Maggie's Farm

We are a commune of inquiring, skeptical, politically centrist, capitalist, anglophile, traditionalist New England Yankee humans, humanoids, and animals with many interests beyond and above politics. Each of us has had a high-school education (or GED), but all had ADD so didn't pay attention very well, especially the dogs. Each one of us does "try my best to be just like I am," and none of us enjoys working for others, including for Maggie, from whom we receive neither a nickel nor a dime. Freedom from nags, cranks, government, do-gooders, control-freaks and idiots is all that we ask for.

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Thursday, May 31. 2007

Klamath River Dams

A propos of the post of the WSJ article yesterday about the Greenies who want to get rid of the Klamath River dams, here is a photo essay of what one of those dam projects, the Boyle Dam, has done to the Klamath river. It isn't pretty. Photo below of the Boyle Dam.

 

Posted by Bird Dog in Natural History and Conservation at 13:48 | Comments (18) | Trackbacks (0)

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Doesn't look that bad to me.

I like to bath regularly, eat fresh food, and have electricy in my house. Call me crazy.
#1 NJSoldier on 2007-05-31 14:29 (Reply)
No power, not much water, no food. In the same list that y'all condemn-with-out-thinking.

http://www.matilijadam.org/documents/prime.pdf
#1.1 Larry Sheldon on 2007-05-31 14:43 (Reply)
No logging, yup even the trees planted 80 years ago are "old growth" now.
No farming, it takes water and chemicals to do that.
No driving, they haven't built a mile of new freeway in years, the city streets are all pot-holed, bike lanes where cars used to roam...
No dams for electricity, fish are more important, but yet fishing is not banned.

Considering the Feds and ORstate own most of the land, when they get rid of us pesky humans the farms and towns can go back to nature and the only thing you will do with Oregon is look in from outside.

Funny, none of this was a problem for 60-80 years, until the Californians started moving here...
#2 phil on 2007-05-31 15:07 (Reply)
Debates about what is proper stewardship vs. good use vs. abuse of natural resources is an endless one.

Personally, I do not like to see a river put into a pipe. And I do believe that we can get all of the power anyone would ever need from nuke plants.

Phil: I hope you don't think that we are loony greenies here. Far from it. We like farms, too. We are farmers!
#3 BD on 2007-05-31 15:14 (Reply)
As you might notice from my attitude I have lived and worked around power dams for the last 35 years and have greatly benefitted from them and I do believe that the many benefits they provide outweigh the costs. With every type of power there is a trade off. Nuclear power must still be transmitted and this article from syracuse.com underlines the tradeoff. Windmills, i.e., bird cuisinarts, may be coming soon to a waterway near you BD.

More than 300 gather to oppose power line
Posted by Kathy Coffta Sims May 31, 2007 9:17PM
Categories: Breaking News, Madison County, Politics

More than 300 people turned out tonight to voice their opposition to a plan by New York Regional Interconnect to build a $1.6 billion high-voltage power line that would run through parts of Madison and Oneida counties.

The meeting, held at New Hartford High School, was organized by Rep. Michael Arcuri, D-Utica. Arcuri told the audience that he, along with the other local politicians in attendance, wanted to hear what they thought were the best ways to oppose NYRI's plan.

The congressman characterized the gathering as a "team meeting" and asked state Assemblywoman RoAnn Destito of Rome, Utica Mayor Timothy J. Julian and state Sen. Joseph A. Griffo to explain what they were doing to prevent the power line plan from moving forward.

More than 20 residents spoke out at the meeting. Several suggested that the state erect windmills in Long Island Sound to deal with power shortages Downstate. Many said they were frustrated that their communities were being left out of decisions about the power line.
#3.1 Patina on 2007-06-01 08:39 (Reply)
I wonder if "until the Californians started moving here" means "until the Californians that started moving here after we did".

It does in many cases. And this also has nothing to do with dealing with dams of several types--some of those being "poorly thought out", "well thought out, but worn out", and several more.

In some cases the dams are just plain well done and everybody gets along reasonably well.

The immigration bigotry out to be just labeled what it is and dealt with on its own merits, if it is has any.

