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Sunday, September 10. 2023

When car batteries go dead


It is such a common problem. My 3-year old battery has died twice in the past month. I think it is from inadequate use, but my Triple-A guy told me car batteries are only good for 3-7 years anyway.


He advised taking it for a 100-mile drive, but that's not my plan today.


Interestingly, he was from Morocco so we talked about Marrakesh and the Atlas Mountains. We've been to Marrakesh and have hiked in those mountains. Terrible. I've been to those remote mountain villages, with the Berbers. Wild camels, blue-eyed French-speaking Berbers.


What are your experiences with car batteries? 



Posted by Bird Dog in The Culture, "Culture," Pop Culture and Recreation at 15:12 | Comments (26) | Trackbacks (0)

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My experience is that in most cars you have three components that comprise your battery/charging system and anyone of these can go bad and make it appear to be a different component. And if you include the starter in this calculation a bad starter can oer tax your battery, especially in a city use car, and make it appear that your batter is bad. So, it is worth having them checked out by a reputable shop with the proper equipment to determine what needs replacement. If you simply replace your battery and that is not the problem within a few weeks to months you will again encounter problems. If it is your alternator or regulator (now both are likely to be housed within the alternator) than you wasted money on the battery. Additionally, it is possible that any one of these components going bad may in fact cause a different one of them to fail. So, get it checked out.

And as I implied if you go to a fly by night shop or a dishonest shop it is likely that they will replace the bad and good parts of this system just to make an extra buck.
#1 OneGuy on 2023-09-10 15:37 (Reply)
In east central Florida, three years is about right for lead-acid battery life. The heat gets 'em.
#2 Mark Matis on 2023-09-10 16:04 (Reply)
I generally buy the 36 month warranty batteries but have pretty good luck with them going 5-6 years. More modern vehicles put a constant load on the batteries as the electrical system never shuts totally down. If I am not using a vehicle for several months, I just take a terminal off the battery. Easy to do and will keep the battery from going totally dead. Deeply discharged batteries don't last but half as many cycles as the others.
#3 indyjonesouthere on 2023-09-10 16:15 (Reply)
From having two car batteries go dead I learned that capacity & voltage gets lower after the years and seven years is a fair limit to replace them. A shop can measure the battery capacity (yeah technology) but you have to find a reputable shop that wont just go "replace it". And draining a battery completely can wreck it.
#4 Freddo on 2023-09-10 16:15 (Reply)
Some years ago I had trouble with the battery dying. The local garage replaced the battery cable. After that I had about three weeks before the battery started dying again. I replaced the battery, but the new battery kept dying. One time the battery died in traffic. I pushed the car to the side of the road. I then called the wrecker service my insurance company provides.

The wrecker service guy suggested that I purchase a copper connector for the battery. It cost all of $4. I had no battery problems since then.

