Maggie's FarmWe are a commune of inquiring, skeptical, politically centrist, capitalist, anglophile, traditionalist New England Yankee humans, humanoids, and animals with many interests beyond and above politics. Each of us has had a high-school education (or GED), but all had ADD so didn't pay attention very well, especially the dogs. Each one of us does "try my best to be just like I am," and none of us enjoys working for others, including for Maggie, from whom we receive neither a nickel nor a dime. Freedom from nags, cranks, government, do-gooders, control-freaks and idiots is all that we ask for. |
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Saturday, October 4. 2008DeathWhy humans are unable to imagine death: Scientific American. But we do imagine it, don't we? Or try? The Mayans viewed it as floating on a foggy ocean, and I like that image. We Christians have no clear image of Paradise, other than being "with" God - whatever that means. Trackbacks
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"Why humans are unable to imagine death." Not true.
Only some. Others know perfectly well what it means if Obama wins on November 4th. But more than imagining.
http://www.iands.org/ "Death is different from what anyone imagined, and luckier." Walt Whitman The Death of Sir John 'Fat Jack' Falstaff
Henry V Act II Scene iii PISTOL. No; for my manly heart doth earn. Bardolph, be blithe; Nym, rouse thy vaunting veins; Boy, bristle thy courage up. For Falstaff he is dead, And we must earn therefore. BARDOLPH. Would I were with him, wheresome'er he is, either in heaven or in hell! HOSTESS. Nay, sure, he's not in hell: he's in Arthur's bosom, if ever man went to Arthur's bosom. 'A made a finer end, and went away an it had been any christom child; 'a parted ev'n just between twelve and one, ev'n at the turning o' th' tide; for after I saw him fumble with the sheets, and play with flowers, and smile upon his fingers' end, I knew there was but one way; for his nose was as sharp as a pen, and 'a babbl'd of green fields. 'How now, Sir John!' quoth I 'What, man, be o' good cheer.' So 'a cried out 'God, God, God!' three or four times. Now I, to comfort him, bid him 'a should not think of God; I hop'd there was no need to trouble himself with any such thoughts yet. So 'a bade me lay more clothes on his feet; I put my hand into the bed and felt them, and they were as cold as any stone; then I felt to his knees, and so upward and upward, and all was as cold as any stone. NYM. They say he cried out of sack. HOSTESS. Ay, that 'a did. BARDOLPH. And of women. HOSTESS. Nay, that 'a did not. BOY. Yes, that 'a did, and said they were devils incarnate. HOSTESS. 'A could never abide carnation; 'twas a colour he never liked. BOY. 'A said once the devil would have him about women. HOSTESS. 'A did in some sort, indeed, handle women; but then he was rheumatic, and talk'd of the Whore of Babylon. BOY. Do you not remember 'a saw a flea stick upon Bardolph's nose, and 'a said it was a black soul burning in hell? BARDOLPH. Well, the fuel is gone that maintain'd that fire: that's all the riches I got in his service. NYM. Shall we shog? The King will be gone from Southampton. PISTOL. Come, let's away. My love, give me thy lips. Look to my chattles and my moveables; Let senses rule. The word is 'Pitch and Pay.' Trust none; For oaths are straws, men's faiths are wafer-cakes, And Holdfast is the only dog, my duck. Therefore, Caveto be thy counsellor. Go, clear thy crystals. Yoke-fellows in arms, Let us to France, like horse-leeches, my boys, To suck, to suck, the very blood to suck. BOY. And that's but unwholesome food, they say. PISTOL. Touch her soft mouth and march. BARDOLPH. Farewell, hostess. [Kissing her] NYM. I cannot kiss, that is the humour of it; but adieu. PISTOL. Let housewifery appear; keep close, I thee command. HOSTESS. Farewell; adieu. "In the afterlife you could be headed for the serious strife
Now you make the scene all day But tomorrow there'll be hell to pay People listen attentively I mean about future calamity I used to think the idea was obsolete Until I heard the old man stamping his feet "This is a place where eternally Fire is applied to the body Teeth are extruded and bones are ground Then baked into cakes which are passed around "Beauty, talent, fame, money, refinement Top skill and brain But all the things you try to hide Will be revealed on the other side "Now the D and the A and the M And the N and the A and the T and the I O N Lose your face, lose your name Then get fitted for a suit of flame" That's one perspective at least, brought to you courtesy of the Squirrel Nut Zippers. Perhaps though, the afterlife is nothingness, hmmm? Oh, no, no, no, no my friends. In the afterlife the streets are paved with gold. There's a jewel bedecked crown of gold waiting for me in a place where the lion will lay with the lamb. Friends, I have my ticket to eternal sunshine; a ticket to a glorious ever-after. Do you? (Hey! Has anyone seen my wallet? I put my ticket in my wallet, but I can't seem to find... Damn.) The idea is to die young as late as possible. ~Ashley Montagu
Love the quote from Ashley Montagu, a fine man, a bold thinker, who wrote a seminal book, The Natural Superiority of Women, published back in the 1950s. If you haven't read it, you should. Both good things and bad things flowed from his advocacy of the special talents women have, but I think he would be appalled at the way some so-called feminists are treating men today, denigrating their special talents and disrespecting their uniqueness. I love men for those qualities -- but then, I'm lucky enough to be married to a man who has them.
