Maggie's FarmWe are a commune of inquiring, skeptical, politically centrist, capitalist, anglophile, traditionalist New England Yankee humans, humanoids, and animals with many interests beyond and above politics. Each of us has had a high-school education (or GED), but all had ADD so didn't pay attention very well, especially the dogs. Each one of us does "try my best to be just like I am," and none of us enjoys working for others, including for Maggie, from whom we receive neither a nickel nor a dime. Freedom from nags, cranks, government, do-gooders, control-freaks and idiots is all that we ask for. |
Our Recent Essays Behind the Front Page
Categories
QuicksearchLinks
Blog Administration |
Tuesday, May 15. 2007Sam Harris and Chris HitchinsThe New Yorker reviews two books about the 4th largest religion in the world - Atheism. Well, all this talk about atheism is no big deal to me. Let's face it - very few of those Greeks and Romans ever really believed in their Gods: these cultural ancestors of the West lead secular lives until Christianity arrived on the scene, and changed the color of everything. Atheism is the oldest religion in the world, and the easiest to follow: it spares you the trouble of having to trouble the brain by contemplating an entire dimension of reality - by just closing the shutters on the windows to it. Very appealing, really. Trackbacks
Trackback specific URI for this entry
No Trackbacks
Comments
Display comments as
(Linear | Threaded)
Very appealing until the spector of death makes an appearance - then it's pure terror.
I've seen men get on their knees and pray for the first time while artillery shells fell around us and people were screaming about a gas attack. I am in the mood for some contemplation, just what entire dimension of reality should I be concentrating on? You don't seem to be making any account for us pragmatic atheist's, who think there may be a higher being, but don't believe it gives a damn ...
You aren't an atheist, then. But I was just referring to the "vertical," rather thah the "horizontal" dimensions of existence, as One Cosmos calls them.
I suppose Apatheist is a bit more correct, than pragmatic Atheist, just so we don't get caught up in labels ... (humour)
I guess my issues stem mostly from the monolithic God concept. From growing up a farmer, to now working on the water, I suppose if I needed dieties I'd want them more localised and in the moment. Looks like more research into paganism is in my future, or hydroponics ... I haven't taken the proper time as yet too reflect on your post NJ. But my quick response is, you're mistaken. Isn't it faith that sustains both. My take is, everyone doubts, believer or not, if they have a whit of brain. I could take the extremes of both and demonstrate "closing the shutters." But the great middle shoulders on, unsure, uncertain and in their depths, wondering about the great beyond.
"Atheism is the oldest religion in the world,..."
Probably not. There had to be a religion, a belief in a god first for the atheist to have some being/religion not to believe in. Do you honestly think early man said to himself one day, "I think I'll not believe in any supernatural beings."? "it spares you the trouble of having to trouble the brain by contemplating an entire dimension of reality - by just closing the shutters on the windows to it." Chances are, just the opposite took place. Could be someone in a foxhole decried his belief when his god didn't stop the bomb that took his leg. Could be a few parents of the victims at Virginia Tech decry their belief that god didn't reach out his hand and stop those bullets. Ah, but that dimension of reality speaks to all......... It's just the braindead and lazy thinkers who lose, eh? How insulting you are. Hitchens debated Sharpton recently on the subject of the existence of God. Reading the transcript I would say Loopy Al got the better of Hitch. He must have had a little help from the God that don't exist.
Bruce Wilson from Bolg and Mayblog is having a debate in installments at the Christianity Today site. He is also covering it on his website breaking the book down by topics. Seems to me to be demolishing Hitchens arguments quite handily on the factual level and sympathetically on the personal level. He hopes to convince and convert. Hitches brother works for a Brit newspaper and is a Christian and conservative. http://www.dougwils.com/ I never for a moment believed God would stop the bullet aimed at my head. I saw death coming my way and prayed for salvation in the next life. I asked for courage and for God to comfort my family.
An atheist would see only oblivion coming. Correction. I incorrectly said the Bruce Wilson was debating Chris Hitchens in my last post. It's Douglas Wilson. I shouldn't comment so late at night.
I like believers, because the real ones don't fault me for being a non-believer. Go back and read that part of your bible.