Fast forward some years and with a different vehicle I got a P0320 code. Engine dies easily when idling, so the code makes sense. The first thing a P0320 code suggests is to check the battery. Unfortunately, the solution isn't that easy, as the battery is fine.
#5 Gringo on 2023-09-10 17:08 (Reply)
My favorite car is a 1994 Jeep Grand Cherokee. Had numerous problems of all sorts of electrical problems or so we thought. Turns out my relatively new AAA battery was dead and wouldn't hold a charge so when we replaced the battery things have been fine since especially for a car that will be 30 years old next year.
#6 JC on 2023-09-10 17:39 (Reply)
Wow, you got by with a AAA battery? My Jeep required two D cells to keep running!
#6.1 Ed on 2023-09-10 19:22 (Reply)
Before Sears went out of business, I used to have great success with Sears truck batteries. I used to buy a grade below their overpriced Top-O-The-Line models, and would routinely get 8-10 years out of them. The last one went almost 10, and I started getting nervous and replaced it with a Duracell. Duracell sold off their brand name to be squandered and capitalized on, and now its branding is questionable cut-rate junk. I've gotten about 3 years for this one so far, but the V-10's starter motor is not spinning as fast as it ought to, especially when the engine is hot and compression is high.
#7 Aggie on 2023-09-10 18:01 (Reply)
Sears Diehards were, in my opinion, the last really good batteries made. Today Interstate is the best you can get.
#7.1 Dirk (Link) on 2023-09-10 20:16 (Reply)
Just fyi.
Diehards were made by Johnson Controls (Wisconsin). Then sold to, then traded, then sold, et al. Currently AutoZone has the brand so you can still buy the brand (name).
#7.1.1 Cedar on 2023-09-11 08:17 (Reply)
I tend to replace battery every 5 years as preventative maintenance.
Note that the higher the CCA, the more lead plates in the battery, but the battery remains same size, so plates get thinner, and battery itself, more "delicate". Check YouTube for info on keeping your battery alive, and what voltage it should be showing your cheap multimeter ($7 at harbor freight) before you start car in the morning, and with motor running
#8 Riick on 2023-09-10 18:29 (Reply)
"Maintenance Free" means that they'll last about the rate life before the water drops below the top of the plates and the battery goes bad. I'm on my 2nd battery in 11 years, but the original battery I cleaned the terminals and topped off with distilled water about halfway through its life. I didn't challenge the recommendation to replace the original when I was in for service about 3 years ago.

This reminds me, I really need to check my current battery and top off.
#9 JK Brown on 2023-09-10 19:52 (Reply)
You might have your car checked for a parasitic draw. More and more new cars are ending up with modules that won't go to sleep after time. Sometimes it's one that keeps the car network awake with big draw.
#10 JK Brown on 2023-09-10 19:55 (Reply)
They fail with no advance warning.

Unless you know the reason for a battery to have lost it's charge- if it fails to start your car, get a new one. Known reasons I've had- left a dome light on, left a door or trunk lid ajar do the associated light stayed on, things like that.

Oh- you can sometimes have weird electrical problems because of a thin layer of corrosion o the battery terminal connections. I've used my plumbing brushes to clean off the terminals and the terminal clamps- but they do sell battery brushes for doing tha basically the same items rebranded...
#11 Gospace on 2023-09-10 20:06 (Reply)
We can have one hell of a time with some of the newer farm machinery. They will automatically download software updates and sometimes the update runs in a continuous loop until the batteries are run down. With 2 batteries of the size that you find in most tractors and harvesting equipment today that is no small accomplishment. The newer equipment has a battery disconnect to use when the machine is not going to be used for a month or more.
#12 ricefarm (Link) on 2023-09-10 20:22 (Reply)
I think you have a 'parasitic draw' problem. Car batteries should perform better than you describe. 65 years in, and mine always have.
#13 Erasmus on 2023-09-10 20:37 (Reply)
Batteries are chemical storage units. They have a finite number of charge/discharge cycles. The more they are cycled and the more they are fully discharged and then charged the faster they shuffle off this mortal coil.

For reference a fully charged battery should read 12.6 V. 50% charged is 11.5 V and fully discharged is 10.5 V.

Most alternators voltage regulators have a set point of 14.8 V. Alternators are rated at 5000 RPM shaft speed. At idle they are 1/2 their rated output. So your 150 Amp Alternator is 75 amp at idle. And that is measured at 72 degrees temperature. Under the hood in the summer its 140+ degrees which tends to reduce the capacity of the alternator by a fair amount. The rectifiers are typically what fail from the heat with regulators next and then winding shorts third.

Anything built in the last 20+ years has parasitic loads when the vehicle is turned off. These can be upwards of 1/4 amp. In a week or so you might not be able to start it. Tender chargers are suggested for vehicles that aren't being used regularly.

Batteries and alternators have been "downsized" over the last 10 years or so as part of trying to improve gas mileage. This reduces battery life (and alternator life).

Additionally some electrical systems cycle the alternator on/off to try and improve MPG. This puts a lot of "charge/discharge cycles" on the battery again greatly reducing its life.

