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Thursday, August 7. 2008More Thursday LinksOur Dylanologist is back from his European travels. He asked a passer-by in a Paris park to take this photo of him, on right. America's fastest dying cities. Creative destruction? The Repub protest continues in the House. The cost of PC academic majors. Mankiw The hedgies are hurting. But it's a great time of opportunity for them too: cheap credits and loans that will pay off in a while. What's a "book town"? Rove: What McCain should do now. Good advice. I want my culturally-appropriate health care too. Is Obama's tire gauge like Jimmy Carter's sweater? Related: First presidential campaign plane in history to have all American flags removed. Related: pundits begin to worry about Obama. One quote:
Nice wrapping paper, but is there anything in the box? Also related, via Belmont, Alinsky's Ten Rules for Radicals and how Obama is breaking the rules:
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Fastest Dying Cities - I was shocked to see that all of America's fastest growing cities were in high-tax, forced-unionism states. Who would have thought these things would chase out capital, businesses, and anyone interested in success?
NJS, did you mis-speak, 'fastest growing'?
Re Alinsky, it's not his 'ten rules', it's his '13 rules' that we need to know. Esp his '13th Rule'. Deliberate oil addiction, fake wars, and grotesque US militarism as wealth redistribution vehicles - The never ending saga of thievery cronyism and corruption.
Anyway, Completely replacing all gasoline engine cars with all electric vehicles will require 6% of additional electric power capacity. Doing so in 10 years will require an additional 0.6% of electric power per year. Adding this additional electric power capacity using green renewable sources like solar and wind adds 1 cent of additional cost per mile driven as compared to using traditional sources for electricity like natural gas and coal. See Israel's Project Better Place. yeah..."fake wars" plural? Personally, I don't buy one in the singular but I'm sure I do know one of which you speak. Others? Are you a Truther? Haven't seen one show up in some time...
"grotesque US militarism as wealth redistribution vehicles"...please do explain. Going out on a limb here but I suspect you aren't opposed to wealth redistribution in the first place, but I could be wrong. In what respect do you speak? "Completely replacing all gasoline engine cars with all electric vehicles will require 6% of additional electric power capacity." Interesting...have you some more detailed math that would back up this claim? []yeah..."fake wars" plural? Personally, I don't buy one in the singular but I'm sure I do know one of which you speak. Others? Are you a Truther? Haven't seen one show up in some time…[]
No, I’m not a Truther. Not yet, anyway. Although I have to admit I’m starting to warm up to the idea. I also know real wars, so I know when I see fake wars. []"grotesque US militarism as wealth redistribution vehicles"...please do explain. Going out on a limb here but I suspect you aren't opposed to wealth redistribution in the first place, but I could be wrong. In what respect do you speak?[] Here’s what I speak of: Current yearly US Military expenditure $965 billion: • Military Personnel $129 billion • Operation & Maint. $241 billion • Procurement $143 billion • Research & Dev. $79 billion • Construction $15 billion • Family Housing $3 billion • DoD misc. $4 billion • Retired Pay $70 billion • DoE nuclear weapons $17 billion • NASA (50%) $9 billion • International Security $9 billion • Homeland Secur. (military) $35 billion • State Dept. (partial) $6 billion • other military (non-DoD) $5 billion • "Global War on Terror" $200 billion [$162 billion added to the last item to supplement the Budget's grossly underestimated $38 billion in "allowances" to be spent in 2009 for the "War on Terror," which includes the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan] Past Military expenditure $484 billion: • Veterans' Benefits $94 billion • Interest on national debt (80%) created by military spending, $390 billion $484 billion + $965 billion = $1,449 billion Current yearly US gov tax income $2,566 billion: $1,163 billion - Individual income tax $869.6 billion - Social Security other payroll taxes $370.2 billion - Corporate income tax $65.1 billion - Excise taxes $26.0 billion - Customs duties $26.0 billion - Estate and gift taxes $47.2 billion - Other $2566 billion - $869 billion = $1,697 billion $1,449 billion / $1,697 billion x 100% = 85% !! Excluding Social Security income from the equation, the percentage spent on the military related expenditures becomes 85%!! You want to talk about Commie government redistribution, this is as cynical and predatory as it gets. Grotesque. Grotesque in that the total military budget of Russia China Britain France Japan and Germany combined does not amount $400 billion. Grotesque in that this insane military spending is used to subsidize oil addiction, and the fat cat welfare system of Pentagon/CIA contractors and oil profiteers. []"Completely replacing all gasoline engine cars with all electric vehicles will require 6% of additional electric power capacity." Interesting...have you some more detailed math that would back up this claim?[] Here you go: 1/ http://www.sciam.com/article.cfm?id=spare-power-sufficient-to 2/ http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NfGEbTcNuzA See min 16 into that vid clip (That claim is backed up by analysis from Deutsche Bank) OK, so you didn't answer my first question about fake wars, and I'm supposed to take it on faith that you know real wars. No substance there.
