We are a commune of inquiring, skeptical, politically centrist, capitalist, anglophile, traditionalist New England Yankee humans, humanoids, and animals with many interests beyond and above politics. Each of us has had a high-school education (or GED), but all had ADD so didn't pay attention very well, especially the dogs. Each one of us does "try my best to be just like I am," and none of us enjoys working for others, including for Maggie, from whom we receive neither a nickel nor a dime. Freedom from nags, cranks, government, do-gooders, control-freaks and idiots is all that we ask for.
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Wednesday, October 3. 2007
Hey, all you visitors from Dr. Helen, Hot Air, etc: Check around our blog while you are visiting. You might like us. We even have a shrink who posts
This personal ad,†and the reply, are said to have appeared on Craig's List personals:
What am I doing wrong?
The good reply below on continuation page. (Photo is not the gal who wrote the personal ad. This is one of Theo's girlfriends.)
I hope this is helpful, and if you want to enter into some sort oflease, let me know.
What a piece of crap.
+1 for honesty. -32 for being a whore. Dating Economics: Buying vs. Leasing - Maggie's Farm This personal ad, and the reply, are said to have appeared on Craig's List personals: What am I doing wrong? Okay, I'm tired of beating around the bush. I'm a beautiful (spectacularly beautiful) 25 year old girl. I'm articulate and classy. I'm not from New York. I'm looking to get married to a guy who makes at least half a million a year. I know how that sounds, but keep in mind that a million a year is middle class in New York City, so I don't think I'm overreaching at all. Poor little skank. I hope she succeeds. Then, in 5 years the creeping "uh oh" will start setting in and she won't know what's wrong. She'll no doubt think her financier doesn't make enough money. What the fuck is wrong with people....
Weblog: The Universal Church of Cosmic Uncertainty
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LOL--if Helen of Troy had been that shallow, there'd've never been a Trojan War.
It's not just the money, it's the measuring herself by what other people have that's going to kill her. The woman is doomed.
I'm old fashioned. You marry for one of two reasons (ideally for both at once): either because you are hopelessly, passionately, romantically in love with someone and can't live without them (the best reason) or you have made an honest and lifelong commitment to someone you hope to raise good children with, and give a stable home to. Beyond enough money for food and shelter, and some minimal independence from interfering inlaws, the only issue is can you both commit forever.
I still can't understand women like this one, even though I live amidst them in my glitzy suburban ghetto. They find me just as alien, I am sure.
As for the guy, he might want to remember that decent women do not care a hoot how much money a guy makes beyond minimal self-sufficiency and the ability to feed and educate a family. They are not impressed by more. It is usually about impressing other guys. Also, to be fair, men are wasting assets too. There are those of us who prefer to marry for love, sex and the good stuff, and definitely men fade with age, just as women do, and all that's then left are the tamer things like loyalty, companionship, memories....Also, no man these days can be sure of continuing to make more and more money or even of staying employed, so the hubris of the man replying is amusing!
They should probably get married to each other (keep all the rotten apples in the same barrel).
But what do I know!? My idea of a good time is coaching a kid to try and pass a service fitness test. Wonderfuly distracts from selfish and materialistic preoccupations...
I wonder if she's considered hanging around the funerals for rich people. She could drop the hankie she's pretending to blow her nose with.
Since the young lady's goals appear strictly mercenary, she might want to follow the career of Air Force Amy. With wise investments and hard work, she should be able to afford her own Central Park West apartment.
There's always the pre-nup, tho if either party wants one, they both ought to run for the hills instead of getting married.
BL, you are so right. Pre-nups are an expression of lack of faith in the relationship enduring. They are only a good idea for older people who already have kids and who are re-marrying, to preserve the inheritance from a former spouse. Then it may help soothe suspicious kids who fear that dad has fallen into the clutches of a golddigging bimbo, even if she is actually sweet as pie...
A friend told me about this post knowing that Iíd find it amusing since I just remarried. Iím in my early sixties in good health and she her mid fifties. Sheís attractive and smart and when she loses her looks I donít mind having her around because I love her, she has a beautiful character. We share common values, thatís important to me in later life and it works better with the rest of our family. She takes good care of me too which Iím not complaining about. We have an active life, go to parties, charity functions, symphony, travel, garden, visit with grandchildren and have a great private life.
She made out well. I have assets in the high eight figures but she didnít gold-dig and I didnít buy her. There are plenty of rich middle-aged farts like me who do well in business and life who want to share their wealth with interesting women, beautiful or plain. Why the hell not? I wouldnít be interested in a young woman at this point, though, no matter what she looked like. Youth and looks arenít evrything, I need compatible companionship at this stage of my life. Any woman gorgeous or not who is good with men and who knows how to treat them right has it made, and can write there ticket.
The young woman who wrote the classified ad just needs to think more along the lines of developing her interests and genuine charm. It needs to be genuine charm and she needs to cultivate some depth. She should make good friends for her personal life and business prospects. There are wealthy men all over big cities and suburbia and shes bound to bump into more than a few if she gets out and is patient. One day she could have children who are well taken care of, mine are because their mother, RIP, married me and married well.