Marianne "Why humans are unable to imagine death:"
Why? Probably because we have nothing to compare it to. Since we're on the subject, here's a heretical thought that came to me much later in life than my ego is comfortable with...and one that will likely get me pilloried here, but hey, you only live once....
Having been raised in a Christian oriented society and a very MOR religious background (with the exception of 3 years of fundamentalist marginal nutcase parochial school instruction) it has continuously been impressed upon me the suffering and the sacrifice that one Jesus of Nazareth went through to pay for my sins (though I, like those who informed me, had yet to be born for 2000 years). Yet here was this god/demi-god/whathave you who had full and complete knowledge that his "doom" was just a temporary state. How was he "dying" for me? Yet on the other hand, the basic freedoms and tremendous comfort and security we enjoy was, and continuously is, paid for with the lives of people we will never (and through the centuries, never had the opportunity to) meet. These people, even at the extreme levels of faith had not a tiny percentage of the assurance that Mr. JC had about any afterlife. Many of them suffered/were tortured for weeks, months, years, or even decades. Why do I worship him and not them? Yes, he may have inspired many of them, but surely not all. And, yes many of them suffered to protect those they cared about more than those of us they would never meet, but again, not all. But in my mind, they made a much greater sacrifice than JC ever did. You may fire when ready, Gridley... KRW,
Why is that heretical thought? By whose standard of heresy? If your ego is ansty about your thoughts, why are you okay with dying for them? Sounds to me as if your ego is doing fine. ` Meta,
Heretical by the standards of those far more faithful than myself. By my own standards, there are no heretical thoughts except possibly those in defiance of reason...though quantum physics gives pause in that domain as well. I've found that my standards seem to be unique to the point of being irrelevant, especially in matters such as this. My ego isn't antsy about my "heretical" thoughts, it was just caught by surprise that it took so long to question what faith and death mean in this context, which now seems kind of obvious. Re your response to mare, properly and succinctly stated. KRW,
"I've found that my standards seem to be unique to the point of being irrelevant, especially in matters such as this." No more irrelevant than any other human who has walked this earth. Pick any god, pick any religion, or don't: What counts is the good you left behind. I'm glad your ego is not dependent on faith. ` Why? Probably because we have nothing to compare it to.
#7 Meta on 2008-10-05 11:11 And comparing nothing with nothing is at the heart of it... and nothing is the result. KRW They still allow me here... and I've been much less artfully phrased than you in my 'doubts'. Carry on. 'a parted ev'n just
between twelve and one, ev'n at the turning o' th' tide; for after I saw him fumble with the sheets, and play with flowers, and smile upon his fingers' end, I knew there was but one way; for his nose was as sharp as a pen, and 'a babbl'd of green fields. ev'n at the turning o' th' tide Love that whole quote, quess it shows, as I've posted it twice. I heard a man argue one time that a dead body proved there wasn't life after death, see, there's a dead body, the guy's dead, not realizing the argument was about life after death, and what a body is, and what a spirit is.
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