanly visible electromagnetic spectrum.

Scientists Probe an Enduring Question: Can Language Shape Perception? The idea that language shapes our ability to think fell out of favor in the 1960s, but new tools have some researchers revisiting the concept.

Bonus: collection of Goethe quotes

Ed: Fun addendum:

Posted by The Barrister in The Culture, "Culture," Pop Culture and Recreation at 14:33 | Comments (18) | Trackback (1)

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Last week I posted on Does Language Shape Our Thoughts? The subject provoked some discussion. It is true that the Sapir-Whorf hypothesis turns out to have little empirical support, but I'll stand by my experience that a new word or phrase, and the

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Tracked: Apr 10, 16:03

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I'm waiting for Pinker to weigh in.

#1 steve walsh on 2018-04-06 17:14 (Reply)

Absolutely.

The "Health Care Crisis" that demanded a fix was,imo, a Health Insurance issue... medical care in the US wasn't sub-standard or broken.

Deliberate? Dunno. Harmful to the public conversation and searches for solutions? Yes.

Some other examples that come to mind:

"Affordable" Care Act.
"Federal" Reserve.
Bank of "England".

#2 shoe on 2018-04-06 17:28 (Reply)

Agree it is self-evident. My associations (aka thoughts) with Oak-Beech woodland are extensive.

#3 Bird Dog on 2018-04-06 18:00 (Reply)

There are some things which just "are", like numbers. We didn't invent them and language or words is just OUR way of referring to them.

There are somethings that "might be" and somethings that "might not be" and our words don't make them real or unreal except in the individuals mind. The language can convince or confuse our beliefs and opinions but in reality what might be or might not be doesn't change, doesn't become true or untrue because of what we say about it, only our belief about it changes.

#4 anon on 2018-04-06 18:49 (Reply)

I could debate that "numbers just are." Might be wrong, though/

#4.1 Bird Dog on 2018-04-06 18:58 (Reply)

I would recommend "PI in the Sky: Counting, Thinking, and Being" by John D. Barrow. Whether or not mathematics is invented or discovered is a very interesting question.

#4.2 Shiningmackerel on 2018-04-06 20:09 (Reply)

"There is some Goethe quote that we can only see what we know. "

"Now when I had mastered the language of this water and had come to know every trifling feature that bordered the great river as familiarly as I knew the letters of the alphabet, I had made a valuable acquisition. But I had lost something, too. I had lost something which could never be restored to me while I lived. All the grace, the beauty, the poetry had gone out of the majestic river! I still keep in mind a certain wonderful sunset which I witnessed when steamboating was new to me."

Mark Twain, "Life on the Mississippi".

You cannot LOOK at a printed page without READING it. Once you know the intricacies of a difficult topic, you're unable to appreciate the grandeur of the whole.

#5 Ken Mitchell on 2018-04-06 19:29 (Reply)

Is ignorance bliss?

#5.1 Bird Dog on 2018-04-06 19:32 (Reply)

The old question was always "If ignorance is bliss, is it folly to be wise?"

No, ignorance is NOT bliss, but sometimes knowledge isn't all that useful. It depends on what use you can make of the knowledge.

#5.1.1 Ken Mitchell on 2018-04-06 21:27 (Reply)

Ignorance is bliss if you don't know any better/different or don't care.

I don't recommend it, but plenty of people think it works for them. They then get to state others are 'taking advantage' of them and vote someone into office to allow them to remain blissfully ignorant.

#5.1.1.1 Bulldog on 2018-04-08 17:22 (Reply)

Sometimes,for damn sure it is.

#5.1.2 RL on 2018-04-07 00:46 (Reply)

It's a zombie theory that won't die. We must want it to be true. Even in the article, there is a vague idea at the edge of perception and naming that shows up in the brain if you're looking really hard, but even then it doesn't really replicate...this is a minuscule effect, even if true. Our language does not shape our thought. We are sure that it must, but if it were true in any large sense, the experimental evidence would be easy to produce and understand.

#6 Assistant Village Idiot (Link) on 2018-04-06 22:39 (Reply)

While it might be true that word selection within a language might not affect our thinking, my personal experience says language does indeed change our thinking, but it is probably due to the cultural features structured into the language.

Through a path chosen early in life (see Frost article above), I have found myself a bilingual speaker of Korean and English. I have personally observed that the construct of the Korean language, which has a deep Confucian basis of personal hirarchies where you speak differently depending on to whom or of whom you’re speaking, causes me to think quite differently. This is particularly true if I have to use it for days in a row. It might be particularly noticable because English is so informal.

#6.1 Kevin in WI on 2018-04-08 03:11 (Reply)

The Goethe quote (like the title of the Frost poem above) is so often misquoted that the misquote has become a daily aphorism—Man sieht nur was er weißt. The actual quote—Man erblickt nur, was man schon weiß und versteht—is much more shaded. (One only recognizes what one already knows and understands.)

Also, in the same vein, Goethe goes on to give us a chance to understand art—Was man weiß, sieht man erst! (What one knows, he sees first.)

So there is hope for our eventual understanding. That is covered by the greatest Goethe quote of all — Wer immer strebend sich bemüht, Den können wir erlösen.

#7 Bruce Anderson on 2018-04-07 07:25 (Reply)

The Myrna Loy discussion made total sense to me. We go through a process like that here whenever we get ready to paint. It usually takes us days to negotiate a color, and my husband's sense of it is even more acute than my own. He can look at a color swatch, leave it behind, and match it perfectly at the paint store--even to the point of being able to mix it himself. It's uncanny, like perfect pitch on the electromagnetic scale. If I want to match an item of clothing I own with something I want to buy, I have to take it to the store with me. He's never uncertain.

#8 Texan99 on 2018-04-07 09:27 (Reply)

I can remember as a kid seeing movies with Myrna Loy when I was a kid and thinking it was my mother. Ms Loy looks exactly like my mother at 20.

#8.1 GoneWithTheWind on 2018-04-07 10:05 (Reply)

Can language shape our thinking?
Sapir-Whorf suggests yes - though the primary version of it has been utterly discredited, certainly nuanced versions of it are still applicable.
There is a very good short sci-fi story about this concept, called "The Story of Your Life" by Ted Chiang. I thought it to be an excellent read, and it was made into a passable sci-fi movie with the love of my life (my wife says it's fine, so no worries) Amy Adams, "Arrival".
"The Story of Your Life" used both primary versions of Sapir-Whorf, indicating that a language, which the aliens had, which has no beginning and end point, could potentially alter how we view our lives (in the event, giving the linguist the ability to see into her future) and opens a question of 'would we do things differently if we knew what the future held?' Essentially, the answer is no. But the hypothesis also impacted how the linguist approached how she managed her life as she learned the new, alien, language.

I've seen this happen to people when they learn a new language. It changes how they perceive what's around them. It doesn't make fundamental alterations in an approach to life in general, but it certainly impacts how one goes about one's life.

#9 Bulldog on 2018-04-07 18:47 (Reply)

#10 Bulldog on 2018-04-07 18:47 (Reply)

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Friday, April 6. 2018

Does language shape our thinking?