Your numerous numbers on military spending are highly suspect. Either way, as I recall US spending as % of GDP is about 25-30 world ranking. What's your source? Sure you're not counting some of those numbers twice (e.g. NASA 50%)? As for your references on replacing gasoline engine cars, you've confused "power capacity" with "electric power" ("output" implied). You obviously have no idea what you are talking about and just repeating what you've heard from other unreliable sources. A YouTube video? You can not be serious (apologies to Johnny Mac). []OK, so you didn't answer my first question about fake wars, and I'm supposed to take it on faith that you know real wars. No substance there.[]
I guess I need to spell it out for you. The Cold War was over 20 years ago. Islam is the Religion of Peace. []Your numerous numbers on military spending are highly suspect. Either way, as I recall US spending as % of GDP is about 25-30 world ranking. What's your source? Sure you're not counting some of those numbers twice (e.g. NASA 50%)?[] Well, why don’t you do it this way. Why not figure what percentage of Federal income money is spent on things other than the military. Maybe you could also deduce why the Feds incurred a 9.5 trillion dollar debt. []As for your references on replacing gasoline engine cars, you've confused "power capacity" with "electric power" ("output" implied). You obviously have no idea what you are talking about and just repeating what you've heard from other unreliable sources. A YouTube video? You can not be serious (apologies to Johnny Mac).[] I’m not going to spoon feed you. Israel is building one medium size solar plant to keep with peak demand if needed and that’s it. And I already told you that this analysis is backed up by Deutsche Bank analysts. The link to SciAm pretty much confirms the same.
#3.1.1.1.1
mika.
on
2008-08-07 22:19
(Reply)
"Excluding Social Security from the equation..." And Medicare, Unemployment & Welfare, Medicaid, & Debt Service.
Ah yes. That would change the numbers a bit, wouldn't it? I covered that months ago. The real budget numbers are here: http://assistantvillageidiot.blogspot.com/2007/11/why-would-they-lie-huh.html Actually, I do congratulate you for bringing in a numbers argument, though, instead of fluff and anecdote. Stick around. Your blog shows a chart with $466 billion dedicated to military related expenses (supposedly amounting to 17% of the budget). This is clearly false. The real expense is $1,449 billion, as I've already indicated.
#3.1.1.2.1
mika.
on
2008-08-09 00:41
(Reply)
That's a pretty dark 1st para, Mika. Yes, DC sux & needs massive cleanup -- but imagine the last 100 years with no USA military. The globe would by now be under somebody's secret-police boot, and with modern technology, there'd be no escape until hell freezes over.
Deliberate oil addiction -- yes, failure of leadership. But Buddy - remember that we are all under Bush's fascist secret police boot right now!
BD, who are you shitin. That's not the peanut butter and jelly King. Thats you without you're shack, and 3 babes. At least you have man's best friend with you. How you got an Italian babe to fall for you is beyond me!!!
RULE 5: "Ridicule is man"s most important weapon" RULE 8: "Keep the preasure on. Never let up" : ) Looks to me like Britain has already began to circle down the drain. How long before the rest of NATO follows?
Spies In The Sky July 2008 By EURSOC http://www.eursoc.com/news/fullstory.php/aid/2626/Spies_In_The_Sky.html Yes, Buddy, it is a very dark statement. But it is not an indictment specific to DC. It is an indictment specific to all Imperialists -- Red White Blue and combination of all three.
Sometimes I wish we werwe imperialists. Like, 1945-50, when our monopoly on the nuke could've put the world at peace and harmony for all time. Just a "if you build weapons, we will drop one of these things on you" would've turned the world into a peaceful productive place with out the waste of weapons, which plow no fields and butter no parsnips.
Competition is good. Even for fat ass imperialists. :D
#4.2.1.1.1
mika.
on
2008-08-07 21:47
(Reply)
Where did this mulatto, whanna be president, get the money to have his own private plane? A. he is only a senator and B. he hasn't even recieved his party's nomination yet. So who put up the money?
