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Tuesday, February 7. 2012
The wife of a friend of mine was recently made to feel uncomfortable while visiting her freshman daughter's dorm to see fellows walking around the halls with towels or undershorts with long-neck beers in their hands as if the dorm were some sort of downscale Roman orgy.
I commented that co-ed showers would be the next new thing. The idea of that is, indeed, titillating.
In my paleo view, co-education itself was a bad idea. It ignores the reality of adolescent sexual tension, the reality of distraction, and the distortion of behavior that can ensue. Speaking for myself, the idea of trying to study or sleep knowing that some leggy blonde was in the next room three feet away, alone and perhaps feeling lonely, would make studying Plato a difficult thing to do.
What's your opinion?
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My daughter will be a freshman in college next fall. She's a good kid, but I wonder what will happen when confronted with the reality of college/university.
Most of what I imagine is not good.
I don't support them. If it were up to me they would not exist.
I was in co-ed dorm in the third and fourth year of college. Really, nothing to write home about. Albeit, that was 20 years ago.
same here. 2 female students, 2 male students. Lived there for 6 years.
Nothing ever happened afaik. But then again, that was 20 years ago almost and all of us were dead serious about our acedemic pursuits and ended up graduating with good grades.
Of course, this being 20 years ago, we didn't walk around the place naked with just a towel to cover our genitals.
At the very least we'd wear a bathrobe :)
When I went freshman year 1980, I had a choice. Co-ed, or all male. I chose all male and I am pleased with the choice. There was an all girl dorm next door, so it's not like we were so far apart. We had mixers in the dining hall.
Co-ed, at that point, was mostly floor by floor. Only one hall was room to room, and I believe that was not a good way to go.
Later, I joined a fraternity, so the all male theme continued throughout my college experience. I still had a great experience, and the nice part is if I wanted distractions, I could go find them. They didn't just pop up in my face.
I chose an all women's college and that has made all the difference to paraphrase Robert Frost. In addition to distractions being at minimum, being in an all female college also assures that women are in all leadership positions- good experience!
That said, I couldn't convince my daughter to even consider it. However, her college dorms are co-ed by floor- the girls prefer it - bathrooms on the girls' floors smell much better and are definitely cleaner!
Too distracting, in my view. I would have learned far less than the little I did learn - except I might have learned more about females.
Was the woman "made to feel uncomfortable," or was she just uncomfortable?
In the circumstance you describe, my opinion is that Plato is not really so important.
I lived in the only coed dorm at Cornell, as a freshman many decades ago. It was a party from the moment we moved in right until we left for our first summer break, though several people were ejected from school along the way. We had it all, including coed showers, and honestly it was fun.
Not for my children though, each of whom lived in single sex dorms all through school at my earnest recommendation. Nowadays, different from my own experience, you actually have to be a great student (to get a job) and while coed dorms lead to lots of things, great academic performance was not on the list.
Never let proximity pick your (choose one) soul mate, partner, SO, spouse, GF, BF, BFF, or whatever the current euphemism is.
I have been in both same-sex and co-ed. Co-ed is definitely... distracting.
It wasn't just MEN wandering around in semi-dress situations though! More than a couple of times I'd go into the (nominally) male-only bathroom to see a woman in a T-shirt, panties, and nothing else brushing her teeth. THAT was unsettling.
And, of course, leave us not forget the weekends when, at pretty much any time after 6 PM, you could wander the halls listening for moans emanating from one room or another.
In keeping with the general tenor around here lately, I would suggest that you ditch the Plato and pick a major like anatomy, or even biology, that might lead to gainful employment outside the ivy-covered walls.
My son's dorm is segregated by floor with supposedly limited visiting hours. His first roommate was very rude about visiting hours, though, which left my son quite annoyed. The students socialize pretty briskly in the common areas.
I found the co-ed dorm to be far calmer and quieter than the all-male dorms.
And more incentive to perform well on your exams. Rather than boys being boys and goofing off being more important than studies so as to not give the impression of being the "geekie nerd" and the bullying that comes with that, you're judged on character.
And in a mixed environment, everyone wants to show their best behaviour to impress the other sex, subconsciously that means achieving success in life which means good grades in a college/university environment (at least it did 15-20 years ago when I was a student living in mixed quarters).
Co-Ed dorms are an outreach of radical feminism. The idea was to make everyone equal even though to the naked eye it was obvious everyone was not equal. To say that co-ed dorms and showers help the study environment is to say that education should be watered down. Oh wait -- that's already happened.
When I went to trade school, women were not allowed in the dorms except on rare holidays when visitors were allowed. When women were allowed to stay in the dorms and the rules morphed to a more co-ed approach, academics took a downturn as did every other aspect of school life. It was obvious to the most casual observer that co-ed dorms and co-ed education did not encourage good study habits, high academic standards, high physical standards, comradery or excellence of any nature.
Why would anyone want to live in a college dorm? I moved out of the dorms the first chance I had after my freshman year. My roommate and I shared an apartment of 6 rooms, complete with a full kitchen, on the second floor of a house situated in a very quiet neighborhood for the same price we would have paid to stay in the college dorms. All we had to do besides pay the rent was to do a little handy work, keeping the house and grounds clean, which took us no more than an hour or two each weekend.
