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Wednesday, April 7. 2010Doc's Computin' Tips: The IDE/SATA/RAID story Pictured: Average reader upon hearing the bad news. Well, there's no sense in beating around the bush. Let's get right to the good news. For a mere $49.95, it's possible that you could more than double your hard drive speed. That means everything would be quicker. Boot-up time, saving, converting, copying, formatting, rendering, transcoding, frameserving, demuxing, remuxing, bitmapping, raytracing, defragging, scanning, disk-checking... Everything. For a crummy 49 bucks. Think that's impressive? With the mere flip of a setting, you might be able to almost double it again. More info and official techie-type graphs & numbers are below the fol- "But Doc, wait! What about the bad news?" Oh, let's just keep that between ourselves. There are children present. I'm going to make you wait a little bit longer for the bad news, but you can probably guess. And it's only a possibility. Call it a 'worst case scenario'. Let's get your appetite whetted first. Here's the output from Norton's Performance Test. There are three hard drives involved. Legend That's the difference between the new SATA drives and the old IDE type. So it's obvious that SATA drives really scream. But are all SATA drives the same? Here are the same two, new, different Seagate SATA drives, but with the BIOS changed from 'IDE' to 'RAID': That's what money and research buys. The faster drive, a Seagate 'Barracuda', was purposely sought out after reading some reviews on the latest in hard drive speeds and ordered from BestBuy online. It cost about $150. The less-faster one was grabbed right off the shelf when I was in BestBuy the other day for $99, on sale for $79. I knew it would be slower, but it's just a storage drive so there wasn't any point in blowing the extra bucks. But the chart clearly shows there's a major difference between the two. As to whether or not your own SATA drive(s) will respond to the BIOS change, all you can do is give it a shot. Update note: The original graphs I used were 'Instantaneous' speeds but they didn't reflect the 'Read MB/Sec' numbers people were expecting so there's a bit of confusion in the comments. The above graphs have been updated. Drive Test & Identification To test your before-and-after performance, here's a handy little tool called 'RdII' that'll do the trick. Download the file, unzip, find it a good home. Run RdII. Set the box on the lower-right to '100'. Double-click on a drive name to test. If you're unsure what type of drive(s) you have, open the tower and look. IDE drives will have a wide, flat, probably gray cable going to the back, SATA drives will have a couple of regular-looking wires, one of them most likely red. If you can't access the tower, download the above program, run it and look in the middle box. If it says 'SCSI' in the first column of the drive's row, it's SATA. If it says 'IDE', it's an old-style IDE drive. (If anyone knows how to distinguish the two using Windows, I'd sure like to know. It just seems bizarre that tiny little RdII seems to view the stat as so important that it gives it an entire column, yet I can't find the "SCSI-SATA/IDE" dif anywhere in Device Manager or System Information.) And Here It Comes The bad news is, if you want to go from an IDE drive to a SATA drive, or from the 'IDE' setting in the BIOS to 'RAID' — if not both — you might have to reinstall Windows. I quickly admit I did not pursue this, since I wanted to reinstall Windows anyway, but that was the gist I got glancing over the forums when my system wouldn't boot with the 'RAID' setting. When it comes to going from an IDE drive to SATA, you'd first need to download the SATA/RAID driver from the new drive's web site, plug in the SATA drive as a spare drive and install the driver. You'd then use a program like Acronis True Image to make an image file of the C Drive, then use True Image to copy the C Drive image to the new SATA drive. That's what I initially did and it worked fine, although I still had to reinstall Windows because of the 'RAID' setting. As far as the IDE/RAID setting goes, all you can do is try. For what it's worth, I tried the 'Repair' feature in the Windows install disc. To access the BIOS, look for a quick message on the screen right after you turn on the computer. It'll usually want the F2, F10 or Delete key to be pressed. Once the BIOS program is up, use the arrow keys to navigate to (probably) the 'Advanced' panel, then look for a 'SATA Mode' setting. Get into the SATA settings area. Some BIOSes use the Enter key, others use the PageUp and PageDown keys — it should say somewhere in the side panel how to navigate around. You'll see an 'IDE', 'RAID', and possibly an 'AHCI' setting. Select 'RAID' (possibly with the Enter key), then slide over to the 'Exit' panel and save the settings on the way out. One of three things should happen: 1. It won't boot all the way up. You might see the Windows logo on the screen for a bit, but in my case it would suddenly recycle back to square one. Go back into the BIOS and set it back to 'IDE'. Plan on doing a Google search or asking in a forum if there's a way around reinstalling Windows. Don't be surprised if there isn't. Convince yourself that you've been wanting to anyway. 2. It'll boot up but, like my shelf-bought drive, it won't take advantage of the extra boost and your performance will be about the same. You might as well leave it in 'RAID' mode so the system will be ready should you ever reinstall Windows, so that your RAID-ready Windows will then be ready for a hotter drive that takes advantage of the RAID setting. 3. "Cowabunga!" At least, that's what I said. As you can see in the above graph, this is a real, demonstrable difference, not just a few percentile points here and there. As for reinstalling Windows, I always view the time it takes as a good investment. A fresh Windows is always perkier and snappier than one that's been thrashed around for a while. I slap in a fresh system about once a year. The problem with installing Windows from scratch, as you might know, is that you only get three 'activations'. Worse, if you make a bunch of hardware changes down the road, at some point it might want to be activated again, and if you've already used up all three, it's off to the store for another copy of Windows — which will then have to be installed from scratch. The trick is to install a brand-new Windows, make sure all of your devices (spare hard drives, flash sticks, PCI cards, network connections, etc) are hooked up, then get online and 'activate' it. Then you'd make an image file for future reinstallations so it won't ever have to be 'activated' again.