Jappy,
My guess is Soros et al. And, of course, a bunch od Wall Street guys who would sell their soul to the devil to have a chit in the game of "take their money but not mine". That, by the way, is how we (all of the honest hard working folks) will get screwed if Obama is elected. God forbid. mika, take a powder. Buddy, please run for President. The country could use a sense of humor and some common sense. I hope you and your family are well. []mika, take a powder.[]
:) http://www.reuters.com/articlePrint?articleId=USL1118483220080511 Renault seen investing up to $1 bln in electric car Sun May 11, 2008 9:03am EDT By Tova Cohen TEL AVIV (Reuters) - The head of an Israeli-backed electric car project estimated on Sunday that its partner, the Renault-Nissan alliance, would likely invest $500 million to $1 billion in the swappable-battery electric cars. "This is the cost for a three-year car program," Shai Agassi, the founder and chief executive of California-based Project Better Place, said on the sidelines of a news conference to introduce the electric car prototype. Renault and Nissan signed a deal with Better Place in January to begin mass producing electric cars as a part of a project to develop alternative energy sources and slash oil dependency. Better Place will build the first electric grids in Israel and Denmark, with initial deployment slated for 2010. Denmark's DONG Energy recently signed a letter of intent with Better Place to introduce the electric cars to the Scandinavian country, where the batteries will be charged using wind power. DONG Energy is the world's largest offshore wind power operator, with several wind farms in Denmark and Britain. Agassi said that up to 20 percent of Denmark's electricity production comes from wind but that 7 percent was not being used -- enough to power every car in Scandinavia. A few dozen cars will be available in Israel later in 2008, mainly for demonstration. In Israel, much of the electricity is generated using fossil fuels such as coal, though natural gas is now being introduced. But Agassi said the plan was to use solar energy generated in Israel's Negev Desert to power the batteries. "If all of Israel traveled by electric cars, you would need to add 6 percent of electricity production," Agassi said. Renault will provide Better Place with vehicles while Nissan, through its joint venture with NEC, has created a lithium-ion battery pack. The project will also use batteries made by A123 Systems. The batteries, weighing about 200 kg, will have a range of 160 to 200 km before needing to be recharged or swapped. Agassi said the project was open to anyone who wants to join. The initial $200 million investment in Better Place is led by holding company Israel Corp, and includes Morgan Stanley, venture capital firm Vantage Point and a group of private investors. 500,000 CHARGING SPOTS Better Place in Israel will deploy more than 500,000 charging spots, including at the homes and offices of its clients, and hundreds of battery exchange stations. Moshe Kaplinsky, CEO of Better Place Israel, said a study conducted by Israeli consultancy and research institute Geocartography Knowledge Group, showed that two thirds of the public have a positive opinion of electric cars. "We are not operating in a climate of indifference. The Israeli public is interested in what we are doing," Kaplinsky said. "We need to stop our dependence on oil." In Israel, where most of its oil comes from Russia, 1.2 million households own cars and 210,000 would consider purchasing an electric car, the study showed. Agassi said Better Place was in discussions in other countries to introduce similar projects. European countries are interested in Better Place for environmental reasons while Asia is seeking to reduce pollution, and Africa sees huge potential to generate solar energy in the Sahara Desert, Agassi said. North America is seeking to reduce its oil dependence. "What happens when oil producers say: 'We don't take dollars anymore,'" Agassi said. Enough of the tin hat statistics. I think mika got his or her stats from the War Resisters League website with whom I will not provide a link. Very reliable group. The US gov pie chart on spending is a little different than this groups stats.
Medicaid, Medicare etc.-33% Non Militarty discretionary-18% Interest on National Debt-8% Social Security-21% Defense-20% I think Defense was highest during the cold war in the 50's when it reached a high of 55% of the total budget. This doesn't bother me because thats what the federal government should be spending our money on- protecting us. The majority of spending seems to be on social programs and redistribution of income schemes. []Enough of the tin hat statistics. I think mika got his or her stats from the War Resisters League website with whom I will not provide a link. Very reliable group. The US gov pie chart on spending is a little different than this groups stats.[]
Right. Tin hat statistics. Well, let's see how the numbers compare. You write: Social Security-21% Defense-20% I write: $869.6 billion - Social Security other payroll taxes $965 billion - Current yearly US Military expenditure Very similar so far. But then, I also also add: $484 billion - Past Military expenditure • Veterans' Benefits $94 billion • Interest on national debt (80%) created by military spending, $390 billion That's how we arrive at a total of $1,449 billion. But even at $965 billion (as compared to $1,449 billion), that is almost 3x as much as the total military budget of Russia China Britain France Japan and Germany combined. If you don't see anything wrong with that, then there's something seriously wrong with you, Sean. Mika is a good guy -- a Lithuanian Israeli DDS -- with whom i've sided on many a Belmont argument in days of yore. Tonight the boy sounds different -- always in the past funny, wry & skeptical but never a user of such words as ''imperialist'' on USA. I'm not sure this is the same Mika.
Anyhoo, Iraq just annpounced today it is resuming oil exploration, after a 20 year halt. The Dinar and nearly every economic/ financial sector is at new highs -- the people are free and USA has taken some major lumps in the making it so. We've done the same thing over and over since 1917 -- enemy of slave masters, friend of little guy who wants to run his own life. "Imperialist" is an easy charge to make but if we are imperialists, then what word do we use for murdering subjugators like the tyrants we have been fighting for the last hundred years? "Bad" imperialists? []I'm not sure this is the same Mika.[]
It's the same mika. Just a little more informed. []"Imperialist" is an easy charge to make but if we are imperialists, then what word do we use for murdering subjugators like the tyrants we have been fighting for the last hundred years? "Bad" imperialists?[] Think of the English vs the French. Maybe that will help. Buddy,
The US is on the verge of bankruptcy. Maybe I do sound shrill, but because I'm seriously concerned. I'd hate for your country to go down the drain. It's circling awfully close. This mika. doesn't know what he's talking about, hence the "I'm not going to spoon feed you" nonsense when he's confused himself. If he's truely Lithuanian, then he should be mighty damn grateful that this "Imperialist" nation stood up to the sons of bitches that ran his country. Perhaps he spent too much time in re-education classes? I thinks this ain't your old buddy, Buddy.
[]Sounds like Mika's been infected by a loony conspiratorial bug...shame.[]
Conspiratorial, yes. Loony, I think not. I have neither American Left nor American Right political affiliation. I can see and discern very clearly. I can also see that this theft from the American middle class is a bipartisan affair and that the US political system is gamed by money interests. Say it ain't so, boo.
