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Thursday, October 6. 2011Wall Street Protests vs. Tea PartiersIf you look at methods alone, there isn't a huge difference between the Wall Street protests and the Tea Party protests. They have very different values, different demands, and different bases of support. But both utilize the First Amendment as a means of making their point. The Wall Streeters are more rowdy, and as a result have seen quite a bit of police involvement. There have been far fewer arrests at individual Tea Party events. Some of the Wall Street arrests and the overly physical nature of the police are unnecessary. But there is little doubt the Wall Streeters are far more provocative and looking to antagonize the police, given the nature of the agitators involved. We've seen them before. They know the best way to get on TV is to create a scene, and they are good at doing it. Is it a surprise so much of the 'police violence' is being caught on video? They are planning to get this on video by initiating events which will lead to the use of violence, even at moments when the police probably should show more restraint. So why does Obama view one set of protestors an "expression of frustration", while the other is "misidentifying sort of who the culprits are"? Both are viable protests, seeking to make points and be heard. From that standpoint, both are worthy of having Obama's full attention. But no, one has been formally rejected by the "vast majority" of Americans. To be clear, there is no reason to prevent either group from gathering, protesting, or speaking. It's unfair to say one is more legitimate than the other. But for our country's leader to recognize one as more valid than the other is absurd. Particularly when the group which he considers more valid has not made its agenda clear, is only advocating a never ending list of grievances without valid solutions, and is provoking violent activity (some of it, but not all, unwarranted) on the part of the police. Tea Partiers, whether you support or oppose them, have tended to gather peacefully and have made their agenda clear. They support smaller government, lower taxes and they oppose crony capitalism. What's interesting is the two groups share that final point. Where they differ is on solutions. The Tea Party solves crony capitalism by shrinking government and getting it out of the way. The Wall Street protestors don't have a clear solution, but it's clear increasing the role of government is part of their solution. Increasing that role with politicians 'who care'. In other words, people like them. The Wall Streeters' world is like Orwell's "Animal Farm", where some people are more equal than others. Their solution, unfortunately, is to keep it that way, but change the people who are more equal.
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The reason he considers the Wall Street morons more valid is because this is exactly the kind of "community organization" he professes to believe in. It also fits his politics of division - of creating two opposing states and picking one side to win.
The same kind of techniques John L. Lewis used which I would assume President Obama knows well. http://dailypundit.com/?p=44328
Bullshit? Not so sure. I did differentiate between the tactics used - noting the agitating that Wall Streeters have used, and pointing out we've seen these agitators before. So this fellow focuses on a single element. Arrests. Have there been arrests at Tea Party gatherings? Yes. He claims they were provocateurs or anti-Tea Partiers. Fine - but arrests have taken place. You can pick the nits wherever you choose. I didn't say the arrests were caused by, or even included Tea Partiers. So he can call bullshit all he wants, but I'll stand by the statement. I didn't say the Tea Partiers agitated. I didn't say the Tea Parters were arrested. I just said there were far fewer arrests. This is true. It is a fact. It's also a fact that some of the Wall Streeters have been attacked and/or arrested without good reason. But, some of the Wall Streeters are deliberately antagonizing the police in order to get arrested. I discuss this. So if you want to take the comment out of context and go berserk over the contrast I've described - have at it. I do not see the least bit of similarity between the two.
The OWS are the usual collection of obnoxious, threatening useful idiots, union thugs and professional rent a mob, all organized by communist front group (that is what "Community Organizers"really are), and the TP people are decent, regular Americas standing up against this Left-wing coup the Democrats are trying to force on us.. One group squats down on Wall st. for weeks selfishly disrupting everyone else lives, the other has scheduled ad reasonable meeting and marches. one is bankrolled by the professorial Left and the other is a spontaneous grass roots movement. One wants to destroy our society and the other wants to save it. You say "It's unfair to say one is more legitimate than the other." Hogwash. If you cant tell the difference then you are not paying attention.. This to is nonsense: "Some of the Wall Street arrests and the overly physical nature of the police are unnecessary." This kind of provocative {demonstration" has been going on for 3 weeks. It is a standard Communist technique, and it is meat to provoke violent repose. Decent pep0le do not engage in these tactics. In any civil society they would start locking them up by now. This is not a "legitimate" way to "protest"l this is civil disorder. No doubt soon it will get worse. The Democrats are organizing this. Get this straight: the governing political Party is organizing these street thugs. This s just what Chavez, Castro, Lenin and Mao did. If you cant tell the difference the you are profoundly confused. I didn't say they were similar. Please quote back to me where I wrote this. I said they both utilized their First Amendment rights. From that POV, there is not a huge difference.