I was in a co-ed dorm with co-ed bathrooms 25 years ago and there wasn't any more hedonism than the single-sex dorms. Not that there wasn't any hedonism but...
We had one floor that had single sex wings and the guy's side was a complete mess. Something to be said with living around female company
One of the interesting things about public pools and fitness facilities in Germany is that they are often unisex.
There is nothing quite as unsexy as a naked woman before she is made up and dressed. I saw one leaning forward over the vanity peering into the mirror, cigarette drooping from a corner of her mouth, boobs drooping from her chest, applying makeup, and she did not look good.
I saw her fully dolled up outside later and then she looked pretty good.
I learned that the old rule applies: "Laws, and well polished women, are like sausages, it is better not to see them being made."
Last sentence a great one, Fred Z.
In boot camp, there were no dividers between toilets, nor urinals. Nothing like sharing a shit with your fellow man. Very useful learned experience later on though.
I wonder how it would be if co-ed dorms did the same. A lot of mystery, and who knows what else, thrown to the wayside I suspect.
As to my opinion, I think it is all BS. One more step to the totalitarian 'equality' the far left desires for the world.
I went to an all-boys boarding school. I complained about it then, but now it's gone co-ed (not the dorm, just the school) and I wish it hadn't. Several years ago, there was a lot of uproar over women who were not allowed admission in some (previously) all make colleges. I note that all-women colleges did not have the same kind of pressure to allow men to gain admission to them!
I did not stay in the dorm in college so I can't imagine what it would be like. I know when I was in college, I would have killed for the opportunity to stay in a co-ed dorm, but now that I've grown up a bit, I do not think it's a good idea at all.
Call me a curmudgeon but there's way too much promiscuity going on with little though beyond "is this interesting?" or "does this feel good (now)?" rather than honest meaningful relationships.
Maybe co-ed dorms will reduce the incidence of male homosexuality that I hear is a growing issue in the Democratic Party? Republicans should support more boy girl action I reckon.
My daughter lived on a co-ed floor her freshman year, separate winges of the hall, but shared bathrooms. Those were single person john/sink/shower rooms, so limited risk of a naked encounter. Still, there was some wandering in the halls clad only in a towel. Frankly, not much worse than at home with a brother, but the risk of some sexual tension/flirtation was in the air.
I went to an all male college (Wabash - still is), so there was no risk of any of that. We were grumbling at the time, but like Mudbug, we appreciate it now. No distractions five days a week, then lots of girls around on the weekends.
Now that I'm 68 it's easy to agree this is a bad thing. But oh how I wish they had coed showers when I was in college. I even missed the sexual revolution. Damn!
And men are expected not to react as nature has programmed them?
America is being programmed by madwomen.
1980, University College, University of Melbourne. (Our system is modelled on the English one, so they are called "colleges," not "dorms.") And you have your own room. None of the 13 colleges at Melbourne Uni is single-sex. I think they still have single-sex colleges at Sydney Uni, but not sure. So yes, guys wandered around half-dressed, but so did girls race to the shower wrapped in a towel. I don't ever recall it causing any problems: it was fun. And when the rain was beating a tattoo on the college roof and you know you were snug and warm with a girl's room to go to - man, that was living!
Back in '75, waking up at 6:00am on the first morning of my freshman year of college in my single, shoebox-sized room in the coed dorm, exhausted because I'd arrived at school sometime after 2:00am the night before, knowing no one, not really getting what "coed" meant . . . .
So I walked bleary-eyed down to the bathroom, jumped in a shower, got all scrubbed down, and turned off the water. I reached out of the stall for my towel, and wrapped it around my head and started drying my hair as I stepped out.
Someone else was drying off a few stalls down, and said "good morning" to me. I don't remember if I answered or just grunted - I was still out of it - but I do remember how a few seconds later I suddenly felt a sort of mental jostling as my sleeping brain eventually processed what they had said, and how they had said it, and, specifically, their voice, which was somehow wrong for this setting.
So I pulled down my towel and uncovered my head and looked over to see a rather beautiful young woman standing in front of her shower stall, nude, toweling away at herself.
It was not how I wanted to wake up.
By the end of the year, it was like living in a barracks with your thirty brothers and sisters. I know there were some very elevated hormone levels throughout the dorm for the first month, but, aside from the permanently horny, (a small minority, thank goodness), you simply could not sustain any kind of romantic or sexual vision of these people with whom you brushed your teeth and cleaned your nostrils and clipped your toenails on a daily basis.
My college dorm was co-ed almost forty years ago. It was no big deal. Ditto for the big, rambling off-campus house that a lot of us shared later.
Casual sex is and should be an accepted part of modern life. Where coed dorms make it easier, they are a good thing.
Radical feminism, of course, are the only real opposition now that social conservatism is gasping its last breaths. Fortunately, there is starting to be a backlash among women who resent the feminists' anti-sexual paternalism because it treats them, along with men, like children.