I thought mika.'s a girl and I still need a new duster. OH well. Sounds like Mika's been infected by a loony conspiratorial bug...shame. KRW you are correct, no use wasting time and energy arguing against those afflicted. I've seen others turn this way. They've somehow come to 'see the light, the truth' and in turn has lost all capacity for simple common sense and proportion. Good luck Mika. Sorry Lithuania has decided to exterminate itself by not reproducing and having one of the highest suicide rates in the world. They were a victim of the soul destroying totalitarian Russian imperial thugs...that bunch was truly imperialistic and evil. If the U.S. is so bad, I can't imagine who else little dependent Lithuania and other similar countries would turn to for support and protection. Sounds like you need a good psychiatrist for your affliction....seriously. Best wishes.
Well, Phil, when you're reduced to servicing tricks on US imperialists you might consider the same. Or maybe not. You sound like you might enjoy that.
By your sloppy logic, maybe phil, myself, et al ARE the imperialists...really, don't we all have "money interests". Where do I receive my trick?
[]By your sloppy logic, maybe phil, myself, et al ARE the imperialists.[]
Well, are you? Btw, Ever consider why the Mexican border is not secured given the trillions spent on military related expenditures? []I hope you get the help you obviously need.[]
Why? 'Cause I'm not a partisan cheerleader for deliberate oil addiction, fake wars, and grotesque US militarism as wealth redistribution vehicles from the middle class? ''They were a victim of the soul destroying totalitarian Russian imperial thugs...that bunch was truly imperialistic and evil. If the U.S. is so bad, I can't imagine who else little dependent Lithuania and other similar countries would turn to for support and protection.''
In this little thread contretemps, that right there is the lede, the main story. The Marxist critique of course has a logic. The ''exploitation'' theme is undeniable. The thing is, tho, ''exploitation'' is a fundamental human relationship. Even the newborn baby is in an exploitive relationship with mom & dad. We have a young black guy from humble roots running for president. Yes, to do so he's had to use 'moneyed interests' --and they are using him --but still, the voters have the final say, and as usual whenever our ills loom large (as in now, when the nation has swung the pendulum a few percent too far on the debt side of the --thanks to USA now global --wealth-creation system called 'capitalism'), we wake the hell up long enough to rebuild the conditions that will let us doze off again. Like the fella said, ''so sue us''. The American system is still, after a quarter-millenium, among political entities of consequence the most enduring radical egalitarianism, or the most radically egalitarian political-system test, the world has ever known, or will probably ever know, short of some sort of global religious revival wherein every person becomes the spiritual ideal of utterly selflessness. lastly, and FWIW, Mika is a polyglot operating here in his newest aquisition, English, and may be slapping us harder than he means to. and if he can't see USSR the way we do, it's because USSR saved his family from the Nazis. Sorry Mika if I'm getting too personal. But, your voice needs context here, with the things you are saying. Ok, I'm done. []Sorry Mika if I'm getting too personal. But, your voice needs context here, with the things you are saying.[]
When did pro oil addiction, pro uncontrolled spending on military contractors, pro thievery, pro cronyism, pro corruption, become such hot button conservative issues? well, there's lots of other things you've left out, for starters. What about, organized crime, madison Avenue penetration of American psyche, First Amendment enabling internet kiddie porn, K-12 school system operating at disgracefully low efficiency, one of two major political parties using the federal government as a jobs program, a 17th Amendment where a Pat leahy, representing 600K people, gets to cripple the entire federal judiciary in 50 states for 300 million citizens -- oh, etcetera and so forth, the list is long.
But that's just a part of the story. And you critique herein is part of the story. The whole story is the one where histrory regards the effect on the globe of a nation, or people, or culture, through time. And in that ''whole" story, USA shines brightly, very brightly. Yes, we depose tyrants, over and over and over again, at great cost in blood and treasure, in order to spread the ideals in our own constitution --and maybe that is hubris and arrogance --but the Hitlers and Tojos and KGBs at least have an opponent, right? And by and large, can there be a greater boon to mankind than to have a sword and shield against murderous evil? THAT is the ''whole'' story. The rest, the problems we have, are at least still on the table where we can get at them, at least are still bugs in our system --as opposed to being not bugs but features, permanent, institutionalized, secret, protected by a ruthless and unconstrained secret police, inside some equivalent to a Kremlin. And, the thing is, these two extremes arwe where human nature will take us --and the choice is by and large, one or the other: Sloppy disreputable selfish freemen mis-running their own affairs in the promised land, or slave masses controlled by a distant untouchable nomenklatura, not in the promised land, but in hell-posing-as-heaven. Wow...Buddy. You have an amazing wit and talent of expressing complex concepts pithily with humor. I'm still waiting on your book.
well, if that don't make my day, nothin' will!
:-)
#11.1.1.1.1
buddy larsen
on
2008-08-08 11:32
(Reply)
Youz needs to stop living in da past!
Consider: 'Various constructs such as wormholes seem to allow for time travel. The ability exists to travel into the past and the future via these constructs linking vast stretches of space. We're flowing from the past into the future at this very moment. But can one travel into a future that doesn't yet exist? What does it suggest about past, present, and future? Everything that will happen in the universe already has -- You just don't know it yet.' But I do. :)
#11.1.1.1.1.1
mika.
on
2008-08-08 11:42
(Reply)
but what you don't understand is, i made you say that.
