Maggie's Farm

As noted on a previous thread: Even a century ago, the United States couldn't stay out of global conflicts. Events in small countries that most Americans couldn't pick out on a map would impact their lives in profound ways. The world is much smaller now, countries even more interconnected, so the United States will continue to have a role to play in international affairs. And deterrence built on strong alliances is much cheaper in the long run than allowing aggressors free rein.

Then there can't be peace, because Russia has shown it will break the peace whenever they think they have an advantage, including engaging in gray warfare against democracies.

Despite what Trump says, Russia invaded Ukraine in violation of international law. Russia has committed atrocities against Ukrainians in captured territories, and they have historically brutalized Ukrainians, including in the Holodomor. Ukrainians are fighting for the lives, because defeat means death.

Trump is aligning the United States with an economically weak autocratic Russia, away from economically advanced democratic allies; while also gutting the American government internally. While America's relative power will inevitably wane as the rest of the world develops; rather than a graceful transition, Trump's actions risk a precipitous and calamitous collapse of the international order. As one scholar put it, it's the stupidest imperial collapse in history.

feeblemind: Then the war goes on until their aren't enough Ukrainians left to fight.

Ukraine should be able to continue to fight as long as they have sufficient munitions. They have become masters of drone warfare. Frankly, they have no choice. It's either fight and die or kneel and die.

feeblemind: Our national debt is a much bigger threat to US than what happens in Ukraine.

That's what the American political right said when Hitler invaded Poland in September 1939. What could events in that insignificant country have to do with America?!

feeblemind: Are you suggesting that Putin is going to declare war on the USA?? Because if you are not your analogy does not hold up.

The point was that events in seemingly out of the way places can have a profound impact on the lives of Americans. By the way, the courage of the Ukrainians have already restrained Russia's aggressive tendencies. They have made Russia pay a high price for their bellicosity. Putin won't declare open war, but will continue to use gray warfare, while bullying smaller countries on their periphery.

Lord Heathen: Putin has no interest in anything west of the Dnieper river from the very beginning... Putin hasn't even made a move towards Odessa or Kyiv for that matter and there's never been anything stopping them from going all in and doing that.

Oh, gee whiz.

mudbug: The West, especially the US via Sec. State James Baker in 1990, had promised Russia that NATO would not expand “one inch eastward.”

Gorbachev says it never happened. Regardless, it wasn't part of any written agreement which would have precedence over anything said before.

mudbug: There’s not just one side to the story.

Sure. But just keep repeating Russian propaganda.