I have a son and two daughters. The girls got this same advice and today they are wonderful wives and mothers, one a physician and the other a musician, living richly blessed lives.
Man. It makes me appreciate what I've got - through thick and thin, all these years.. It may be time to send her some flowers at work. :-)
You're a lucky man, Perry --in addition to being richer than four feet up a bull's ass --
I believe that somewhere in Manhattan this girl has a shrine to Joan Collins.
--read somewhere recently that when Joan Collins first came to Hollywood, she slept with so many mentors her nickname was "the British Open".
Wow. I've heard of trophy wives, but never actually read anyone aspiring to be one. I love the man's brutally honest response to the woman's shallow post.
And I have a hard time believing that $1 million/year is "middle class" in New York. Central Park West is not middle class.
Somehow all of this makes me keep hearing Hall and Oates' "Rich Girl" in my head...
Her view of middle class has been a bit distorted by her years in Manhattan. You are right - as a general rule, CPW is not middle class except in the NYC/Manhattan sense, where fabulous wealth is so abundant and 2 bedroom apartments with a doorman cost 2 million and up.
Yes, Skookumchuk, send the flowers.
If the 25 year old expects anything more in life than wham, bam, thank you ma'am, she certainly has a long way to go, with much to learn. To earn that kind of money, or spend your life with one who does, seems to me you have to "become" the type person yourself - either capable of the one, or deserving of the other. I don't see that in her.
However, if she is the one on the aed with the twin doppler radar domes, I'm good for one date, anyway.
Regarding our girl's mystification that "Plain Janes" actually are married to the financial alpha males she seeks, I guess it's not occured to her that these men might be every bit as mercenary as she. Sure they have their own big bucks, but, just as she's willing to set aside physical attributes in favor of wealth, they too might seek to double thier fortunes rather than pursue a trophy wife. They can always have a mistress on the side.
As to advice I have this: A high school classmate of mine had a very specific target in mind and scored a direct hit by attending the same church as her mark. She's now an ex-Mrs Trump.
I find it interesting that only one commenter mentioned the Plain Janes. I was appalled at the stupidity of the 25-year-old's disdain for women who don't meet her standards for beauty. Only an idiot would think that plain women have nothing to offer, that they aren't interesting or funny or loving or smart or beautiful to her husband--and only an idiot would assume that a wealthy man is interested only in how pretty his wife is.
Mango's comment seems to agree with the young empty-headed woman. I guess there's enough stupidity to go around...
There was great wisdom in a Calypso-flavored pop tune of the 50s whose title was "Never Make a Pretty Woman Your Wife."
Assuming she is as hot as she says she is, lots of men (for various reasons) marry golddiggers.
The man simply has to:
1. have rock solid prenup
2. give her an allowance of limited funds distributed
3. have her manage the household
4. whatever other duties he decides for her
Happens all of the time. Nothing new here. She'll get an offer sooner or later, although I doubt things will work out as she thinks they will. She'll live "the life", but will have no security/love/etc...
There have been several posts that claim that pre-nups are some how bad. These people seem to be unaware that when you get married you are already signing a legally binding contract, the terms of which most people are fairly ignorant of. All a pre-nup does is allow you to negotiate a fair deal. I think that every person who gets married should be shown what legal obligation they are committing themselves to.
The woman making the original offer provides the perfect case for a pre-nup. She is making a clear business offer... she is trading her good looks and (ahem...) intelligence for money. The odds are pretty good that after a few years (at most) she will divorce this guy and take half his assets. Clearly he needs a contract that says she can enjoy his wealth as long as they stay married but if she leaves then she walks away with nothing. From her perspective, she should insist on a clause that if he leaves her (as her beauty fades) then she should get some monetary compensation.
Re: #17. I agree sort of, if one thinks of marriage solely as a contract. However binding. Personally, I consider marriage a covenant, a commitment entered into not merely legally but also spiritually, under God, etc. I can't find any good links on this, most of them are kind of icky fundy ones that would have had me running screaming for the hills as a newly engaged person....But I still believe that the important part of the relationship is not the exchange of promises and penalties for breaking them legally, but the huge leap of faith it takes to make those marriage vows, how truly impossible they are in our own strength, how only with God's help can we approach it...
On a more mundane note, it is a very bad sign if a person enters a marriage having looked more carefully for the EXIT sign than deciding whether to go in at all. I endeavoured unsuccessfully to explain this to my sneering agnostic first born this weekend who was playing devil's advocate arguing the "If it isn't fun, why do it..." point of view. But it's a fairly common approach. I remember during our own fairly useless premarital counselling with a PC Congregationalist female minister recommended to us by a long married relative she asked us no hard questions about why we were marrying each other, or how we imagined coping with potential disasters in future together, but instead merely grilled us on would we each feel free to remarry in the event that one spouse died first....Huh?