If you think Atheists are your enemy: Who will stand up against the foot baths and Sharia law? You and I. Who will stand up against the phony religion of Global Warming? You and I. Now if I could only get the splinters out of my eye that fell off the plank in your eye. Keep the eye poking for the militant atheists (fakers- they have faith in their movement it's also a pseudo religion) when they raise their stinky heads to get attention, and try not to help them sell books if you like, rather than the opposite as you achieved with your post. I never for a moment believed God would stop the bullet aimed at my head. I saw death coming my way and prayed for salvation in the next life. I asked for courage and for God to comfort my family.
An atheist would see only oblivion coming. #7 NJSoldier on 2007-05-16 09:09 (Reply) You, high atop your chrome horse..... Are you God's diplomat who knows all? How you deign to know what an atheist thinks? How you deign to insult perfect strangers whose lives you know nothing about? Are you all-knowing? If not, on what basis do you make such remarks? You're a deist, I take it. Amazing to see there are people who are actually cheering Al Sharpton on. "He must have had a little help from the God that don't exist." NJ,
You are silent. Is this your mark of disapproval for anyone questioning your post? Or is it as Phil mentions that you see militancy where there is only questioning? In fact, the only militancy I note is in your post. Why do you scorn non-believers as you do? Honest question. Do you consider them less than you? And if so, why and on what basis? . I wasn't cheering Sharpton on, in fact I was noncommital. I was just surprised that that a man of Hitchens intellect did not massacre Sharpton.
I don't put much faith in debates as convincers of one side or the other. And I most certainly don't think Christians any better than atheists on any ethical level. That is why I don't attend church even though I'm a believer. I think we are all beggars only some of us know where the crumbs are. By the way, I just got asked not to post on a Christian site for being too ' pugnacious ' and ' beligerant '. haha - Sean. Your last line. Some sites loathe anyone who dares to question. There is a Christian predator who lurks between Dr. Sanity's and Betsy's Page (I haven't caught her on others yet...), but she uses the same line of attack every time. She's relentless as if it is her mission to attack non-believers.
I'm always curious about Christians who think they're better than anyone else. I don't think any of us are beggars. I figure some of us are just more open-minded than others. So what. It only matters when one group denigrates the other. I trust that NJ's silence indicates where he stands - above those of us who dare to question. As far as Sharpton - watch how he 'debates'. He doesn't. He is masterful at turning every question to him into a return question. It's a lame method of silencing an opponent by reversing the burden of proof. He's a charlatan, and he also raises his voice in outrage as he plays the trump card of changing the subject from defense to offense. Bill O'Reilly did the same thing to Richard Dawkins last week. It was shameful. And I'm not talking about the subject matter. I'm talking about debating and cheating. . I guess the best way to convert someone, in some Christians eyes, is to attack them. That doesn't sound very Christian to me.
The Sharpton and Hitchens debate, as you say was not a debate but a show and Sharpton was the better showman. I couldn't think of anyone worse than Sharpton to represent the Diest point of view cept Jesse Jackson. Ravi Zacharias use to debate from the Christian perspective with great effectiveness and he said that he cannot recall anyone coming to Christ through debating. so he no longer debates publicly. I think debates encourage people to dig in and entrench themselves within their pre-debate positions, whereas it should be an exchange of ideas and principles that help people come to a logical personal conclusion of which side makes the most sense. No theatrics or rhetorical trickery just honest clarification of issues. I came to Christ thru the patience and love of a friend, who ended up murdered by Farc in Columbia after being kidnapped for a year. He also pointed me to CS Lewis's book Mere Christianity which helped me to see that you did not have to surrender your brain to be a Christian, although I'm sure there are a few that have or maybe they never had one (the Dr. Sanity stalker ). In any event Christianity should not be judged by the actions of Christians, but on a personal open minded investigation into whether Jesus is who He says He is. True Christianity some say is not a religion. Religion is a belief in a system of concepts. Christianity is the belief in a Person that Person being Jesus. I would suggest some good books for someone who is honestly seaching: Evidence for a Verdict and More Than a Carpenter by Josh Mac Dowell, Mere Christianity by CS Lewis or anything by Lewis. Anything by Francis Schaeffer and of coarse the Bible. Read the Bible with someone who knows it and ask tough questions. Sheesh. I was being tongue-in-cheek in that post. I happen to be a believing Christian, but sometimes I wish I were not one. Life would be so much easier.
NJSoldier, I hope you do not think that anything I,ve said pertains to you. I,ve reread your posts and don,t see any maliciousness on your part. I may of missed something but some of the reactions seemed oversensitive and read too much into what you said. I could be wrong.
|