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Friday, May 25. 2007

A little bit more on the politics of illegal immigration

I heard Thomas Sowell quoted on the radio last night. I don't have the link, but he was asking something like "What problem does this immigration "reform" act solve?" His answer: just one problem - the politicians' problem, which is to look like they are doing something and to get the immigration theme off the table.

Too bad for the politicians: the voters aren't stupid. Too bad for the voters: the pols don't give a damn in this unholy alliance they have made.

Primum non nocere is my advice.

Second, a quote from me, yesterday (Buddy thought it was good):

People are not annoyed because they are racist. They are annoyed because they are being invaded. The fact that this particular invasion is not lead by an army is irrelevant: nowadays, leaving your gun behind is more effective.

People tend to hate to be invaded. It's sorta human not to put up with it, unless you are French.

Posted by Bird Dog in Our Essays, Politics at 07:46 | Comments (44) | Trackbacks (0)

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No way did an illegal Mexico immigrant write that sign.
#1 NJSoldier on 2007-05-25 08:47 (Reply)
I agree.

And why is she dressed like a Near East Terriorist?

Central Casting FU?
#1.1 Laurence F. Sheldon, Jr. on 2007-05-25 14:57 (Reply)
Indeed.
#2 BD on 2007-05-25 08:56 (Reply)
Furthermore, I have no doubt that the cowboy scarf is covering the face of a privileged white middle class college spoiled brat kid, born of a capitalist pig parent!
#2.1 BD on 2007-05-25 08:59 (Reply)
If borders are artificial, how could we be in Mexico?
#3 buddy larsen on 2007-05-25 11:38 (Reply)
Hypocrisy is the name of the game - it's the point of the whole darn thing. The universalist message serves as the intellectual fig leaf covering an unsightly doctrine of invasion and conquest that in practice gets applied in only one direction. Just like Vicente Fox - always complaining that about Mexican illegals' "human rights" while he kept the Mexican army on his southern border to beat and imprison central American immigrants to Mexico.
#3.1 The Dylanologist on 2007-05-25 12:16 (Reply)
Ah, only our borders are artificial. Everybody else is just preserving their territorial and cultural integrity from the depredations of the Yankee hegemon. Or sumpthin'.
#4 Skookumchuk (Link) on 2007-05-25 12:07 (Reply)
And in response to Sowell's question, the bill is also an answer to the problems of there being not enough immigration bureaucracy, not enough trouble with education, social security and the budget, and of there being still far too many of those pesky, Republican-voting white people around. The bill is an effective response to those problems, IMO.
#5 The Dylanologist on 2007-05-25 12:29 (Reply)
Sowell is always great. Good basic simple truths, applied to whatever is the current unsavory Marxo-disaffected-identity group mishmash happens to be fig-leafing the latest grab.
#6 buddy larsen on 2007-05-25 12:35 (Reply)
Appeal for dignity="dumbfucks"
Appeal for race equality="Gringos"
Appeal for borderlessness="this is Mexico"

The left ain't worrying much about "meanings" anymore.
#7 buddy larsen on 2007-05-25 12:41 (Reply)
"Working masses." I think they mean me.
#8 The NJ on 2007-05-25 13:22 (Reply)
This immigration debate always makes me think back some. I remember my Sicilian great grandmother. She lived into her late 90's and she never spoke English very well but she truly believed in America.

Somewhat o/t, but I guess we've all seen "The Godfather". Great movie. Great soundtrack too.

"I believe in America."

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mjqixHHHX2M&mode=related&search=
#9 Patina on 2007-05-25 14:20 (Reply)
ahh geez Mr Hispanic sir with the big sign. May I ask what the F--- took you so long to realize that you had been removed from real estate? And, most importantly why did you not make a claim sooner? What not smart enough? Ohh, I know you never realized that you could breed yourselves out of space. Well, it only took you 150 years to figure out those facts, and how long do you expect me to feed you and yours until you learn to act like good, responsible citizens--another 150 years? I don't think so. If you are so damn smart now--go back home and repair the damage your grandparents did to your own country.
#10 apple pie on 2007-05-25 14:37 (Reply)
Those pudgy pasty white fingers holding the sign hardly look like those of a migrant farm worker.
#11 NJSoldier on 2007-05-25 15:01 (Reply)
What if you have several small children?