Posted by Dr. Mercury
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Easiest way to determine what your drive is running on is to open up device manager, expand the disk drives entry, and google the name of the drive and find out what type of ATA connection it has. I don't know of any more direct means to find out.
I have found that if you go over three activations, and you are forced to try a telephone activation, that the Microsoft staff are reasonable about allowing another activation.
epv - You're right, that's both quicker and easier than downloading a program. You figure the information must be there in Windows somewhere, but I tore Device Mangler and Sys Info apart and if not there -- then where? Yet this small RdII program thinks it's so important that not only does it devote an entire column to the subject, but the first column, at that.
Anyway, this friggin' 'Barracuda' drive really hauls balls. In all these years, I've always had my system on a separate drive than my storage drives, but this sucker's so fast (and, at 1.5 TB, fairly big) that I've got everything on it. System-performance-enhancement-wise, there's probably no better bang for the buck. Fred - Good to hear. And they'd better. It's been a few years since it happened, but if I recall correctlly, I added some network card and Windows suddenly wanted to be activated again -- RIGHT NOW. As I recall, the choice was either "Activate" or "Log off". Log back on and that's all you'd get. Nasty. You'd think they'd at least give you the day or something. Enough time to, oh, you know, look up their Customer Service phone number. :)
Doc, what exactly is "instantaneous disk speed" measuring? I've seen many different disk benchmarks, but I'm not familiar with that one, and searching for a definition didn't find anything useful.
Wolfs - Damned if I know. I just work here. It's what Norton Performance Test spit out, graph-wise, so I figger it means something. It came with Symantec's 'Norton SystemWorks' package, so it's the real deal.
BTW, I have a question for you in that last NCIS post you commented in. Tomorrow night's post? 2,889 words and counting. Rock 'n' roll, baby. Well, it might mean something useful .... or it might not. There are a bunch of different ways to measure disk performance, and not all of them are useful measurements of the disk's actual performance under real-world conditions. The most useful numbers for real-world performance are:
"seek time" -- the time it takes the disk to find any given sector on the disk "data read rate" -- how fast it can read data off the disk "data write rate" -- how fast it can write data to the disk And there are other things that can affect disk performance, too. If you have an antivirus scanner that checks files on open, and you're doing something that opens and closes a lot of files, that scanner will slow down the PC's performance significantly. W - The readout had all of that, of course, but for some reason it decided to spit out whateveritwas for the graph. Like I said, this is a Symantec product, so they've probably got a good handle on things. And the numbers lined up straight across the board or I wouldn't have used it. I tested the drives every which way, every partition, turning the IDE/RAID on and off, the works. No question, for one crappy setting, that was the find of the year.
Are you sure about those numbers, they seem very low. What does the utility measure? I would expect a modern drive to do better than 50 MB/sec on sequential reads, I see 72 MB/sec here on a software raid1 device. And raid0 would be even faster, if less safe.
chuck - Did you see the RdII numbers, above? That's what you're referring to. If you think 72 MB/s is hot, try 118. I gather Norton's "Instantaneous" numbers are some kind of "burst speed", but the point is the difference, which the graph demonstrated nicely.
I think 72 MB/s is normal these days. If I wanted 'hot' I would go to raid0 (striped) and get the bigger numbers. But two drives are about the limit for what I want in my box and I use them mirrored, not striped. Since I also change motherboards every two years or so I also prefer software raid for its hardware independence. And never installing windows in the first place gets rid of the reinstall problem.
Now I'm waiting for SSD's to get faster, cheaper, and bigger. And I expect to give up my mid-tower in a few years and move to something closer to the size of a shoebox. However, I don't see doing without a decent keyboard and large monitor as something I'll try anytime soon. chuck - Interesting you mentioned SSD drives. I was reading an update on them not long ago. I'd say they're still not ready for prime time, but a lot closer than they were just a year ago. As fond as we are of regular drives, one has to admit that "spinning disc" is starting to sound a little archaic in a solid-state world.
"However, I don't see doing without a decent keyboard and large monitor as something I'll try anytime soon." But...but...but I read just the other day that the iPad is going to replace the computer! I thought a modern guy like yourself would be one of the first to throw that ancient, creaky box on the scrap heap. I'll do it if you do! You go first. :) From what I have read, my ancient but upgraded Dell does not have the capabilities for RAID, but "newer" versions in that product line do.