#11.1.1.1.1.1.1
buddy larsen
on
2008-08-08 11:47
(Reply)
Yes, but only because you knew that I knew that you knew that I needed a smile. :)
#11.1.1.1.1.1.1.1
mika.
on
2008-08-08 12:00
(Reply)
Buddy, you know me well enough to know that I love America and Americans. What I say, I say out of genuine concern. If the US does not change its course and very swiftly, the US economy will collapse.
yeh -- i do know that -- i've been reading your stuff long enough to know that. and there is some scary shit going on in the economy and among the political class. but we do gots to fight the fight in the winning way -- that is when dat ole cynicism starts to turn yo smile upsides down, you mus direct yo feet to the sunny side o de street. And, keep well-armed, in every way.
:-)
#11.1.1.2.1
buddy larsen
on
2008-08-08 12:09
(Reply)
I can also imagine that coming from a vulnerable and abused minority in a vulnerable and abused country can cause one to conflate legimate issues that need addressing with large conspiracies with dark intent conducted by a small powerful cabal with only dark self interest because that is all one knows through real experience.
well said --survival mechanisms --difficult to maintain a healthy hypervigilance when the same attitude is paranoia, unless--until--the goblins do come.
And now USSR has invaded Georgia. Bad as that is, maybe now Jimmy Carter will have to go home & defend his peanut patch.
You know, as a Gator, I have a hard time seeing that as a bad thing...Hope the Ruskies don't do anything the Yankees didn't do.
Boo, USSR, a nightmare from your past incarnations, disbanded a few days ago.
Still scares ya, does it? Let me see if i can phrase this right: "disbanded, my ass". How wuzzat?
Yo ass isn't the subject but nice try.
That ya is scared is rightly noted, boo. Fear always distorts the facts in the mind of the timid. and dumbass always distorts the facts in the minds of the doofless
#12.2.1.1.1
buddy larsen
on
2008-08-08 12:15
(Reply)
So boo, leavin your ass out, do ya really think missy mika. is a guy?
#12.2.1.1.1.1
Leag
on
2008-08-08 12:38
(Reply)
Why, does me whining about the oil mafia corruption cronyism US imperialism and war profiteering give me away as a missy, Lea?
#12.2.1.1.1.1.1
mika.
on
2008-08-08 12:52
(Reply)
Hint: it's the whiny, helpless part.
#12.2.1.1.1.1.1.1
KRW
on
2008-08-08 13:17
(Reply)
Hint: Me weenie is hopeless, but not helpless.
#12.2.1.1.1.1.1.1.1
mika.
on
2008-08-08 13:24
(Reply)
It's the tone not the gripe that causes me to think so.
#12.2.1.1.1.1.1.2
Leag
on
2008-08-08 13:25
(Reply)
The tone is alarmist. As it should be.
#12.2.1.1.1.1.1.2.1
mika.
on
2008-08-08 13:36
(Reply)
Just like a girl, me thinks.
#12.2.1.1.1.1.1.2.1.1
Leag
on
2008-08-08 13:41
(Reply)
Maybe. And maybe not.
#12.2.1.1.1.1.1.2.1.1.1
mika.
on
2008-08-08 13:50
(Reply)
But one thing for sure, these guys fight worse than our girls:
http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=39a_1217286501
#12.2.1.1.1.1.1.2.1.1.1.1
mika.
on
2008-08-08 13:55
(Reply)
Btw, Lea, should this be a cause for alarm, or should we all go back to grazing on GOP propaganda?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SW6PLZ-NAr0
#12.2.1.1.1.1.1.2.1.1.2
mika.
on
2008-08-08 14:20
(Reply)
Who's 'we'? Are you a U.S. citizen? If not then there is no 'we' when discussing our politics. There's you and your histerical opinions and us. That 'we' must be a rat in your pocket.
#12.2.1.1.1.1.1.2.1.1.2.1
phil g
on
2008-08-08 14:53
(Reply)
No, I'm not an American. Although I do consider myself very much a conservative. But the fact that you're trying to downplay and whitewash the situation as hysterics tells me you're not much of a conservative, but rather a GOP tool, a stooge. So you're right, between you and I there is no "we".
#12.2.1.1.1.1.1.2.1.1.2.1.1
mika.
on
2008-08-08 15:16
(Reply)
Oooh, OK, then I'm a stooge too! That makes phil and me...Leag, you in? You can be Shemp! I think Buddy's more of a Zeppo...
Seriously, I am sorry for the losses of your family (if the story line is correct) first to the right extreme, then to the left (which were both opposite sides of the same coin). As for the US/West, any successful idea or concept will acquire wealth. Due to the nature of man, wealth must be defended against those who aim to take it by force. On another point, the supposed "Imperialists" of which you fear are not going to kill the goose that lays their golden egg. There is no safer place for their wealth (in spite of our current, historically minor, problems) than the US/West. Granted, wealth breeds decadence, but it always has and always will. Some decadence actually inspires productivity and the generation of more wealth. Wealth is not static. Nor will anyone "refuse to accept dollars" so long as we produce stuff that the world wants to buy. The price of oil can hit $1000/bbl, but as long as we in the US continue to provide the technological and business (legitimate business) savvy, we will be just fine. Check out the $ vs. Euro today. And take a few deep breaths.