In subsequent years as we contended with floods, unemployement, disabled kid, career failures, political and religious differences, financial reverses, middle age, etc. we used to laugh sometimes about the cluelessness of that unmarried minister, and at our naivete in thinking that marriage would be an easier life than life alone. As my best friend tiresomely reminds me, marriage is for grownups. When most of us would rather remain forever young, irresponsible and selfish. I suspect that any virtues or strengths of character that I possess have been developed in the effort to live out part of those marital vows and/or to be a good parent despite my own natural selfishness and sloth.
I have neve understood why people who lust after gorgeous gold diggers bother marrying them. I can see why the golddigger wants marriage, as she hopes to extract a huge divorce settlement and is planning on it while choosing the wedding menu...But from the man's perspective, in an age when you can always find some female willing to sleep with (why buy the cow, etc.) why marry them? Surely you want someone with a good character to be choosing your nursing home after raising after your children and being your daily companion (hopefully able to make you laugh) thru the stresses and travails of life? If you long for someone mercenary who is gorgeous (nothing wrong with that) go out with her, sleep with her if you must, but for God's sake don't begin a relationship that will likely bring children into the world whose life will be messed up by parents whose interest in each other was a commercial exchange.
I say this, knowing that I am no shining example of blissful Christian marriage. My spouse and I in youth fell into the reasonably attractive, healthy category, both highly educated, husband initially a high earner, myself more the humanitarian making very little wages in a vocation with long hours and great satisfactions. I was a sure bet for someone who wanted a spouse who would nurture his children and be uninterested in walking away in a divorce with half his money. What I hope we have taught our children, despite some horrendous troubles, and more than our fair share of sickness, plus predictable job stresses,etc is that keeping one's promises matters. You don't have to be religious fundy or a barnacle to believe that (barring physical abuse, other criminal behavior, chronical infidelity, or unremitted substance abuse) sticking together is A Good Thing. Both of us grew up in families where multiple generations of children had been scarred by the narcissism of parental divorces that literally blew the children's worlds apart. My parents stuck together (partly in horrified reaction) for 52 difficult but loving years until death. Both people were improved, if not always thrilled by the experience. It was certainly better for us kids.
We could never understand why Elizabeth Taylor kept marrying her paramours. Trivializing marriage.
Off to work, aware that I am no poster child.
If you marry for money, you'll earn every penny. Same goes for dating relationships, etc.
First of all, he is logically wrong, "beauty" is not equal to "youth", there are beautiful 40's women and crappy 25's ones, furthermore "beauty" does not decrease with time (age does, but not beauty) -think of all the Paul Newman's or Rachael Welch's -
Second, he is missing a key point on financial theory: RISK, only hedge fund managers make that insane amount of money and 98% of all hedge fund managers end up bankrupt within 2 years, thus it seems to me that the 25 something girl is more likely to make a bad deal marrying a 500k x 2 years guy than a 75k x 10 years guy, do the maths and add compounded interest return of 5% on the 75k ;-) furthermore I don't even see why marriage is a bad deal, he can always divorce, with a pre-nuptial agreement it would not impact his current or future income.
Third, efficient markets? give me a break!! on one hand we live in a world ruled by the FED's, ECBs, quants using the same pricing algorithms and a uniformity of investment theories taught in business schools, efficient markets is a total fallacy, on the other hand the basic assumption for efficient markets is that information is know to all parties, however this girl's posting looking for a rich partner proves that there's no freedom of information, thus she would know where to go to get that rich folk she seems to be chasing
And last and probably the most important one: he is such an AS, paraphrasing Martin Gecko from "Wall Street" (the movie), not even his dog would be his friend!!"
When I was young and before I moved to the Big City I would not have believed there really were people like this one. On my first job I became friends with the telephone operator who had in earlier days been a model. She showed me magazines where she was on the cover wearing hats by Hattie Carnegie and other top designers.
She was the living embodiment of this young woman. She still thought she could find Mr Rich Guy and she was definitely fading in her 40's. She was fairly nice but everything was evaluated by the dollar value only. She would go out to the fashionable bars to meet people. This was in the 1960's and her favorite hangouts were the St Regis and the Pierre bars. She would tell me stories about some of the guys she met and what they expected that I took with a grain of salt but there was a bit of truth there.
The only saving grace for her was that her parents were very wealthy and had bought her a studio apartment in the East 60's so she was set from that standpoint. I moved on in the job market and lost touch but I sometimes wondered whatever happened to her. I would guess she ended up as a bitter old woman and alone unless she changed her tactics.
She needs to read some Henry Makow, immediately! Poor thing is a shallower than a mud puddle; this is the result of femi-naziism in the schools, leaving these people in perpetual dysfunction for the rest of their lives, unless they wake up somehow.
this has been just another scheme. either buying or leasing, both has to be done under a legal process not in shortcuts. there is this site which has been a great help for me, it provides great assistance in all you need and want: