We are a commune of inquiring, skeptical, politically centrist, capitalist, anglophile, traditionalist New England Yankee humans, humanoids, and animals with many interests beyond and above politics. Each of us has had a high-school education (or GED), but all had ADD so didn't pay attention very well, especially the dogs. Each one of us does "try my best to be just like I am," and none of us enjoys working for others, including for Maggie, from whom we receive neither a nickel nor a dime. Freedom from nags, cranks, government, do-gooders, control-freaks and idiots is all that we ask for.
Gwynnie looked at Jeff Harrell's blog, Shape of Days, cited below and read the following:
"If we laid down every weapon held by every soldier and every armed civilian, if we completely foreswore violence and gave up our prosecution of the war tonight, our enemies would be unable to wage genocide against us. They simply wouldn’t have the ability. Yes, our enemies can attack us. They can kill Americans by the thousands. They can grievously wound our nation. But wipe us out? Three hundred million Americans? Even if that were their goal, even if they armed themselves with nuclear or other unconventional weapons, it simply wouldn’t be possible.
"While the immediate, day-to-day threat of terrorism is a matter of life and death for every American, what’s really at stake here, in the long term, is the destruction of our culture. To quote Abraham Lincoln, what we face is the possibility that government of the people, by the people and for the people might perish from the Earth."
Gee - they get first punch , and second, and third, and we won't do anything? How many lives is he willing to sacrifice, fifty million? A hundred? Does he know that others in this world depend on us? Their very lives?
Man, is this guy ignorant! Wanna make a daisy garland and see if North Korea can land a nuke in it?
Seriously, this is the liberal left speaking with characteristic hyperbole, and the MSM and a lot of Americans are buying it. Gwynnie wants to pare it down to its essence, but it is difficult to know what part of American culture is at risk and from what. Interrogating prisoners at Gitmo seems to be the 'from what'. What is at risk is our entire culture, as envisioned by Mr. Lincoln. Here's another Shape quote:
This war, as much as any war in our nation’s history and more so than some, is a war of survival. If we choose not to fight, our culture will be overwhelmed by the totalitarian Islam that gathers like a wave in the poor corners of the earth, poised to surge out and bury the liberal democracies of the West. But on the other hand, if we fight this war too thoroughly and too well, our culture will vanish because we’ve chosen to abandon it.
Now we have the essence: in the last fifty years the US Supreme Court has created new rights for criminal suspects (which some think might have gone too far). Let's not look at the issue of whether US burglars and wartime captives deserve the same treatment. If the US military is not nice to terrorists captured on the field of battle trying to kill US soldiers, the author is saying we will have abandoned our entire American culture, even that overwhelming portion of it which predates the newly discovered rights of criminal suspects.
Here it is: Jeff is willing to accept millions of US deaths as well as the fall of the many governments we support and risk being "overwhelmed by totalitarian Islam" (his words) in order to extend US criminal rights to a handful of Islamist terrorists we are detaining to (1) gain actionable intelligence which will save Iraqi and Ameerican lives and (2) prevent their immediate return to the battle to try to kill more Americans. This guy needs a new dog food.
I do not think that is what Jeff means. I have no reason to think that he wishes to enhance the powers of terrorists. He is earnestly concerned about what we might give up in time of war - it's a valid concern and a valid debate. There will always be wars and enemies - there always have been enemies of freedom, since the ancient Greeks.
And Gwynnie Reply
In World War II, we gave up a lot, sacrificed, and paid for the War by buying War Bonds. We put our prisoners in POW camps and kept them there until the war was over. In Iraq, we in the 50 states are giving up nothing. The POW detainees in Gitmo are treated better than prisoners in the Louisiana State Penitentiary, and they’re there for the duration. Please explain why they need US lawyers and trials? Please tell me why not extending them the rights of criminal suspects is a loss of culture.
There is no suggestion by Gwynnie that she thinks Jeff “wishes to enhance the powers of terrorists.” She agrees that Jeff “is earnestly concerned about what we might give up in time of war”, but is unable to discern what he thinks might be given up in the Gitmo detentions. WOOF!
Woof back at ya. All I said was that it was a valid debate. I do not care what you do to them, if it yields useful info and doesn't kill them. If they were me, I would expect the same, or much worse. Just do not let them loose to kill more Americans.