Apprenticeship as education

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Tuesday, April 15. 2014

Apprenticeship as education

We recently linked this: Should the U.S. Adopt the German Model of Apprenticeships?

The otherwise-useful article concludes with the notion that "government could do more."

I have no idea what government has to do with it. After the basics, most lines of work are learned by apprenticeships and "practice" of various sorts. Just consider auto mechanics, cooking, gunsmithing, machine-tooling, law, medicine, bond sales, garden design, preaching, playing music, carpentry, jewelry design, flower arranging, cattle-raising, horse-grooming, dog training, leather-working, road-paving, politics and sales in general, fashion, etc., etc., etc. The list is endless.

I am very much in favor of the term and concept "apprentice," but I don't know what the heck government has to do with it. Why do so many people have this reflex that "government ought to do something"? As if it could.

People can figure these things out on their own.

Posted by The Barrister in Education, Our Essays, The Culture, "Culture," Pop Culture and Recreation at 13:45 | Comments (7) | Trackbacks (0)

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re Why do so many people have this reflex that "government ought to do something"?

This is so true with our ruling masters and very disheartening. Ever notice how they propose to revive the economy? It is always about wealth transfers, tax and regulatory adjustments or tweaking monetary policy. They NEVER propose getting government out of the way so people can be free to create.

#1 feeblemind on 2014-04-15 14:09 (Reply)

ah, but the government can dictate that only "licensed xxx" practice the craft, then enforce that licensing scheme, leaving the selling of the licenses, the number of licenses handed out, and the selling of training for the licensing to those oh so trustworthy organisations, the trade and labour unions.

#2 J.T. Wenting on 2014-04-15 14:10 (Reply)

The problems of American education arise out of American culture and are deeply embedded in that culture. You can only have a German apprenticeship system in Germany.

The problems of American education are essentially unsolvable because the problems are America itself.

That we are producing large numbers of young people without any economic function in a modern society simply means that America will gradually cease to be a modern society.

History is the story of the deaths of civilizations and cultures. Each one failed when its culture was not no longer relevant or functional in the larger world.

You don't actually believe America is forever, do you? Wasn't the Soviet Union the wave of the future?

Of course, we seem likely to end up on the trash heap of history without their assistance. Putin doesn't count as Soviet.

#3 bob sykes on 2014-04-15 14:28 (Reply)

I've talked with many young germans and Austrians and they like the American system in that it gives you a second (or third) chance. To be told you are going to be a machinist (or a physician) when your are 13 is incredibly rigid.

We did this years ago without being more rigid. High school was more rigorous so if you graduated you were seen to be well prepared. Kids saw more tradesmen every day and were well acquainted with the opportunities. You did not have to have a college degree to be a successful (or any kind) of businessman. The current trap of the educational industrial complex is where the problem lies.

#4 DirtyJobsGuy on 2014-04-15 15:06 (Reply)

I've talked with many young germans and Austrians and they like the American system in that it gives you a second (or third) chance. To be told you are going to be a machinist (or a physician) when your are 13 is incredibly rigid.

That's a good point. The second and third chances we give to people is to the good. Another point against rigid apprenticeship programs is that most of us will perform many different kinds of jobs during our work careers.

The mention of "rigid apprenticeship programs" reminds me that Europeans are less likely to change jobs than Americans, for a variety of reasons. I have read that Americans have greater job satisfaction than Europeans, which is probably due to greater job mobility in the US. If a European doesn't like his job, he is more likely to stay in it than in the US. In the US, if you don't like your job, you may well seek out other employment.

Too many school systems have gutted industrial arts programs in the desire that "everybody goes to college." In addition to recognizing the talents of students whose abilities and interests do not align with the wordsmithing that most high school courses require, industrial arts programs could lead to post high school employment.

Yes, there should be more attention given in high schools to preparing some students for non-college employment, but with flexibility.

A further point about apprenticeship programs is that work study programs in college are similarly helpful. My sister got her engineering degree at a university that had a work study program. This was very helpful in her future career, as she acquired a good idea before she got her first job as a degreed engineer about what engineering jobs required and how her skills and interests fit into those requirements.

[One bad story from her work study. She spent one term at a consulting firm, which expected her to replace a degree holder who had done the job for 13 years. Not surprisingly, a college junior didn't perform up to those expectations. In any event, that experience didn't harm her subsequent career as work study student and degreed engineer.]

#4.1 Gringo on 2014-04-15 16:33 (Reply)

Apprenticeship or internship, whatever you want to call it, should be an integral part of the US economy/educational system.
It used to be.

It isn't any more because labor agitators have made it impossible.

My son and I were visiting Syracuse University last week, and a professor was discussing internship opportunities. He noted they are fewer and farther between for one reason - the ruling which stipulated all interns must receive minimum wage has caused companies to cut back on internships.

I know my firm went from 150 to only 50. The cost is prohibitive. Interns, when they are not paid or only paid a stipend (as we paid) would also have to be insured - and the company has to insure them against liability. Then there are space, phone, internet, technology, etc. costs.

The reason we no longer have these useful educational tools for trade experience is BECAUSE of politics. So I'm not sure how politics can help re-create what once was?

#5 Bulldog on 2014-04-15 16:26 (Reply)

After visiting many craft breweries in the USA, staffed by Germans who apprenticed in Germany but could not find employment in Germany because of the apprentice system, I vote “no.”

The USA can always use the skilled of other nations’ whose restrictive guild systems prevent full employment of human capital.

#6 ErisGuy on 2014-04-16 06:47 (Reply)

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Tuesday, April 15. 2014

Apprenticeship as education