I did make the contrast in precisely the areas you discussed - the agitation, antagonism, etc. But these are tactics, and not everybody in the Wall Street protests agree with these tactics. If you don't believe that, then you haven't been paying attention. The police have been overly aggressive in some of the situations. Have they been provoked? Certainly, at times. But not in every case. If you lived in New York, as I do, and know people who are down there, then you'd realize this. You can focus on all the differences, and there are many, and say the two groups are not remotely similar. But if you simply view it from the standpoint of First Amendment rights and what these allow, then the rest is merely POV. It falls into the "history is written by the victors" category. If these people (who I do not agree with in the least) succeed to overthrow the current status quo, then history will view them in a very different light than you have described. Certainly this isn't something I wish to see. But if we really want to be honest, we have to start from standpoint which begins by comparing them on what they have in common. They actually have 2 things. First, their use of the First Amendment. Second, their opposition to crony capitalism. Beyond that, I agree they have differences and I wrote about those differences. My point, however, was to draw a distinction based on validity and how the president is willing to accept one as valid and dismiss the other. In doing so, it's important to focus on exactly what they share...and why these shared points make the president's point of view outlandish. Because once you get past those similarities, it's clear which group has been more law abiding, is focused on solutions, and really cares about the system. Why do people read the first sentence of an article and assume they know what it is about? If you read the whole article, you'll see I'm not justifying their tactics at all. I'm not claiming they are illegitimate, either, though. Because that would be untrue and unfair. The first sentence? It's called a lede, Bulldog ;>)
Frankly, I'm old enough to have been in the path of the OWS types: the '68 Chicago convention, Chicago riots when Martin Luther King was killed, a few anti-war (both Nam and Iraq) marches and, most recently, the Madison, WI revolt when Gov. Scott fought to revamp the budget. I have also had the pleasure (sarc) of meeting ACORN and Black Panther members during election seasons. In no way has any Tea Party gathering come close to the destruction, disruption and lack of respect toward society in general that is exhibited by the participants in the above-listed events. If I didn't know better, I would think that the OWS' demonstrations were pre-planned by some "community organizers" to coordinate with Obama's jobs tour and his TV broadcast where he could "feel their pain." His stuff is getting so old as is that particular program. Nothing new and much hidden in its many pages. The co-founder of Home Depot, who I believe voted for him before, is now having a tizzy fit because this jobs bill contains all sorts of penalties and openings for lawsuits. The corporate world is not as dumb as The Won thinks. They have learned to read every paragraph since the Dems seem to think that no one will catch those little zingers hidden in 3,000-plus pages. I think the Wall Streeters are, in some ways, as pissed off at Obama as they are at the economic system which left them behind (mainly because they choose to be left behind, of course). So I don't think there is any coordination.
I don't think their protest is illegitimate or wrong. Misguided and ill-considered is more like it. A person I know who has been down there actually said to me "these people are putting themselves on the line, sleeping outside, to make the world a better place. They want the world to have more compassion." I basically said "F#ck compassion. Emotions don't fix anything. We need practical solutions, not feel good therapy." Sure, I get their 'point', such as it is. The economic system has screwed some people over. But most of the people who have been screwed over did it to themselves. "Hey, let's take on that $500k mortgage on a $30k salary." "I really need that 52 inch TV today, so I'll load up $3,000 on my credit card." "I owe myself a vacation to the Bahamas because I work hard and I can pay it off in 15 months if I do it on credit." "I'm young and healthy and don't need health insurance, so I'll pocket the extra cash." (actually, at one point in life this was me, and I was very lucky it didn't bite me in the butt) Now that the worm has turned, and these follies have been pursued, the people engaging them want their problems 'fixed by the system that screwed them'. Oh, where is the compassion? This is precisely why I set up the first paragraph the way I did. There are clear differences between the Tea Party and the Wall Streeters. But from the standpoint of method - First Amendment rights - there is not. And this is precisely where Obama seeks to try and differentiate them from the Tea Party. Of course, both groups have every right to engage the First Amendment. But it's the tactics and solutions which truly differentiate the two groups. Neither is illegitimate. We're all allowed to have our opinions and voice them. One is just far more practical than the other. I'm not a Tea Party supporter, either. But if you asked me which group would garner more of my sympathy? There is no question. The Tea Party isn't interested in foisting their value set upon me. They just want to get the government out of our lives and our economic system. You're really drinking the kool-aid the conservatives are pouring.
