Maggie's Farm

We are a commune of inquiring, skeptical, politically centrist, capitalist, anglophile, traditionalist New England Yankee humans, humanoids, and animals with many interests beyond and above politics. Each of us has had a high-school education (or GED), but all had ADD so didn't pay attention very well, especially the dogs. Each one of us does "try my best to be just like I am," and none of us enjoys working for others, including for Maggie, from whom we receive neither a nickel nor a dime. Freedom from nags, cranks, government, do-gooders, control-freaks and idiots is all that we ask for.

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Saturday, November 11. 2023

Saturday morning links

 Top 100 Movie Dances


 What the Octopus Knows - A scuba-diving philosopher explores invertebrate intelligence and consciousness.


 Ohio schoolgirl says she was harassed by male who 'asked to join in' while she was changing in restroom - as dozens of students walk out to protest school's transgender bathroom policy


 American dad who moved to Sweden with his young daughter reveals the staggering differences in European school system that ultimately forced his family to RETURN to the US


 The Perils of Affective Polarization - Our increasing desire to isolate ourselves from supporters of the opposite party can have dire consequences


DOUGLAS MURRAY IN ISRAEL


 White House Aides "Simply Cannot Stomach" Biden's Israel Policy, Dissent Memos Leak, Revolt At State Dept


The Nation:  What It’s Like to Take Over the Statue of Liberty - Hundreds of Jewish Voice for Peace members calling for a Gaza cease-fire occupied the pedestal of the statue. This is how it happened.


 HITLER YOUTH AT MIT





Posted by Bird Dog in Hot News & Misc. Short Subjects at 08:11 | Comments (33) | Trackbacks (0)

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Re: DOUGLAS MURRAY

It is barbaric, disgusting, sub-human. This is the difference that none of the anti-Jewish protestors fail to comprehend. The "Palestinian" children are taught beginning from when they are babies until they are adults that they should kill Jews and take pride in killing innocent Jewish woman and children. This will not end, can never end until Palestinian parents chose to love their children more than they hate Jews. This fighting will only stop when you kill enough of them that they cannot fight anymore. Israel won't do that. They will try to kill or capture every last Hamas fighter but it will merely kick that can down the road to another Hamas attack on innocent civilians.
#1 OneGuy on 2023-11-11 09:16 (Reply)
At U.N. schools. Go figure.
#1.1 Don on 2023-11-11 09:23 (Reply)
QUOTE:
American dad who moved to Sweden with his young daughter reveals the staggering differences in European school system that ultimately forced his family to RETURN to the US

PISA (Programme for International Student Assessment) measured proficiency at age 15.
    Mathematics
    Sweden, 502
    OECD, 489
    United States, 478

    Science
    United States, 503
    Sweden, 499
    OECD, 489

    Reading
    Sweden, 506
    United States, 505
    OECD, 487

The Human Development Index is a measure of overall societal health, and includes health, education, income, and overall living conditions.
    Country, index, rank
    Sweden, 0.947, 7
    United States, 0.921, 21
#2 Zachriel on 2023-11-11 09:41 (Reply)
These statistics are meaningless. Most countries do not test everyone so it is not a measure of the countries schools and the students abilities. China for example excludes far more than half their population from these tests and therefore their statistical scores appear higher. The U.S. is unique amongst the worlds countries in that it has a huge population of slackers and non-performers propped up by a massive welfare system that rewards slacking and non-performing. If you look only at the statistical score of Americans of European descent America exceeds almost all nations in these areas.

We do have an education problem but it is mostly a subsidized welfare system that promotes non-performance and crime.
#2.1 OneGuy on 2023-11-11 10:11 (Reply)
Another interesting fact is that 60% of Swedes are bilingual, English typically being the second language. The United States is 23% bilingual, mostly people of Hispanic heritage.
#2.2 Zachriel on 2023-11-11 10:12 (Reply)
So Quibble-DickZ, any idea how many black or Hispanic people live in Sweden?
#2.2.1 Zachinoff on 2023-11-11 14:36 (Reply)
OneGuy: Most countries do not test everyone so it is not a measure of the countries schools and the students abilities.

While it is true that China only tests people in highly developed areas, Sweden fully participates in PISA.

OneGuy: The U.S. is unique amongst the worlds countries in that it has a huge population of slackers and non-performers propped up by a massive welfare system that rewards slacking and non-performing.

Sweden's social support system is even more developed than that of the United States.

OneGuy: If you look only at the statistical score of Americans of European descent America exceeds almost all nations in these areas.

If you only include Usain Bolt, then Jamaicans are the fastest runners in the world. Are you saying non-European Americans are not Americans?
#2.3 Zachriel on 2023-11-11 10:19 (Reply)
The Quibble-DickZ love to toss in red herrings.
#2.3.1 Zachinoff on 2023-11-11 14:25 (Reply)
What were you saying to me about reading the link. They were sending their child to a private school in the US. Private schools aren't a thing in Sweden. You'd need to have PISA data for US private schools for a valid comparison. Wouldn't you? Again, do you have an actual point?
#2.4 James on 2023-11-11 17:06 (Reply)
James: Private schools aren't a thing in Sweden.

Huh? The author’s child started in private school in Sweden. There are hundreds of independent schools in Sweden, including boarding schools.
#2.4.1 Zachriel on 2023-11-11 20:45 (Reply)
You're so predictable. The "private" schools in Sweden are required to use the state provided curriculum, follow the state mandated discipline policy and calendar as well as the same staff credentialing. They receive the tuition payment from the government, not the parent. (It's like the LW quasi-socialist Swedish governments were following the fascist economic model). Additionally, PISA scores for Sweden include these private schools. PISA scores from the US do not include private schools.
Again, do you have an actual point?
#2.4.1.1 James on 2023-11-12 09:54 (Reply)
James: The "private" schools in Sweden are required to use the state provided curriculum . . .

Much like charter schools in the United States. There are also fully private schools for children in Sweden, such as the British International School of Stockholm, suitable for students who have English as a first language.

Do you have an actual point?
#2.4.1.2 Zachriel on 2023-11-12 11:01 (Reply)
Charter schools are not counted as part of the 9% of the US students who attend private schools. They are public schools. The scores for their students are included in PISA data.
The number of actual private schools in Swede, including the example you mention and a few legacy schools that have managed to survive, probably don't account for even .5% of the total student population of Sweden.
My point is obvious. that data you used to try to make a point is not valid data. It does not compare the academic performance of the type of school the girl attended in the US with the kind of school she attended in Sweden. Why don't you just come out and admit that I'm right and that your point was not based on any valid evidence, instead of continuing this back and fourth?
#2.4.1.2.1 James on 2023-11-12 17:10 (Reply)
Charter schools are not counted as part of the 9% of the US students who attend private schools. They are public schools. The scores for their students are included in PISA data.
The number of actual private schools in Sweden, including the example you mention and a few legacy schools that have managed to survive, probably don't account for even .5% of the total student population of Sweden.
My point is obvious. that data you used to try to make a point is not valid data. It does not compare the academic performance of the type of school the girl attended in the US with the kind of school she attended in Sweden. Why don't you just come out and admit that I'm right and that your point was not based on any valid evidence, instead of continuing this back and fourth?
#2.4.1.2.2 James on 2023-11-12 17:17 (Reply)
James: Charter schools are not counted as part of the 9% of the US students who attend private schools.

PISA normally groups government-dependent private schools with government-independent private schools. Of note, the vast majority of government-independent private schools in the United States are religious.

There are two avenues to this discussion:

The first avenue is the author's specific situation. It's not clear if he is returning to the United States to enroll their child in a private or public school. However, as incorrectly claimed above, there are government-independent private schools in Sweden, including those that cater to ex-patriots. It is correct that there are far fewer students enrolled in government-independent private schools in Sweden than in most other OECD nations, but that may be because of the generally high quality of their school system and the generous voucher system. If, as seems to be above, people are comparing a private school in America to a public school in Sweden, then that would be an apples-to-oranges comparison.

The second avenue is a comparison of U.S. schools to Swedish schools, but testing shows they are at least comparable, though U.S. schools are behind their peers in mathematics.
#2.4.1.2.3 Zachriel on 2023-11-13 08:13 (Reply)
The International School of the Gothenburg Region is in the area where the author was residing. It caters to English-speaking students ages 5 to 19, and costs about 40,470 SEK per academic year.
#2.4.1.2.3.1 Zachriel on 2023-11-13 08:24 (Reply)
James: Additionally, PISA scores for Sweden include these private schools. PISA scores from the US do not include private schools.

Both countries include charter schools in their PISA results.
#2.4.1.3 Zachriel on 2023-11-12 11:15 (Reply)
Small difference in averages, but so what? This is the Ecological Fallacy, arguing about an individual difference based on the average of groups. What less enlightened folks call stereotyping.
#2.5 Mike Anderson (Link) on 2023-11-11 17:34 (Reply)
Mike Anderson: Small difference in averages, but so what?

The claim is that Sweden would leave their child academically behind compared to U.S. schools, primarily because they emphasize socialization and play for young children. Hence, the average academic performance of students in the two countries is directly relevant. Sweden does significantly better in mathematics, the U.S. does a bit better in science, and they are about the same in reading. As pointed out, though, Swedish children are more likely to know two languages.
#2.5.1 Zachriel on 2023-11-11 20:54 (Reply)
QUOTE:
HITLER YOUTH AT MIT

The professor asked the protesters to wait until he was done with his equation. They quietly complied. When the professor was finished, they chanted for a minute. Then they left. The horror.
#3 Zachriel on 2023-11-11 09:55 (Reply)
So a student who has paid (or whose family has paid) as much as $80,000 a year to sit in that class and receive a highly specialized lecture in their chosen career field also has to put up with the distraction of an absurd political rant as well.

