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Thursday, July 16. 2009
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No wonder nobody goes to Epsicopalian churches anymore. They aren't about God. They are about politics.
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>>They are about politics.
True. Various described as "Social Workers with Clerical Collars," "Liturgical Unitarians," or the late Flip Wilson's "Church of What's Happening Now."
There's a lot more wrong with them than just their politics, IMHO.
Ya don't say! The last ten years in the Episcopal church has been the most powerful struggle for control story since Henry VIII and almost as bloody!
I still go to an Episcopalian Church, in a conservative diocese, where no one tries to feed us any of this nonsense. They know that, if they did, we'd just break off and go with the new Anglican Church, as other churches in the Western Diocese of Texas already have done.
The real hope for them is in the developing world, particularly Africa. Example: there supposedly are a greater number of (traditional) Anglicans in Nigeria than in the whole of the UK. These churches are growing dramatically and it is there that we should look for the future direction of the denomination - not among the dwindling congregations of the Northern Hemisphere, with the exception of the breakaway churches in the US, as noted by Texan99 above. What form this global conservative church will take we don't yet know. Though anything would be an improvement...
And I should add that I have heard far better sermons in East African Anglican churches than in anything in the US. At least those guys can string together a few cogent sentences when in the pulpit. :-)
From generations of Anglicans, have a 24 year old MDiv from an Episcopal seminary, am now a former Episcopalian. The Episcopalians have lost their way into PC spiritual irrelevance. Still some awesome African Anglican clergy and congregations (our son baptized by a Tanzanian bishop who meant it when he anointed him w oil and prayed that God would protect him from the Evil One, and guide him into God's pastures to live forever).
All my peers (except me and a handful of fellow conservative AngloCatholics from seminary) are still in the ministry, or liberal seminary professors, PC, more preoccupied w politcs, global warming, victim identities, and bashing the US and Israel than with preaching Christ, Crucified and Risen.
And don't get me started on the preoccupation w alternative lifestyles and contempt for the institution of heterosexual marriage, for patriotism or for serving one's country in the military...Or being weasels on the sanctity of life.
What made us finally leave were these two things: first, receiving no pastoral care from our Episcopal parish during a hellish year when our son was in and out of hospital aged eight, and second (several years later) when it emerged that our daughters' Anglican choir master of 8 years was a pedophile (boys, but that didn't lessen the girls' fury at a church that focussed on legal damage control and preaching "forgiveness" for the perpetrator. His had been a pattern of perversion for over 30 years, bringing child prostitutes to church facilities, etc. Although I was not surprised at the church's worldly-wise reaction, it alienated my kids completely as the vestry scampered to do damage control.
We now belong to the evangelical Congregational church that embraced us eight years ago when our son was so ill, prayed, helped heal and welcomed us. We love its good preaching, good people, all types politically, ethnically, classes. I am a lay reader and teach Sunday School every week and try to help out with new parents of other special ed kids as a volunteer. It's focussed more on Word than Sacrament. I do still miss a solemn High Mass and Anglican music, but would rather worship with sincere people and awful music than go back to the soulless former church).
I don't comment here much any more, lest I elicit the wrath of a certain commenter who is offended by me, but it is tragic how a power grab has destroyed much of a Church my family loved and supported for centuries.
Skook, am glad there are still good parishes in Texas keeping the faith.
We've missed you.
Yes, there are some parishes not only in Texas but throughout North America that now have a loose affiliation with various African provinces, but the whole place is rudderless and confused. I'm looking for someplace to land. Glad you found a good one.
I am more Theist than Christian but I attend a Methodist church. The Episcopal Church seems to have fully forgotten or abandoned the point of a spiritual community: sharing and developing faith, nurturing those who seek to understand God and God's will. That's what happens, I guess, when their nearest equivalent to the pope is not a Christian.
Most of the signers of the Declaration of Independence were [url=http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Episcopal_Church_(United_States)]Episcopalian[/url].
In any event, my ancestors were Dissenters.
I'm sorry if I have my facts wrong but isn't this the denomination that is confirming gay bishops? If so then yes there is more wrong here than politics.
My (Episcopal) church is about both Word and Sacrament. Our rector resolutely avoids politics from the pulpit. The congregation is deeply involved in local charity but there's never any talk of anything I'd call social justice or PC drivel. I suppose the local bishop is more of the old-fashioned sort, but in any case we choose our own rector and we always choose one who preaches Christ crucified and risen and present in our real lives. I hope everyone out there reading these comments doesn't assume there's nothing left of the Episcopal Church. I suspect things are very different in the Northeastern U.S.
We haven't had any scandals lately, but I'm confident the Vestry and the congregation wouldn't wink at one. In this small town, if you molested children, your main concern wouldn't be that the Episcopal Church would disapprove of you, it would be that you'd be shot.
AP, we've agreed about so much over the years, and, like you, am glad to hear that there are still traditional parishes worshipping and teaching about God rather than PC twaddle or socialism. Have near zero ability to post anything over the weekend (every now and then, one bar on the cellphone, our only link from our hilltop place. ) But you all have posted great comments on this!
Brought up Episcopalian, and loved it for years. twenty years ago, I switched to the Lutheran church, becuase they have the music and liturgy I love w/ less of the politics I despise.
In my local Lutheran church, there are a bunch of Republicans, and a bunch of Democrats , and we all get along, becuase in this context, Christ comes first. On a national level, the Lutherans are going the same way as the Episcopalians, but they are 20 years behind them, and on a local level, I love my church.
Just to tell you my story. The Lutheran liturgy is close to my Episcopalian heart. I'll never go back to the Episcopalians.
Yeah, the Lutes are OK. For me, one of three things may happen. The Anglican global south could make a break and actually stand on its own. That would be nice. I'm not holding my breath, though. But if it did, I might join them. The traditional Lutherans are the second option. Or number three, I swim the Tiber.
For me now the meditation takes place on the eastern front of the Rockies. The faith instilled as a child will always be there.
What's happened to the Episcopal and Catholic churches is a good example of the insidious effect of marxism. Its stated goals and aspirations are, on the face of it, very similar to the goals and aspirations of Christianity: truth, justice, brotherhood, etc.
In reality, neither the ends nor the means are related. Christianity is fundamentally optimistic and brings freedom, hope and dignity; marxism is fundamentally pessimistic and fatalistic, and brings enslavement and despair.
Those who don't really think too deeply about it are easily fooled.
Me, I'm Orthodox. It has its idiosyncrasies, but the focus is strictly on God.
The Holy Bible was written for all mankind..not only for
When you get out of your car in the parking lot,
take note of how many people have a Bible tucked under their arm as they enter the worship center or sanctuary.
The Bible..(God's word) was written for and to YOU.
It's YOUR book, to cross-check the man in the pulpit.
If he is not reading and teaching from that book, LEAVE.
and find a Bible believing church.