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Monday, October 9. 2023

Who are Palestinians, and how are they oppressed?

Or is this just about Iran causing more chaos, with Palestine and Gaza as an excuse?

Posted by Bird Dog at 16:01 | Comments (30) | Trackbacks (0)

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"Palestinians" are Arabs from Syria and other Arabic countries. Most/many of them moved to Palestine after the turn of the last century. There were some Arabic nomad tribes living there throughout recorded history but they were few and probably at this point very few "Palestinians" are descended from those tribes. In the period between 1920-1945 or so the Arabs from Syria became sufficient in number to begin to actively oppose the Jews who lived there and this broke out into open fighting a few times. Prior to the fighting the Jews and Arabs there often worked together to scratch a living out of the desert. But, again, once the total Arab population was a major minority they became quite belligerent and made attempts to push the Jews out. To this day the "Palestinians" are known to visit Syria and other countries of origin to visit relatives. So it's not really a secret that they are not "native" to the region.

They could easily go back to the countries of origin and be far more comfortable with fellow countrymen who worshipped and thought that same as them, but they prefer to stay and suffer and be martyrs for their religion in the effort to eliminate the Jews. This entire "Palestinian" thing is a fake, a pretext that gives them standing to justify their martyrdom and keep the Middle East inflamed.

#1 OneGuy on 2023-10-09 16:21 (Reply)

Suffer how?

#1.1 Bird Dog on 2023-10-09 16:24 (Reply)

Suffer on the world stage to increase the numbers of peoples and governments that will condone the terrorists acts taken in their behalf. To play the part of the poor and oppressed to garner money from richer and stupid countries so that the money can be used to fund even more terrorism. They do this willingly and knowingly because they hate Israel more than they love their own children.

#1.1.1 OneGuy on 2023-10-09 18:00 (Reply)

Palestinians are Jordanians, for the most part. But they’ve worn out their welcome with their own people and just about all the Arab countries. They violently destabilized Jordan and Lebanon long ago. There are currently 68 Palestinian refugee camps. They are kept in camps as sorts of pets of the UN in Jordan, Lebanon, Syria, the West Bank, and the Gaza Strip.

#2 Erasmus on 2023-10-09 16:48 (Reply)

I still don't get it

#2.1 BD on 2023-10-09 17:10 (Reply)

I've lived in 4 Muslim countries, and 2 Arab Muslim countries. I can tell you, brutality is a way of life in all of them, but especially the latter.

What I have read is that Palestinians are mostly Syrian and Jordanian, and there is some aspect of being outcasts from their heritage peoples. The land has been contested, has changed ownership, has changed colonial leadership many times, but it should be clear by now that Jew and Arabs alike have obtained clear individual title to most of their land, legally, through lawful purchase.

Palestinians are professional grievance mongers. The level of their duplicity over the years has been brought to light over and over again, not just fraud over political grievances, but fraud for international aid, deception for making war, and many, many unprovoked aggressions. But neither side is wearing a halo.

However, the Muslim countries that I lived and worked in had more constructive ways to pursue their religious beliefs, some of them pretty impressive in their commitment to others in their group, and to the principles of supportive community for all.

The whole 'martyrdom' scene appears to me to have been carefully crafted by the elderly mullahs to keep a steady stream of ignorant young men convinced of a shortcut to the virgins and everlasting Glory. In my view, their religion is still in its Puritan phase, which in this country's history, was pretty grim, if you recall. I was hoping that the Abraham accords would pave the way to an Enlightenment phase and some moderation, but I guess that's ain't happening this time around.

#3 Aggie on 2023-10-09 18:14 (Reply)

We are so F...ed ! https://twitter.com/TonySeruga/status/1711408592186974246?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw%7Ctwcamp%5Etweetembed%7Ctwterm%5E1711408592186974246%7Ctwgr%5E190eded3d1644537357daafe41a7f9913c20e2eb%7Ctwcon%5Es1_&ref_url=http%3A%2F%2Fanodtothegods.com%2F

#4 Anon on 2023-10-09 19:10 (Reply)

Bird Dog: Who are Palestinians,

With regards to paternal lineages (y-chromosome), Palestinians and Jews are closely related populations with ancient roots in Palestine/Israel. See Hammer et al., Jewish and Middle Eastern non-Jewish populations share a common pool of Y-chromosome biallelic haplotypes, PNAS 2000.

Bird Dog: and how are they oppressed?

Most of the people in Gaza are descended from people ethnically cleansed from Israel in 1948 during the Nakba. Today, Gaza essentially acts as a prison and has been under blockade since 2006. Thousands have been killed by Israeli forces over the years. In the West Bank, Israeli settlements continue to expand, with radicals insisting Jews have the God-given right to all of the region.

#5 Zachriel on 2023-10-09 21:48 (Reply)

Most of the people native to the ME are genetically related. A known fact of little value.

"... ethnically cleansed from Israel in 1948 during the Nakba"

An intentional lie on your part. The bad actors, those who killed or tried to kill Jews, were pushed out, the rest had a choice to stay. In fact at that time more Arabs chose to stay within Israel than leave. If there was "ethnic cleansing" the Arabs did it by their own choice.

There are two contradictions to what you have said about ethnic cleansing. First you say that ethnically the Jews and Arabs are the same and then you accuse the Jews of "ethnic cleansing" by forcing the militants out who happen to be Arabs. You can't have it both ways.

Second if a group of people are going to kill you and it is a simple choice of kill them first or be killed does it really matter what either parties ethnicity is? I mean except to use that slur "ethnic cleansing" to further sully the reputation of the group you yourself hate. I can guarantee that anytime someone uses that phrase "ethnic cleansing" they are merely showing their hatred of the surviving group and not offering anything of substance to the discussion. Throwing those pejoratives around like hand grenades is a mark of a low intelligence and lack of honor to use those slurs in place of facts to support your pathetic argument.

#5.1 OneGuy on 2023-10-10 11:04 (Reply)

OneGuy: Most of the people native to the ME are genetically related.

If you read the study, the data shows that Palestinians and Jews diverged in the Neolithic, and they are more closely related by patrilineal descent to one another than either are to most Arabs.

OneGuy: The bad actors, those who killed or tried to kill Jews, were pushed out, the rest had a choice to stay.

The IDF and paramilitary groups were massacring civilians (e.g. al-Dawayima). That's not a choice.

OneGuy: First you say that ethnically the Jews and Arabs are the same and then you accuse the Jews of "ethnic cleansing" by forcing the militants out who happen to be Arabs. You can't have it both ways.

Arabic is a culture as well as a ethnicity. Palestinians are culturally Arabic even though they are more closely related by patrilineal descent to Jews than to most Arabs. And, yes, brother can attack brother (e.g. Cain and Abel). There's no contradiction there.

OneGuy: if a group of people are going to kill you and it is a simple choice of kill them first or be killed does it really matter what either parties ethnicity is?

Keep in mind that the Jews were largely from other countries that had moved into Israel. If someone tries to occupy your land, certainly you have a right to resist. Then, those you see as occupiers will inevitably claim self-defense.

OneGuy: I can guarantee that anytime someone uses that phrase "ethnic cleansing" they are merely showing their hatred of the surviving group

It's the proper term. Ethnic cleansing : the expulsion, imprisonment, or killing of an ethnic minority by a dominant majority in order to .
achieve ethnic homogeneity

#5.2 Zachriel on 2023-10-10 11:47 (Reply)

If someone tries to occupy your land, certainly you have a right to resist.

What makes it “your” land?

#5.2.1 foxmarks on 2023-10-10 12:17 (Reply)

foxmarks: What makes it “your” land?

Humans build an attachment to their homes, especially after generations. It's where their ancestors lived and died. The stories and beliefs of the people become bound up in the land. Consider how long the Jews kept alive the memory of their homeland. "Next year in Jerusalem!"

#5.2.1.1 Zachriel on 2023-10-10 13:45 (Reply)

I would merely note that Iran had to spend that $6 billion somewhere, and would you rather they do this or have a dozen nukes?

#6 Mark Matis on 2023-10-10 06:42 (Reply)

The Palestinians were the native and majority population of Israel/Palestine. Britain, its colonial master, chose to relocate European Jews there. The natives were not consulted. Of course, violence ensued, and the UN drew up a partition plan that no one on the ground accepted.

The Jews managed to set up an ethno-state, and they now control the whole region from the Jordan to the Mediterranean. They rule over a large, restive Arabic population, and they operate an apartheid state. The current Netanyahu government is the most right-wing government in Israel's history, and it openly supports the ethnic cleansing of Arabs, both Muslims and Christians, from their native land.

Recently, a large Jewish settler mob invaded the al-Aqsa mosque on Temple Mount. Another rampaged through East Jerusalem attacking Muslims and Christians. And yet another invaded the Palestinian town of Huwara, again attacking Palestinians civilians, killing one. In all these events, Israeli police escorted and defended the Jewish mobs.

The tit-for-tat cycle of violence has been going on since 1947. It will not end until some outside force intervenes and suppresses it. So it will not end. The current Israeli government will use the outrages committed by Hamas to ethnically cleanse Gaza, and drive the Arabs into Egypt.

I suggest you read Israel Shahak's "Jewish History and Jewish Religion," and Israel Shahak and Northon Mezvinsky's "Jewish Fundamentalism in Israel."

There are no good guys in this story.

#7 bob sykes on 2023-10-10 09:36 (Reply)

"The Palestinians were the native and majority population of Israel/Palestine."

They were not then and aren't now "Palestinians", that is and always was a lie. They were Arabs who left their home countries and moved into the Jewish homeland.

"Britain, its colonial master, chose to relocate European Jews there."

Almost right, extra points for trying even though your intent was to disparage the Jews. Britain did "allow" the Jews living there to invite Jews from all over the world to come home to the Jewish states the homeland of the Jews from before recorded history. I might add that the invaders you call "Palestinians" had only lived there for about 30 years.

"Of course, violence ensued,"

NO! This all came about because the Arabs you choose to call Palestinians had been committing acts of violence against the Jews. Britain and the UN tried to separate the parties but succeeded in accomplishing little else.

"The Jews managed to set up an ethno-state, and they now control the whole region from the Jordan to the Mediterranean"

YES! IT IS THEIR LAND!!! IT is not the land of the Arabs who came from neighboring states anymore than America is the land of Venezuelans who crossed our borders last night. The land in Question belonged to the Jews before the Pyramids were built and the ancestors of the Arabs in question were herding goats in Syria and Jordan. The Jews SHOULD drive these people out because they will never get along with the jews and will continue their attacks on women and children. I hope Netanyahu forces Syria and Jordan to take them back.

#7.1 OneGuy on 2023-10-10 11:21 (Reply)

OneGuy: They were Arabs who left their home countries and moved into the Jewish homeland.

You are ignoring the genetic evidence cited above. Palestinians are more closely related by patrilineal descent to Jews than to most Arabs. Both groups have deep roots in the region dating to the Neolithic. (Think Abraham.)

#7.2 Zachriel on 2023-10-10 11:50 (Reply)

YES! As are most of the people in the neighboring countries. How does that change the fact that the Jews have lived in these lands including Palestine for 5000-10000 years or more while the Arabs there today came from neighboring states and started a fight with the Jews in their homeland?

#7.2.1 OneGuy on 2023-10-10 19:57 (Reply)

OneGuy: As are most of the people in the neighboring countries.

That makes no sense. It’s almost as if you didn’t read the comment, much less the cited study.

Palestinians and Jews are patrilineally closer than either are to most Arab populations.

OneGuy: How does that change the fact that the Jews have lived in these lands including Palestine for 5000-10000 years or more

As have the Palestinians, who diverged from the Jews in the late Neolithic.

#7.2.2 Zachriel on 2023-10-10 20:50 (Reply)

"As have the Palestinians, who diverged from the Jews in the late Neolithic."

Seriously! This happened in the 1920's. The "Palestinians" were from Syria and Jordan and walked rode across the border into the lands in question. They are Arabs not descendants of Jews from some thousands of years ago. Nothing more, nothing less. This is not a secret. It was documented ad even a lot of it filmed back in the 20's. Your sources suck!

#7.2.2.1 OneGuy on 2023-10-10 21:24 (Reply)

OneGuy: They are Arabs not descendants of Jews from some thousands of years ago.

Your claim is contradicted by the genetic evidence.

#7.2.2.2 Zachriel on 2023-10-10 21:52 (Reply)

There are certainly better and worse guys in the story. The better guys are the Jews and the worse guys are the Palestinians. It isn't remotely a close call either. As evidenced by the fact that the Palestinians who enjoy the most political rights and freedoms and the most prosperity and security are the ones who are Israeli citizens. As evidenced by the fact that Israel goes out of its way to protect both Israeli and Palestinian civilians while Palestinian terrorist go out of the way to maximize the death and injury inflicted upon both groups of civilians.
You are a soulless, morally depraved individual for denying or failing to acknowledge those facts.

#7.3 James on 2023-10-11 19:08 (Reply)

This guy, former intel guy turned journalist consultant did a good video on the origins

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Azs7As3MYFU

This is older, but British journalist Melanie Phillips explains how things came about without sugar coating the British antisemitism that created the problem when they had the Mandate post WWI.

https://youtu.be/OjOgKHw6HY4

#8 JK Brown on 2023-10-10 10:19 (Reply)

There never was a group of Arabs who called themselves 'Palestinians'. There never was any nation that occupied the land of Israel except the Jews. This is an artificial identity created to undercut the Jewish connection to the land of Israel.

For centuries of Mamluk and Arab rule, the mideast was divided like a layer cake into 3 satrapies - one in Damascus, one in Iraq/Jordan, one in Egypt. The land of Israel was a backwater of the Iraqi and Damascus satrapies.

To this day the Arabs of Gaza, West Bank/Jordan, and Syria/Galilee speak different dialects of Arabic.

The word 'Palestinian' was dredged up from history by the British who - having made conflicting promises to Jews and Arabs -cast around for a neutral name that would not betray the Jewish connection to the land.

During the British Mandate the Arabs refused to use the word 'Palestine' at all...

#9 Ben David on 2023-10-10 10:34 (Reply)

Ben David: There never was a group of Arabs who called themselves 'Palestinians'.

Nationalism is a rather modern concept. Germany and Italy, for instance, didn't become nations until the 19th century, Israel not until the 20th. That doesn't mean the Palestinian people don't form a coherent ethnic group, or that they don't have deep roots to the region.

#9.1 Zachriel on 2023-10-10 11:53 (Reply)

But have others have pointed out - they are neither cohesive ethnically (in a culture based on "hamullahs" or extended tribes), nor do they have deep roots in the region - most of them are descended from migrant workers who built railroads for the British and picked oranges in orchards planted by Jews.

The most popular family name in Gaza is "al-Masri" which means "the Egyptian".

That's right Zacky - nationalism is recent, and the false Palestinian nationalism dates to the 1940s.

#9.1.1 Ben David on 2023-10-11 06:48 (Reply)

Ben David: most of them are descended from migrant workers who built railroads for the British and picked oranges in orchards planted by Jews.

Palestinians have traditionally traveled for work. That doesn’t mean they don’t have ancient roots within Palestine/Israel. Genetic evidence indicates that Palestinians share a common paternal ancestry with Jews dating to the late Neolithic, and are closer to one another than either are to most Arab populations.

#9.1.2 Zachriel on 2023-10-11 07:39 (Reply)

I think it's pretty clear who the anti-semite is here. We've known this for a very long time, but it's nice to see that these horrid people finally out themselves willingly.

#10 Bulldog on 2023-10-10 14:11 (Reply)

I have no dog in this fight. I've worked with Israelis and never liked them. I've worked with Arabs and always thought they were dangerous. Where I draw the line is when someone kidnaps and murders the elderly, women, and children (and reportedly beheads infants). Not a new phenomenon in history, but anyone who does that is not the good guy, legitimate resistance or not. Makes the Russian Special Military Operation look pretty tame in comparison though, doesn't it?

#11 RetiredSOF on 2023-10-10 16:11 (Reply)

RetiredSOF: Where I draw the line is when someone kidnaps and murders the elderly, women, and children (and reportedly beheads infants).

There's never a justification for attacking civilians. It's a war crime. It will do nothing except lead to more suffering.

#11.1 Zachriel on 2023-10-10 16:43 (Reply)

Here is a critical point that no one seems to understand. This war was started by Terrorist leaders who live in safe Muslim countries. Those leaders know that everyone in Palestine and Gaze who participated in this attack on Israel is now the walking dead. Everyone of them will be hunted down and killed. Most will die in the next few months but everyone of them will be executed for what they have done. Maybe most of them knew this but I assure you many of the younger men were not told this was a suicide mission. Everyone of them will be executed by Israel as they should be. Those fools taking video of themselves abusing prisoners will be identified and executed. Yes the Jewish prisoners will likely be killed too. Israel will go to great lengths to find them and save them but the terrorists intend to kill them. But everyone on film or otherwise identifiable who participated in the attack on Israel will be put to death. And the leaders sitting in Iran and Qatar knew this when they initiated the war sending these terrorists to certain death. THAT is the kind of leadership you get from Muslim terrorists. They will all get to see Allah soon.

#12 Anon on 2023-10-10 20:06 (Reply)

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Monday, October 9. 2023

Please explain to me