Sounds like good grounds for a class action suit against MIT to me.
#3.1 JJM on 2023-11-11 13:21 (Reply)
JJM: So a student who has paid (or whose family has paid) as much as $80,000 a year to sit in that class and receive a highly specialized lecture in their chosen career field also has to put up with the distraction of an absurd political rant as well.

A distraction after the professor had finished. Just like Hitler.
#3.2 Zachriel on 2023-11-11 13:35 (Reply)
Quietly, you say? His presence at the head of the class was as much distraction as if he was talking, or yelling his nazi free Palestine bs. Why in the classroom at all? Students should be able to focus all their attention on the professor. The nazi standing off to the side was a distraction. Again, why in the classroom at all?

No surprise that you and all your personalities would support this.

You wouldn’t support this disruption if the protests were in favor of, picking something at random, Donald Trump. Or if they were pro life, waving pictures of fetuses having their brains sucked out. And neither would I. There are plenty of places outside the classroom to stage protests.
#4 B. Hammer on 2023-11-11 12:46 (Reply)
B. Hammer: You wouldn’t support this disruption if the protests were in favor of, picking something at random, Donald Trump.

That wouldn't make them Hitler.
#4.1 Zachriel on 2023-11-11 13:38 (Reply)
You're still butting in at the grownup's table, I see.


"That wouldn't make them Hitler."

The article didn't say it made them like Hitler--it compared them to the Hitler youth, and to a hilarious Mel Brooks skit. Quite accurately so. You haven't a single honest instinct, do you?
#4.1.1 SK on 2023-11-11 14:31 (Reply)
SK: The article didn't say it made them like Hitler--it compared them to the Hitler youth

We stand corrected. That doesn't make them Hitler Youth.

QUOTE:
Mel Brooks: I remember at one of the previews, this big guy got out of his seat – this is true – he's storming up the aisle saying, "How dare you? This is disgraceful. Where's Mel Brooks?" I met him at the top of the aisle, and he was a big guy. Scary guy. And he said, "I was a soldier and I fought for this country, I was in World War II." And I said to him, "I was in World War II, also. I didn't see you there." {laughs}
#4.1.2 Zachriel on 2023-11-11 15:21 (Reply)
"That wouldn't make them Hitler"

The difference here is very subtle and you might have missed it (sarc). The pro-Palestinians are asking for, no! demanding the genocide of the Jews. Most other demonstrations (well not BLM or Antifa) don't demand violence against an entire culture or segment of the population. Do you see how that demand is "Hitler like"???

Probably not, because these angry violent protestors, like Hitler, are left wing and you support and excuse/apologize for all left wing groups regardless of their actions.
#4.1.3 OneGuy on 2023-11-11 15:41 (Reply)
OneGuy: The pro-Palestinians are asking for, no! demanding the genocide of the Jews.

The students in the video did not do so.
#4.1.3.1 Zachriel on 2023-11-11 16:07 (Reply)
"The students in the video did not do so."

You do know what "from the river to the sea" means, don't you. It is a left wing/terrorist dog whistle meaning to eliminate Israel and kill all the Jews. I do understand why you don't want to discuss the Palestinian goal in this. Who would? Well yes the Democrats/communists want to discuss it but in a sanitized dog whistle kind of way and then make believe that genocide of the Jews is not what they want, wink, wink, nudge, nudge!!!
#4.1.3.1.1 OneGuy on 2023-11-11 18:35 (Reply)
Bet the Quibble-DickZ wouldn’t have any problem with someone standing up in front of a class proclaiming, "You Will Not Replace Us!".
#4.1.3.1.1.1 Zachinoff on 2023-11-11 20:59 (Reply)
OneGuy: You do know what "from the river to the sea" means, don't you.

The chant was “Free, free Palestine!”
#4.1.3.1.2 Zachriel on 2023-11-11 20:57 (Reply)
Regarding UN, Bathhouse Barry signed over everything.
These things happen when political parties work only for foreign donors.
The most worthless populace in human history outsourced everything.
External enemies say your terms are acceptable.
It couldn't happen to a nicer bunch of sportsball grillers and breaking...Taylor Vocoder was sighted at the Chief's game!
Reductio ad Hitlerum has a shelf life and the 19-44 demographic considers it ancient history.
#5 The King of Piney Cones Estates Acres Lakes on 2023-11-11 14:20 (Reply)
Popcorn get your popcorn!
Just read at Breitbart that comrade Dershowitz claims Obama has always had a deep seated hatred of Israel!
May a Schism rip the communist Long March left.
Good thing I picked up some extra bags of Skinny Pop Friday.
Tip of the hat to all veterans.
To USMC Grampaw and 101st Airborne Pappy especially.
#6 Captain Smirk on 2023-11-11 15:24 (Reply)

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