OWS was a spontaneous outpouring, whereas TP folks, looking to be grass roots, are simply funded by corporate interests looking to use good people once again to get govt and regulations off their backs for more profits - and muddy the waters with lies. I think both groups are decent Americans. I'm surprised you didn't use hippies as well in your nonthinking rant. Commies? Really? Over there - take the train back to 1950 - it's waiting for you. You are right - one wants to destroy our society - those that continue to be mouthpieces for the extreme right and do everything in their power to deregulate industry. It will destroy our society and make us virtual slaves to big business someday - worse than how people had to put up with low wages, long work weeks, and no worker rights in the 1800's - or as your group calls it - 'the good ol' days'. History has shown time and again that when left to their own devices - corporations take the path of most profit - regardless of what happens to the rest of us. Environmental destruction, wholesale misery and poverty, etc. - they don't care as long as they make shareholders happy. This is the basis that us many Americans realize is what pisses off the OWS folks - stop the obscenity in corporations. Before you do the usual and say that I must be against capitalism - I am not. I support capitalism. But just as we needed reform from the robber barons of the 1800's - we need relief from the robber barons of the 21st century - super rich corporations and institutions like oil, banks, insurance companies and pharmaceuticals who make obscene profits off of us as they continue to get richer and we...the struggling middle class...get poorer. How can taking away our middle class tax exemptions help us? How can giving the super rich more exemptions help us? Your answer is - they will invest. Yeah, a little, but it is more or less bullshit, and they will pay bigger profits than ever. Some crumbs fall off the table for us to grab at - but a healthy middle calss is the answer. A robust middle class will buy things, build houses, and those things and houses need to come from somewhere - so people will be put to work making them, and the company owners will also make profits - and we all benefit. So do what you can for the middle class - that is the measure of a prosperous and stable system. In the middle ages there was a large lower class, small upper class, and small middle class - those systems no longer exist because too few people had anything. This current system of a shrinking middle calss cannot go on indefinitely. So keep on supporting those who are taking your money and bleeding you dry and defend them with your last breath as they steal your wallet! Bulldog - glad you are on the team. I like your clearheaded thinking.
We have some OW across the street in Columbia, MO at the city hall protesting a long list of stupid ideas.
They are your typical liberal outcasts. Bad hair, clothes from a garbage bin. They sit around and block the side and crosswalks. Some are holding signs that say "Turtle Power". WTF? These protests will be a failure because they have no solutions, they just have "wants". They want $20/hour minimum wage... so we can have $10 Big Macs??? They want universal health insurance so people (like them) who sit around and don't work can go to the Doctor on my dime. I can't wait until November 2012, so all these people who want more socialism can watch all the give-away programs shut down. No one in this country deserves anything. You have to earn it. These unbathed hoodlams are going to learn that the hard way and I'm going laugh at them as they learn. We had some here in town too.
The dumbest sign I saw: "Taxes Make Jobs" When certain types of regime pick out a class or identity group to focus hatred upon, the end result is unpredictable.
http://www.myspace.com/video/vid/33350184 Not surprised to hear that, Mark M. I grew up in that college town. Idiots are everywhere, as are freeloaders and would-be freeloaders.
What disturbs me is that FOXNEWS is giving these Marxists air-time and in so doing...throwing "gas on the fire". If this does catch fire and get out of control, it will be the Administration, and media to blame. My husbands great grand father was summarily executed by the Bolsheviks for being a capitalist, we have friends in China that tell us story after story about capitalists being executed by the rioters during the cultural revolution; and this looks like the start of "history repeating itself".
Shame on the media especially FOXNEWS |
Wall Street Protests vs. Tea Partiers - Maggie’s Farm If you look at methods alone, there isn’t a huge difference between the Wall Street protests and the Tea Party protests. They have very different values, different demands, and differen...
Tracked: Oct 06, 22:23