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Sunday, July 26. 2009
14:1 Fools say in their hearts, "There is no God." They are corrupt, they do abominable deeds; there is no one who does good.
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"Fools say in their hearts, "There is no God." They are corrupt, they do abominable deeds; there is no one who does good."
I'd say you'd have to look at the evidence on this one.
14:3 They have all gone astray, they are all alike perverse; there is no one who does good, no, not one.
All alike perverse? Me, Obambi, the pope, and obl?
No one who does good, no, not one? Well with "inspiration" like this, not much use in trying, is there? Read somewhere that you sow that which you reap...hmmm....where did I see that? Of course considering the author sent his lover's husband on a suicide mission, I suppose I could see how he might see it that way.
Fools who say, "There is no God."
"There is no God." is the first utterance in Muhammadans testimony, shahada, the first pilar of Islam.
BS. Context of preceding verse:
"The LORD looks down from heaven on humankind to see if there are any who are wise, who seek after God."
Addresses the whole lot. Or so says the author, who I wouldn't trust for a minute. As for your mussleman quote, taken out of context. Believe what you want, but bugger off homo.
God cares because he is faithful to His promises which he swore to Abraham.
Leag, God says you can only get to heaven through Jesus Christ.
Therefore, Jews don't get the invite. Same with Muslims. That Abrahamic god thing doesn't do much good for ya unless you're packing Jesus.
Actually, Lucy, Jews were first to receive Jesus' invite.
Their calling and election is purely owing to Jesus' mercy.
There shall come out of Sion, he that shall deliver, and shall turn away ungodliness from Jacob. And this is to them my covenant: when I shall take away their sins.
Piffle. Jesus absconded with the Jew's god. They had him first. Not that it did them any good considering now they're not allowed in heaven.
"Their calling and election is purely owing to Jesus' mercy. "
What does that mean, honey? That Jesus coulda killed all the Jews but didn't? Maybe he was waiting for the Germans.
Jesus IS the Jew's GOD, Lucy.
Tell again what yall were doin' in bible school, please.
I don't believe in him; he's just a comfortable
acquaintance, a close associate with whom I can
be myself. To believe in him would place him in
the center of the universe when he's more secure
in the fringes, the farthest corner so that he
doesn't have to look over his shoulder to nab the
backstabbers who want promotions but are tired of
waiting for him to die and set in motion the natural
evolution. God doesn't want to evolve. Has been
against evolution from its creation. He doesn't
figure many possibilities are open to him. I think
he's just wise to bide his time although he pales in the
moonlight to just a glow, just the warmth of hot
chocolate spreading through the body like a subcutaneous
halo. But to trust him implicitly would
be a mistake for he then would not have to maintain
his worthiness to be God. Even the thinnest,
flyweight modicum of doubt gives God the necessity
to prove he's worthy of the implicit trust I can
never give because I protect him from corruption,
from the complacence that rises within him sometimes,
a shadowy ever-descending brother.
Well, I'm an atheist. I work in a food kitchen at my local church (they don't seem to care what I believe if I want to help). I donate approximately 5% of my income to charity, even though I'm a college student. I'm an AF vet who served in Iraq and Kuwait (Kuwait being significantly less impressive, but still). I don't really think "They are corrupt, they do abominable deeds; there is no one who does good" applies to me, but whatever...
This is an awful translation.
"company of the righteous"?
This self-important translation totally misses the almost conversational rhythm and direct tone of the Hebrew original. It turns a good man's angry rant - spoken at eye level - into a sour, condescending sermon.
Oh, and y'all can go on debating whether we Jews get pie in the sky when we die - while you wait another 2 millenia for "the king of the Jews" to "come back".
Meanwhile G-d kept his covenant with us, and brought us home.
Let me provide the Unquestionable Source For All Knowledge Godly And Otherwise...AKA the "King James" version (and don't you dare question it, for it is sacred and pure and uncorrupted by mankind...or so thought in many parts)...Let me know if it's less self-important and/or closer to the Hebrew:
1The fool hath said in his heart, There is no God. They are corrupt, they have done abominable works, there is none that doeth good.
2The LORD looked down from heaven upon the children of men, to see if there were any that did understand, and seek God.
3They are all gone aside, they are all together become filthy: there is none that doeth good, no, not one.
4Have all the workers of iniquity no knowledge? who eat up my people as they eat bread, and call not upon the LORD.
5There were they in great fear: for God is in the generation of the righteous.
