Maggie's Farm

Sending someone to indefinite detention in a foreign prison without due process is an affront to liberty. Nor should Garcia have been deported if there were evidence he had committed serious prosecutable crimes in the United States (which tends to support the claim that the prosecution is pretextual).


That's simply false. The Trump administration is paying El Salvador to imprison deportees without due process.


Yes, authoritarian governments often have low non-political crime rates. However, they lack the checks and balances, including an independent judiciary, that protect the innocent, the right to dissent, and a right to a say in the political process.


If, after due process, Garcia is found to have committed crimes, then he should be held accountable consistent with other such cases. But don't just take the government's word for it. That's the road to tyranny.

Assistant Village Idiot: What is the solution when there are 11M cases?

Some people who had once claimed to believe in limited republican government now advocate for unchecked presidential power.

Due process for migrants doesn't necessarily entail a full trial. It does require some independent oversight to prevent abuses and rectify mistakes. Unaccountable power is unchecked power. Addressing the problem doesn't require the president breaking the law, but it does require the president working within the system in good faith. It will also probably require new legislation. Of course, there will be opposition, and compromises will be made, but that is the nature of the democratic process.

Assistant Village Idiot: so your solution is handwaving

While addressing immigration, especially unvetted immigration, is important, preserving the Great Writ of Liberty and the republican form of government is paramount, without which, there is only tyranny.

The flow of undocumented migrants should be addressed, but currently, many others are also being deported (some to indefinite detention). Gee whiz. Princess Elisabeth, Duchess of Brabant, is under threat of deportation because she is studying at Harvard (currently under a court stay).

Where the legal tools are insufficient, the president must go to Congress. That's how republican government works. That's hardly handwaving. On the other hand, acceding unchecked power to the president to detain and deport people (some to indefinite detention) is an affront to liberty and to the republican form of government. If you mean, some people want more immigration and others want less, then that is the nature of democracy, and compromise will almost certainly be necessary. Or do you think you should just have your way, regardless of what your fellow citizens want?

Texan99: Nothing much was happening until ICE showed up in an L.A. neighborhood intended to arrest some illegal aliens.

While there was certainly lawbreaking, there were also legal protests. As of this time, there have been only about a dozen injuries, including several journalists. The amount of violence was well within the means of state and local law enforcement to address.

Federalizing the National Guard was provocative and unnecessary. It also means, under the law, the Guard are no longer available for law enforcement. Calling in the Marines was clearly meant to punish the state, just as Trump has tried to punish other so-called Blue states. The president threatening to arrest the governor without basis is tantamount to authoritarianism.