What if they all come down with bad "colds"?

What if you get them to a doctor, and the doctor tells you to get some "Sudaphed" or one of the generic (and therefore cheaper) substitutes?

And, what if the pharmacy tech says "Do you have a picture ID?"
#12 Laurence F. Sheldon, Jr. on 2007-05-25 15:01 (Reply)
I saw this happen in a walmart a few days ago. A couple young Mexican guys ahead of me in line tried to buy two economy-sized bottles of cough syrup (containing pseudophedrine), but couldn't produce an ID when asked by the cashier. It's a shame - I'm sure it would have helped their kids with their "colds."
#12.1 Anonymous on 2007-05-25 17:27 (Reply)
I wish I hadn't used the quotes on 'colds' I didn't mean to suggest the kids were not really sick...I meant to suggest that our use of medical terminology is pretty loose.

And my point is, what is the connection between a sick child (who might be a citizen and might not be related to any illegal immigrants) and driving a car, motorcycle, truck or bus?

And what is the connection between that child's illness and the immigration status (as transmitted by the driver's license or lack thereof)?
#12.2 Laurence F. Sheldon, Jr. on 2007-05-25 17:54 (Reply)
I'm not sure what you are trying to argue here: if it is that illegal status should not prevent one from purchasing needed medications, I agree with you, and I think the fact that a driver's license is the requirement is arbitrary. On the other hand, illegals are already provided with huge amounts of free healthcare via emergency room visits which have bankrupted entire hospitals in the southwest. American taxpayers are the ones really suffering, not the sick kids, who are already getting way better care than they ever could in Mexico.
#12.2.1 The Dylanologist on 2007-05-25 18:29 (Reply)
Point is only that in a rational world (in my tormented twisted mind) A sick child, a driver's license, and the immigration status of the person in front of you would be three unrelated concepts.

But that same tormented mind thinks a Berlin Wall (in any incarnation, in any place, erected by anybody) is a bad idea. Period.

That driver's licenses should testify to the possessor's skills in driving the vehicle-type for which it was issued, not as revenue sources or social engineering devices.

That the use of decongestants for illegal purposes should be a burden on the perpetrators not a sick child.
#12.2.1.1 Laurence F. Sheldon, Jr. on 2007-05-25 18:39 (Reply)
and your point sheldon? I don't do what if's I understand that this nation has broken down into a cluster of tribes. Too late for a system of law--we lost that when we began to give special minority groups the right to discipline/judge their own according to their own system of values.
#13 anonymous on 2007-05-25 17:15 (Reply)
So what your telling me is that two poor little illegals were trying to buy the stuff necessary to create illegal drug concoctions, and that nasty ol white cashier wouldn't let em have it? What the heck?
#14 anonymous on 2007-05-25 17:52 (Reply)
No. no!. NO!.

I am most certainly not saying that.

I see now why you are "anonymous". And I regret violating a personal rule against responding to people too cowardly to be responsible for their words.