The readout says that @ 4kb block size, it reads at 63 MEG/sec. For 8 KB block size, it reads @ 107 MEG/sec. Whatever. I have done 7 reinstalls on my XP Pro operating system, with numerous hardware upgrades, and have never had to use the telephone to get it MS-reactivated. For all the time that reinstalls take, in some ways it saves the time for a non-geek such as myself to research why something isn't working right. Just reinstall. For some unknown reason I got a very annoying "Windows Search" before the usual Search deal. The "new-improved" Windows Search was not user friendly. When I reinstalled, it went away. You hit the wrong thing on the mouse or the toolbar at the wrong time, and things mess up. Not always easy to figure out, Reinstall. IDE/SATA: The hard drive is SATA, but the test says there is an IDE interface. Whatever that means. Gringo - Hey bud, long time no yak with.
That 'activation' thing is really weird. A number of years ago I switched two ROM drives -- that's all I did, switch the Master/Slave settings & jacks -- and boom! The last time it happened, all I did was plug in my laptop's network cable. Boom! As far as system troubles go, aren't you into the drive image routine? I use a commercial program called True Image, but there are freebies around. Make a backup file every week, system blows out, slap in the latest backup file. And while it's obviously extremely handy in a blow-out situation, it's also a great 'everyday' tool. Want to install five different Whatever programs to see which one you like the best? Make an image file, clog the system up with five installs, make your choice, then reinstall the image file and then install just that one program. I use that routine about once a week. As to your SATA drive and IDE interface, I didn't want to add a level of complexity to the post but it's the interface that actually determines whether a drive is considered SATA or IDE. What we call a "SATA drive" should actually read "SATA-ready". So it sounds like the present drive should really kick into gear with the next tower upgrade. If it's big enough, it should make for a dandy backup drive. A post on that's coming up in a bit. I confess, I have never done drive imaging, perhaps because I have never experienced a hard drive failure, so didn't see the need. For reference, I use the backup DVDs made before reinstalling. (Nero). Several weeks ago I went to an old backup DVD from several years ago to retrieve a DB version I had lost. Version control, version control...
Maybe I should start the image deal as a just in case. If I were that concerned about the IDE/SATA deal with the antiquated IDE interface on my computer, I would buy myself a new computer, which appears to me the only way to solve it. I doubt there is a $20 part which will cure it. There is a consequence to hanging onto old computers. I will keep on w the old Dell as "good enough" w double the original memory, etc., etc. I originally decided to hold out until Vista was replaced, but now I figure I will wait some more. Perhaps before 2014, which I understand is when MS will stop upgrading XP. I had originally bought the Dell w $$ added for customer support and warranty. When I waited nearly an hour to speak to a Dell representative, I decided to cancel the service contract. As the Dell hardware has been pretty reliable, I have no regrets on that move. Search for N82E16815280003 at newegg.com, it's a PCI sata card. Would link directly but the markup is too aggressive in the comments.
$20 part that solves your problem. Additional complications come from having an IDE bus that isn't integrated into your chipset, but probably shouldn't be a problem. Gringo - Image files aren't for drive failures, they're for Windows melt-downs. They're also handy should a drive actually turn belly-up, of course, but usually they're used when Windows has blown a gasket. Or, to be fair, when some crappily-programmed app causes Windows to blow a gasket. And it only takes a few minutes, which beats the hell out of reinstalling Windows and all that.
Re: the IDE/RAID thing, if the PCI card allows it to operate as a (real) SATA drive, it might mean the speed difference as displayed in the first graph. That is, you wouldn't get the blinding RAID speed as in the second graph, but it'd still be a major leap. For $20, you might give it a shot, and, being hardware (not software), they might take it back if it doesn't do dick, performance-wise. Yep, it's worth a shot. Thanks, epv. And thanks for the feedback, Dr. M.
I see the point now about image drives. Gringo -
"I see the point now about image drives." I call it "cleaning the bathroom". QUOTE: Your computer has melted down. All it takes is one little video driver file to become corrupt and poof! It's off to the shop for a week and — $250 later — it's working again. And our wildly different reactions when our computers crash? You: Oh, no! My computer's broken! The last time this happened it was gone for a week and cost me $250! I'm too busy right now! This is a nightmare! What am I going to do?? Gawd, I hate computers!!!!! Me: Dang! Now I have to clean the bathroom! Pretty amazing, eh? If you, yourself, would prefer cleaning the bathroom for 10 minutes while your computer is being restored, rather than having it spend an expensive week in the shop, then please... That's from my backup post. Actually, with a faster drive and the new True Image 2010, it's only about 5 minutes. And the real twist to the story is, these days when I notice my bathroom is filthy, I think, "Gee, I sure hope my system melts down soon!" Last time I had to re-activate my GNU/Linux install, I called Linus. He picked up right away and cheerfully gave me the code. I really do appreciate the great customer service.
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