6Ye have shamed the counsel of the poor, because the LORD is his refuge.
7Oh that the salvation of Israel were come out of Zion! when the LORD bringeth back the captivity of his people, Jacob shall rejoice, and Israel shall be glad.
King James is beautiful, and you can't blame it for not being colloquial by our modern standards.
Accuracy? Each translation gets some things better.
Hebrew is just much more compact than English - and this Psalm's angry, direct tone is a very good example of just how terse it can be.
For example: in verse 1 "they are corrupt" and "they have done abominable deeds" are each just one word in Hebrew: reflexive, intransitive forms of roots meaning "corrupt/destroy" and "repulsive/perverse". No mention of works or actions - they describe what the evil have done to themselves.
The closest I could get in English is "corrupted, defiled themselves." (note there's no "and"- it's like the speaker just bursts out with each word in anger.)
Similarly, "there is no one who does good" is an accurate translation, but in Hebrew it's just three short words - more like "none do good" in its effect, even though that's a less literal translation. Maybe "no one does good" is the closest in English.
Verse 1: both "hath said" and "says" are valid translations. In context, I'd go with "says".
Verse 2: King James is wrong, the Lord "looks" down. But "children of men" is better - the Hebrew for "human" is literally "child of Adam". Adam being a common synonym for "man" or "person". In this verse it's literally "sons of Adam".
I'd also combine elements of both versions to get: "to see if there is one who understands, and seeks G-d."
I understand why the translators went with the implied plural "any" - but the original is singular, and this reinforces the "no one" and "not even one" of other verses.
Again - this is much fewer words in Hebrew. "if there is" and "one who understands" are each one word.
Verse 3: King James' "gone aside" is closer. The telegraphic style of the original omits the subject "they" and literally means "All turn aside". And the whole verse is in the present tense - something that shifts in the translations.
I don't know where the 1st version got "perverse" - King James is closer with "filthy" - could also be rendered as lousy/miserable.
I'd render it as "they are altogether filthy/corrupt" which captures the sense of "alike" while being more literal, since the word in Hebrew is "together".
I don't know why the translators didn't close with the literal and effective "not even one".
Verse 4: "workers of iniquity" is just the sort of sermonizing that I meant. In Hebrew it comes out in choppy phrases, like someone ranting unprepared:
Don't they know, all evildoers, eating my people (like) eating bread, on G-d they call not.
The word "like" is not in the Hebrew - it's assumed from the doubled "eating". See? a terse rant.
Verse 5: Don't know where "generation OF the righteous" came from. I have:
There they feared greatly, for G-d is in the righteous generation.
"feared greatly" is literally "feared a fear". Maybe you'd say "feared up a terror" in English. Like "cook up a..." or "scrape up a... "
Verse 6: Both "but" and "because" are mistranslations that obscure the meaning. The Hebrew says:
They shame the counsel of the poor, that the Lord is his refuge.
In other words - the wicked undermine the poor one's conviction that G-d is his refuge.
"Because" renders the verse incomprehensible to me.
The modern translator's "confound" is a nice idea - the word literally means both "shame" and "spoil/rot".
Verse 7: Who can argue with the sweep of the King James version? "Oh that it were come" is a very nice rendering of an untranslatable Hebrew idiom that literally means "who would grant" (that this thing should happen= if only it would happen).
My wife points out that "the fool" could also be rendered as "the profligate" - it literally means "hollow". The same word is used for a wineskin or a wind instrument.
Thank you very much, sir. Quite interesting as my only language experiences are Western European. Hebrew being such an old language and terse language seems to leave much open to interpretation. Do you know of any good (somewhat pedestrian) books on the subject?
Hebrew is very easy to learn, much moreso than Arabic. Both the Hebrew alphabet and grammar have been simplified over time, while Arabic remains almost as complex as Russian.
Israel successfully teaches Hebrew to thousands of adult immigrants every year. It was required study for many of America's founding fathers, together with Latin and Greek.
For English speakers. it is blessedly phonetic and follows simple rules of pronunciation and grammar.
Does it leave room for interpretation? I would describe it as setting off ripples of secondary meaning - like tossing a pebble into water.
Everything is built on short roots of 2 or 3 consonants. Verb, noun, and adjective forms are all created by changing how the root is vowelized/voiced, or by tacking on prefixes and suffixes.
So the roots radiate meaning, and imply a range of related associations/meanings each time they are used.