#12.2.1.1.1.1.1.2.1.1.2.1.1.1
KRW
on
2008-08-08 15:34
(Reply)
Imperialists fight over material resources. Why are US military related expenditures 10x that of Russia?
#12.2.1.1.1.1.1.2.1.1.2.1.1.1.1
mika.
on
2008-08-08 16:08
(Reply)
Because our GDP is much larger and our international obligations are much greater. Plus we like it that our military could kick their butt anywhere in the world (outside of Russia), which is the point that keeps us from needing to do so in the first place. Peace through strength first, then diplomacy. It's the TR way. BTW, no mention that the US has the highest standard of living of any of these other countries (and don't bring up little pipsqueeks like Qatar and Switzerland that would evaporate like dew in the desert the minute we ceased to be a world military power). Yet many other countries need to spend less on their military because we spend so much on ours.
#12.2.1.1.1.1.1.2.1.1.2.1.1.1.1.1
KRW
on
2008-08-08 16:22
(Reply)
GDP = consumption + gross investment + government spending + (exports ? imports)
Your GDP is highly inflated by consumption based on borrowed money, grotesque government spending on the military, and large foreign buyout of US businesses. All of this is unsustainable. Furthermore, Your GDP is $13.84 trillion (2007 est.) Your Debt is $9.6 trillion (2008 est.) Your GDP is growing on average at a pace of 2% yearly. Your Debt is growing at a pace of 14% yearly. ($0.7 trillion/ year). You do the math as to how long before you go bankrupt.
#12.2.1.1.1.1.1.2.1.1.2.1.1.1.1.1.1
mika.
on
2008-08-08 16:55
(Reply)
Look, I've answered several of your questions yet you fail to answer mine. I'm sorry for whatever circumstance has led you down an information path that is beholden to left-wing lunacy. It's always been my belief that politically if you move too far to the left (or right) you'll run smack into the opposite side. As the prospectuses (prospecti?) say, past performance is no indication of future results. Note that this expression has neither a positive nor negative connotation. That's all from me, say "goodnight" Gracie...
#12.2.1.1.1.1.1.2.1.1.2.1.1.1.1.1.1.1
KRW
on
2008-08-08 18:47
(Reply)
The only question I've seen you pose is 'Where do I receive my trick?' And I've already answered that.
#12.2.1.1.1.1.1.2.1.1.2.1.1.1.1.1.1.1.1
mika.
on
2008-08-08 19:31
(Reply)
Because we can? And thank goodness for that!
Why don't you define what type of 'conservative' you think you are as there are many flavors with many loud and obnoxious ones claiming to be the only true conservatives. I consider myself to be a traditional conservative with lean towards small 'l' libertarian, believe in a strong and active as required defense and foriegn policy, law and order, with low taxes and constrained spending on things mostly wasteful such as pork and redistribution schemes (social security, medicare, etc.) Military spending is a small franction of our GDP is not what's sinking our budget. It's the defined benefits of SS and Medicare/Medicade that is taking a larger and larger bite out of our budget and will have to be dealt with at some point. Oil is a critical energy component required to fuel our economy and growth which we desperately need to do (grow) to have any hope of funding future SS and Medicare/Medicade obligations. The fact that some people make a ton of $$ on oil is not something that concerns me too much. The fact that much of the benefactors of oil $$ are nasty Islamic radicals that uses the money to fund death and destruction is troubling. The fact that we (that be us U.S. citizens) don't expand energy/oil supply from our available resources is stupid and I hope the anti-energy Dems will pay a huge price for that. I don't consider myself a GOP tool but have to look to the GOP, unfortunately sometimes, as the best available alternative to the idiot and anti-American elements in the Dem party. Life is never easy. Peace!
#12.2.1.1.1.1.1.2.1.1.2.1.1.1.1.2
phil g
on
2008-08-08 16:27
(Reply)
I second that post -- all of it, and with a footnote: what would be the cost of USA NOT spending that 4 or 5% GDP on defense? For starters, a good deal of fundamentally productive world trade, as it is the US Navy that keeps the sea lanes open for the entire global trading system --the trade which puts food in the bellies of children who would otherwise be hungry. If we were imperialists, we would be charging a toll for use of the seas --and use it to defray the cost of the navy.
Any 'imperialist' would, i know because i read history. But we do this and much more, internationally, for free, and without expectation of even the smallest gratitude. The gratitude would come if we were to QUIT doing it, and the world fell back to piracy and perpetual war. THEN we would get some appreciation. as world police we get dissed --until there's trouble --then it's "WHERE'S THE USA?"
#12.2.1.1.1.1.1.2.1.1.2.1.1.1.1.2.1
buddy larsen
on
2008-08-08 19:09
(Reply)
[]If we were imperialists, we would be charging a toll for use of the seas --and use it to defray the cost of the navy.[]
Actually, you do. The racket is very simple. Dollars for Oil. You made oil king, killing the competition, and thus you force other nations to buy your debt. It's a little more subtle than the usual gangsterism, but it amounts to the same thing. A protection racket all the same.
#12.2.1.1.1.1.1.2.1.1.2.1.1.1.1.2.1.1
mika.
on
2008-08-08 19:47
(Reply)
Me?