I always try to help out people like phil from several states--fuel up before I get to the border, try not to stop except at the chicken coops and if necessary to ... wl nevermind.
#4 Larry Sheldon on 2007-05-31 15:28 (Reply)
I know you weren't addressing me (or anyone in particular) re your immigration observation (how did that slip in there anyhow) but please, some aren't bigots just because their views differ from yours re the matter. And BTW, your full name was OK with me. I've always called folks by their given unless they requested different.
#5 Luther McLeod on 2007-05-31 15:52 (Reply)
The evil people in the earlier post were California emigrants.
(Who probably move there from some place else. The 1950 census taker would not accept that my grandfather an grandmother (in the room with my father and I) were born in California.)
#5.1 Larry Sheldon on 2007-05-31 16:04 (Reply)
Please forgive my misunderstanding.
#6 Luther McLeod on 2007-05-31 16:10 (Reply)
Oregon used to be Republican, conservative territory, mostly. This state was built by the largest migration in US history, the Oregon Trail. You might have heard about that. Those people all had something in common and that spirit has lasted, until all the loony greenies and socialists started jumping the good ship California to come here. They did not have that same spirit in common with the pioneers. Now the state is run by Portland, for Portland. Public Employees (past and present) and their families make up an unbeatable voting block. Everyone wants to climb on the wagon, not pull it, and many wish to crack the whip.

Larry- In no case do the dams get along with fish or enviros. All dams must go. No nukes will be built, in fact they just tore one down- Trojan.

I don't give a crap if people move here, just don't go turning Portland into San Fran Sicko on the Willamette.

Why on earth Larry thinks I don't like strangers from other states... I just don't like commie pinko enviro elitists and their anarchist teenaged kids.

Some animals are more equal I guess, I am resigned to work harder.
#7 Phil on 2007-05-31 16:52 (Reply)
I'm sorry, I thought I recognized the rhetoric from the "Welcome to Oregon. Now Go home." sign on US 99 when I was a kid.

Oregon has some good stuff--we import cheese from Tillamook county when we can't find it here, there are other good things.

But your stated and advertized polices toward newcomers, and you hostile environment for commercial trucking (which you depend heavily upon) fit well with the overall opinion I have for Oregon as a place to visit.

Strikes me pretty much as a "I got mine, now let's do what we can to make sure you don't get yours" kind of place.

But I'm not gonna work on that problem any more.

Peace.
#7.1 Larry Sheldon on 2007-05-31 19:12 (Reply)
hang on
we have no sales tax
the cheapest smokes and gas on the west coast
you can pull triples thru here
indian casinos

i never noticed an anti-trucker mood here. Mostly it's anti-SUV and anti-car in general. Anti-capitalist, anti-freedom, anti-republican, anti-life ("choice"), anti-straight- these things are the real reasons to either: visit, or move here to help swing the pendulum back where it belongs.
#7.1.1 Phil on 2007-06-01 11:40 (Reply)
At 55 MPh with the nutcases around the truck in and out like crazed wasps, doing what 80?

Drop in at the chicken coop while your DOT folk greet us.

Haven't been there for a while, how are wer doing ofr a place to park?
#7.1.1.1 Larry Sheldon on 2007-06-01 13:24 (Reply)
I said I wasn't going to work this anymore, and the part I was talking about, I won't.

But as has been said elsewhere, YADATROT[1], on the question of "good dams", "bad dams" and "damned dams".....

There are some dams that should never have been built. San Francisquito. O'Shaughnessy. Anything in the Owens Valley.
There are others.

There are some that were not planned very well (any that cut off the fish, there are others.

Anything the Corps of Engineers has done to the best of my limited knowledge been a disaster.

But there are dams that have been a benifit to all, or at least not a detriment. I don't think of a Pelton wheel house or associated dam built by PG & E that has been a problem, and I think of several that have been generally good for all concerned. I don't know anything about Pacific Corp, but I'll be surprised to learn that it is much different.

There are ways to build dams that do good things at minimal total cost (total cost = capital outlay + environment + on-going expense).

I don't have anything against well designed nukes (same issues, really).

I don't like windmills much because the blight so much land.

I don't know if wave machines will ever become feasible.

solar seems to me to be more expense than it is worth, but I am willing to be instructed.

Who did I neglect to offend?
#8 Larry Sheldon on 2007-05-31 19:48 (Reply)
Forgot the footnote, but it won't let me fix it.
#9 Larry Sheldon on 2007-05-31 20:04 (Reply)
I guess it is just plain not going to let me post it.

Mr. Dog has it in email if he'd like to post ir for me.
#9.1 Larry Sheldon on 2007-05-31 21:55 (Reply)
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#10 Patina on 2007-05-31 20:54 (Reply)
Posting an add to sell something that was pointed to as a sign of distruction seems Just Wrong.
#10.1 Larry Sheldon on 2007-05-31 22:01 (Reply)

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