I'm out.
#14.1 Laurence F. Sheldon, Jr. on 2007-05-25 17:58 (Reply)
Capital punishment is the issue where you let marginal hypotheticals trump all else. To be certain to not execute an innocent justifies extraordinary measures to verify the facts. Otherwise, the great middle is the only workable regulatory consideration.
#15 buddy larsen on 2007-05-25 18:47 (Reply)
I think Mr. Sheldon is forgetting the links we set up in order to protect ourselves. I have to show my ID in order to purchase what was previously over the counter allergy medicine. I can no longer go to Canada and purchase my prescription drugs at the Canadian sales price--even if I do show my identification. I am not quite clear why I should feel sorry for Mr. Sheldon's illegals--whatever their intetions.
Why don't they just stay on the bus and go to Canada and see how well they do? Or, better still why don't they go back home and hold their little revolution in their own house, and throw their own corrupt leaders out, and clean up their own country? The problem we have with Americans not being willing to do "the work", is not solved by bringing in illegal criminals, or illiterates. It would be resolved with a better integration of needs and intentions. How about this: how about we offer to every student seeking a college education the opportunity to work in the fields for one month a year--in exchange for one term's tuition? Who would that hurt--the very big, and as we are now discovering the very corrupt group of powerful investors,who own the student loans. I'll bet that many kids would do that. There are times when the free market does not provide the best solution. That does not mean that I support a kind of socialism what that does mean is that I believe we need to look at the "conundrums" we find
ourselves in, and find better solutions than bringing in law defying, illegals, who are contemptuous of our values, our land and our culture. Sorry--the stakes are too high. The solution too quick and dirty.
#16 apple pie on 2007-05-25 20:49 (Reply)
Just to clarify--again. I am not asking you to feel sorry for anybody but the sick child, wh is probably not illegal. May not be Mexican.

And I'm happy to add to my list people who can not get the medicines that they should be able to get but can not for reasons that have nothing to do with medicine with a small or big "M".

Why didn't the Jews, Poles, Irish, Brits, French...... stay and clean up their mess?

Why did the Germans risk almost certain death to get past wall in Berlin? And why was it eventually torn down?
#16.1 Laurence F. Sheldon, Jr. on 2007-05-25 20:55 (Reply)
I wish I could find some references, but I am pretty sure that a months labor in the fields is not worth a semester's tuition and any school I would want my kids to go to.

I'd have thought the people who hang around here would be a little better grounded in simple economics. Or history.

And again I am without a reference to support my belief, but I lived in the San Francisco Bay Area in the 60's and 70's and that sign is right out of an old SDS handbook, and I'll bet the kid in the mask was born in Plattsburgh or Rutland or some place like that and had never seen a Mexican up close until somebody handed her the siign.
#16.2 Laurence F. Sheldon, Jr. on 2007-05-25 21:08 (Reply)
One last thought and then I'm off to bed, I think. If you can get past the surface, take a look at the root of my postings--it is not a matter of whether iron curtains are good ideas or bad (full disclosure: I think they are bad).

The thing I would like most for people to see and and agree with (and make adjustments to attitudes as indicated) is this:

Iron curtains, Berlin Walls, Maginot Lines, Fences (against people, buffalo, antelopes or rabbits), Red Seas, Big Rivers, and so on do not work. Some of them are frightfully expensive to install and maintain. None of them work. All of them hurt the "owners" far worse than they hurt those against whom they were used.

Love the or hate them--makes no diffeence. they don't work. Never have, never will.
#17 Laurence F. Sheldon, Jr. on 2007-05-25 22:17 (Reply)
I swear to you I did go looking for this or anything like it -- but I thought some of you might be amused:

http://docisinblog.com/index.php/2007/05/07/moses-multiculturalism/
#17.1 Laurence F. Sheldon, Jr. on 2007-05-25 22:28 (Reply)
I'm not a fisherman (not even a very good fisher of men), but shouldn't that feller be using bait of some kind?

I mean I'm pretty much a believer the I will be provided, but it seems like "helping yourself" or doing your part of the work is a part of this thing somehow.
#17.1.1 Laurence F. Sheldon, Jr. on 2007-05-25 22:36 (Reply)
Does that include the wall the Israeli government has installed between Israel and the Palestinians?
#18 anonymous on 2007-05-25 22:26 (Reply)
Of course.