Just lookin' fer a duster. She can watch u tubes, as long as she keeps things tidied up and she has a green card. Don't ya think mika.'s a girl?
#12.2.1.1.1.1.1.2.1.1.2.1.1.1.2
Leag
on
2008-08-08 16:19
(Reply)
http://debka.com/article.php?aid=1358
take a look, youz guys not to interrupt--but--if interested in the Caucasus mess, excellent link-filled thread has sprung up at
http://pajamasmedia.com/richardfernandez/2008/08/08/trouble-in-the-caucasus/#comments Thanks, but no thanks. The Middle East is hard enough to deal with. The Caucasus is like the Balkans pre-WWI but worse given the terrain, ethnicities, and religions involved. Though it is a good mess to throw into Europe's (and Obama's) lap. Let's make Obama president of Europe and let those know-it-alls figure that one out and leave us alone to finish Iraq/Afgh. in "peace".
The Caucasus just gives me a giant headache. We Americans have such a hard time getting our minds wrapped around these long standing ethnic based conflicts. We're way too nice to apply the kind of ruthlessness much of these conflicts require. Russia is much better equipped for the nastiness required. We're the crazy exception to the universal ethnic based conflict and hatred. The irony is that we beat ourselves up for being 'racist'. We're probably the least racist nation on earth perhaps along with Australia and New Zealand. Sorry can't include Canada as they have their own racial tension between the English and the Frenchies.
that's so true -- it's a crashing irony we get branded racist -- it's almost like, 'racist' means the opposite of itself in the reality of this country. the only people i see thinking about race all the time are the people who keep calling us 'racist'.
but -- look at that Debkafile --suddenly it's clear this fight is the northern front in the mideast/Afghan war.
it's the pipeline --take a look. --Israel has an expeditionary force helping Georgia --serves Russia right --they're behind the guys behind the Hez on Israel's N border. Man that just makes my head spin. I'll stick with marketing...international chess is just too stressful.
Mika, you're talking about the so-called "petrodollar trade" --and your characterization is the familiar anti-American assertion-from-attitude.
IOW, factually you are just plain wrong --that trade is a recycling that has been mutually rewarding for all parties, else they'd not be still doing it after all these decades. Of course the Sauds like our naval protection, and of course we like their coming to our treasury bond auctions. They have oil, and it makes them targets; we have guns, and they help us finance them. Note i say 'finance' -- not 'buy'. Our debt instruments pay interest. Yes value-loss of principle (declining dollar --which BTW has turned up powerfully in the last week, up 5% ag/ Euro --historically unprecedented 2nd derivative) in the last year is a problem, but the preceding 15 years have had little dollar inflation, so our treasuries have been profitable as well as --crucially --risk-free, value protected in the end by the US military. A "protection racket" has to have one side of the transaction coerced, because the benefit is extracted from a "victim" by a "perp". The petrodollar trade is voluntary --all sides benefit, all sides enter and leave voluntarily. Sure, you can penetrate that statement, and declare it a lie because each side 'needs' the other, and there's always an implicit threat hanging in the air --they quit selling us oil, we let Iran or Russia have them, this or that --and so the deal is not really voluntary. To that i say, then nothing is voluntary, then everyone deals in extortion & bribery & protection rackets with everyone else, via need and want and implied threat (even if merely witholding conversation in order to pressure a change in dinner plans), so if i'm right that that is what you were going to say, let me skip ahead and pre-brand it sophistry. Words have meanings, terms have definitions, and events have factual narratives. Of course it is true that anybody can just say anything they want, anytime. But it is also true that words have meanings, terms have definitions, and events have factual narratives. ok, that's all i got for now -- gotta go do my two miles--8 PM here and getting dark. Hope you enjoyed your lessons here today --you've had some good teachers --excluding myself of course. Better teachers than the depth of your argument here today has probably deserved, IMHO. oops --above meant to attach to your
"The racket is very simple. Dollars for Oil. You made oil king, killing the competition, and thus you force other nations to buy your debt. It's a little more subtle than the usual gangsterism, but it amounts to the same thing. A protection racket all the same. #12.2.1.1.1.1.1.2.1.1.2.1.1.1.1.2.1.1 mika. on 2008-08-08 19:47 (Reply) []IOW, factually you are just plain wrong --that trade is a recycling that has been mutually rewarding for all parties, else they'd not be still doing it after all these decades.[]
It's been mutually rewarding for the US and the Saudis. Everybody else has to pay thru the nose. []Words have meanings, terms have definitions, and events have factual narratives.[] Yes, words should have meaning and events should have a factual narrative. And when you control a monopoly, that monopoly by its very definition implies a lack of choice. But maybe this will help you to see: If you asked somebody 200 years ago, what is black, comes over from exotic lands in the cargo of a ships and does most of your work for you at cutthroat cost, what answer do think they would come up with? They would come up with the word slave. To my eyes, the analogy between the imperial oil trade and the imperial salve trade is very striking. The parallelism in the methodology and strategy between the two, in fact, is quite disturbing. Same as it concerns "free trade". Soooooo what's your alternative Mika? Wind, solar, proper tire pressure, bicycles, cold fusion?
Fine for you to rage on this normally genteel site like a lunatic, oh I'm sorry, conservative, but you haven't provided any reasonable alternative given the real life circumstances. Comparing black sticky liquid with humans is the stupidest thing I've seen on any thread all day...congrats you win the stupid poster award for the day. I'm sure that smarts as I can sense that you have a huge invested pride in your intellectual talent. Might I remind you of the term hubris. Good night []Comparing black sticky liquid with humans is the stupidest thing I've seen on any thread all day[]
I was comparing the methodology not the object themselves. The economic machination is the same. ..methodology not the objects..
#15.2.1.1.1
mika.
on
2008-08-08 21:43
(Reply)
ah yes, i see what you mean --both use ships to cross the sea. Hmm, yes, very meaningful.
#15.2.1.1.1.1
buddy larsen
on
2008-08-08 23:24
(Reply)
No, both use a monopoly in (practically) free energy commodity to undercut the competition. The US only pays interest on the petro dolar paper it prints. Others have to pay the full value of that paper in goods and services. And when it's over the paper and IOUs will be worthless while the goods and services received will already have been received.
#15.2.1.1.1.1.1
mika.
on
2008-08-08 23:43
(Reply)
Mika, you know better than that. Bond traders move seven or eight times as much money as NYSE.
How many 10 or 30s do you imagine mature in the name of the auction-buyer? My guess, a few percent at most. That of course is one of the major reasons foreigners come into USA mkts --top liquidity is as good as guaranteed, on the tightest possible bid/ask spreads. Nobody but nobody ever gets stuck with unmarketable US paper. USA pays off every bond it issues, on maturity. Why do you claim USA pays only interest while everyone else pays both interest and principle? --why that's just crazy talk, man. And mildly slanderous to boot. Nobody anywhere does it any differently --the bond has a yield which gets paid out on a schedule until the bond matures, at which time principle is repaid. The ENTIRE world holds US paper --G-8 central banks all have large holdings. Why? Because the USA is a good investment --not because they're afraid the US Navy is gonna lob some shells into the lobby if the bank don't bid. That's just nutz --ask a central banker somewhere, jeeeeeezzz. ''when it's all over'' --whatever that means --if you mean Armageddon, then yes there'll probably be bonds everywhere that never get paid off, due to the end of the world occuring before the date of the bond's maturity.
#15.2.1.1.1.1.1.1
buddy larsen
on
2008-08-09 01:07
(Reply)
“Why do you claim USA pays only interest while everyone else pays both interest and principle?”
Because that’s the cost of printing money. It’s a ponzi scheme with more paper printed to “pay” IOUs on old paper. The whole edifice is reliant on the influx of petro dollars. When oil production stalls the system becomes stressed. When oil production falls the system will collapse.
#15.2.1.1.1.1.1.1.1
mika.
on
2008-08-09 01:19
(Reply)
Interst paid on national debt, 8% of the budget. Foreign ownership of national debt, what 25%? So, that would be a quarter of eight, or 2%. Of that 2%, amount petrodollar-generated, around half, or 1%.
One percent. This is gonna collapse the most productive, dynamic, innovative economy on the earth?
#15.2.1.1.1.1.1.1.1.1
buddy larsen
on
2008-08-09 01:29
(Reply)
[]Soooooo what's your alternative Mika? Wind, solar[]
End the oil monopoly. Call back the Imperial Navy/Army. Stop the subsidization of oil with other peoples money. Stop Federal obstructionism towards renewable energy projects. The market will take care of the rest. That's just an amazing post Buddy. If you could see me you'd see me bowing down to your awesomeness.
heh thanks mucho, phil g --but i forgot to remind that the replacement for that incoming petrodollar, all else equal, is going to be a tax dollar --removed first from some consumer's disposable income. Read, that much less incentive to have earned it in the first place. Ergo a dollar that would have been spent out of the most growth-productive pool in the economy, just never arrives.
last quickie -- every other nation gets a pass on its pursuit of self-interest --but not USA.
USA must be simon-pure or else it is the Beast. I don't understand this double-standard, Mika. Is it that USA is the Messiah, and must act like it? Simon wasn't pure. And neither was Peter.
[]But we do this and much more, internationally, for free, and without expectation of even the smallest gratitude.[] These are your words, not mine. All I did is indicate why this assertion is false. I'll tell you what i think. On the basis of this thread, i think you have a new girlfriend. The signs are all there --she's extremely attractive, and also a communist. And she's preventing your getting adequate blood flow to your brain.
Heheh. I get plenty of blood to my head. :D
And yes, she's a tall, gorgeous, half Jewish (on her mother's side) Russian/German blond. She's a Libertarian, like myself. Hates Commies, but has a healthy fear and respect for them, being a Moscovite. aHA -- i knew it --another former intellectual, struck dumb by Aphrodite whispering sweet nothings in his ear, "hey, Mika, how 'bout just for fun you develop some really backward, ridiculous, excessively half-baked political notions, just for fun, and to match my new handbag?"
Perhaps the real Mika is tied up and waiting on some kinky submissive fun with the new girl friend whilst the new girl friend/dominatrix is posting her rantings on Yankee Farm under Mika's name.
#17.1.1.1.1
phil g
on
2008-08-09 08:07
(Reply)
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