And I am not afraid.
#18.1 Laurence F. Sheldon, Jr. on 2007-05-25 22:31 (Reply)
LS:

I already had that Moses piece in the pipeline for tonite!
#19 BD on 2007-05-25 22:40 (Reply)
The cartoon. Sorry , didn't mean to steal any thunder.
#19.1 Laurence F. Sheldon, Jr. on 2007-05-25 22:43 (Reply)
Walls DO work. For starters, they're holding up that ceiling over your head.
#20 buddy larsen on 2007-05-25 23:01 (Reply)
Trudat. But if somebody wants in, a swift kick and they are in.
#20.1 Laurence F. Sheldon, Jr. on 2007-05-25 23:04 (Reply)
I wish I had taken a little more time with that response. (And I'm going to prune my name down a bit.)

The walls here keep out the people that don't want in, and some that do. But the mice and voles move right in when it gets cold. And so does the wind sometimes, and the rain when it is out of the northwest. (I have spent a bunch of money on the wind and rain problem--it doesn't work.)

The sheetrock on the inside and the beaverboard and foam on the outside would not slow anybody who wanted in very much, and the thermal pane windows are not much better.

And I could spend a ton of our money or lebenty tons of yours beefing the walls up, and all of the rest of this posting would pretty much still be true, as would yours.
#20.1.1 Larry Sheldon on 2007-05-25 23:14 (Reply)
Re name-pruning, I saw this myself one night: film director Peter Bogdanovich was on the Johnny Carson show, chatting about being a second gen immigrant and all. He said that at one point he had entertained the notion of Americanizing his name to "Bogdan".

Carson asked, "Peter Bogdan?"

Bogdanovich, deadpan, answered,

"No, "Bogdan Bogdanovitch."
#21 buddy larsen on 2007-05-25 23:48 (Reply)
Maybe that is the difference: my grandmother (the immigrant) insisted that we all struggle to be the best "Americans" we could be. Forget the old country--she did not bring any of that with her--just the tradition of courtesy and manners. Otherwise, she was an
AMERICAN.
#22 apple pie on 2007-05-26 00:02 (Reply)
Mr. Sheldon: did your parents teach you to attack your hosts, because you don't like the things the other guests say? Did your parents teach you to try to humiliate the host, in order to gain advantage over those with whom you disagree? I don't quite understand why you think that strategy makes you a decent human being.
#23 rhety rick on 2007-05-26 00:04 (Reply)
Well, it is not clear to me who is host and who is not, so "attack your hosts" is of course neither of part of what my mother taught me nor my aim here.

And of course my mother (may her independent soul be enjoying eternal peace) has no more to do with this discussion than the sick child does with our war on brown people.

If I have offended I am truly sorry, thee are people here with whom I disagree on some issues, but I thought there was considerable agreement on others.

It would be interesting to see a list of the places where I have attacked people (my stated distaste for people that hide behind "anonymous" would probably be there) instead of attacking errors and mistakes (as I see them, of course. Don't bother to point those out--that is the essence of disagreement and debate.

I would especially like to have my attention directed to where I humiliated a host or anybody else.

I thought when I came across this place that it was different from the cargo cult 60's mentality forums that I keep finding.

But I guess it is in fact just another "say what every you like as long as it agrees absolutely with our world view.

I'll drop off your private place--if you are a "host" you have my email address if there is something else you would like for me to see.

I don't think blanket apologies are worth a lot in general but it is the best I know how to do at the moment.

I am sorry. Very sorry.
#23.1 Larry Sheldon on 2007-05-26 08:51 (Reply)
http://www.despair.com/compromise.html
#23.1.1 Larry Sheldon on 2007-05-26 12:14 (Reply)
I think that's just LS's style, rhety rick. Not mean, just cantankerous. I'm too am oft accused of cantankering.
#24 buddy larsen on 2007-05-26 00:33 (Reply)
As the Top Dog and Head Host, I have no problem with anybody. We are a civilized blog, and we all raise our pinkies whien we drink a cup of tea from a china cup.
#25 BD on 2007-05-26 10:50 (Reply)
BD indicates precisely what he means to say.
#26 buddy larsen on 2007-05-26 12:40 (Reply)

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