Look at the negative battery lead and if there is a circular sensor on it (with a couple of wires coming out of it) before it's attached to the chassis your vehicle is more than likely cycling the alternator. Thats going to significantly reduce the battery life. The cynic in me says they have programmed these systems to run the life out of the battery after the vehicle warranty expires.

In any event there isn't any real world data to suggest this scheme improves MPG, but the EPA gives the manufacturer 1/2 MPG CAFE bonus for having them. Same with the engine "auto stop/start" system.

There are exceptions to all of this. Some pickup trucks have dual alternators. One optimized for idle and the other for highway speeds. Diesels typically have two batteries and the biggest alternators made. And there are other variants.

But this should give you a generalized idea whats going on with those systems.

So if you get 3 or 4 years out of a battery in a modern vehicle you are doing great.
#14 Guy with a digital volt meter on 2023-09-10 22:23 (Reply)
Just buy a new one every couple of years before there's a problem - duh! That works out to $7 +/- a month which is cheap P.O.M.
#15 slm on 2023-09-11 00:39 (Reply)
Been fortunate with them so far. I usually opt for the premium battery when I have to replace them and they seem to last the full amount of time. Our climate is generally temperate so that helps.
#16 Alfred (Link) on 2023-09-11 07:54 (Reply)
As recently as the 60's, car batteries only lasted about a year, and then had to be replaced. The first 5 year battery was the Sears Die Hard.

Bias ply tires also only lasted a year, as did spark plugs. Shocks and mufflers were more like an every other or third year proposition.

Fuel injectors began replacing carburetors in the 70's, and the annual or semiannual tune up went away.
#17 bob sykes on 2023-09-11 08:24 (Reply)
re My 3-year old battery has died twice in the past month.

Based on my experience with batteries, change it out. With the New England winter coming this will only get worse.
#18 feeblemind on 2023-09-11 09:40 (Reply)
So many lead-acid batteries are manufactured overseas (e.g. Korea or Japan) now and have to endure long months in transit inside shipping containers on rolling seas. They are filled with acid before shipping, and so the lead plates start to decay immediately. (Maybe because so many batteries now are "sealed?")

This did not used to be. In the past, acid was not added until the point of final sale. So your battery was really new when you bought it. That is no longer true.

I had a lead acid battery in a tractor that I purchased in 2005. The battery finally died in 2022.
My 2014 Subaru battery had to be replaced in 2020.
#19 ruralcounsel on 2023-09-11 11:19 (Reply)
My last car, I bought an Interstate battery on advice of my mechanic. It was 20% more expensive, but he said it had a rock solid 5-year warranty. 4 years in, it went bad (Michigan winters will do that), and no questions asked, it was replaced for free (just had to pay the labor). Well worth it.
#20 Amazed on 2023-09-11 14:43 (Reply)
Up here in the Great White North, winter poses a challenge for vehicles, especially those not snuggly ensconced in heated garages. So most vehicles have a block heater which - when plugged in - keeps the engine fluids at a reasonable temperature so the engine can more easily start. There are also battery blankets which - again have to plug in - warm up the battery sufficiently to help it provide the necessary juice for start-up.
Battery life varies. Let's just put it this way; we have a "trickle charger" to help the battery when it's feeling low.
#21 Frances on 2023-09-11 22:34 (Reply)
My 2013 Rav4 still has its OEM battery -- bought new, used
as second vehicle, has 70k miles, kept in garage. Never once left in summer sun, but is outside in winter usually a total month each year on ski trips. I take it out for 25-50 miles every two weeks. It starts fine at -5f.
#22 NH4KX3 on 2023-09-12 12:50 (Reply)
Seems like the recent lead acid batteries don't tolerate the cold as well as they once did. Feb 2022, I installed a new battery with a 3 yr warranty in my 2005 Toyota that's never parked in the garage and is driven on average a couple days per week. The battery began having trouble keeping a charge last winter and after taking it to the auto parts store numerous times, they finally declared it defective just last week and gave me a replacement.
There were a couple stretches of sub-zero temps last winter when I think the electrolyte probably froze.
Gonna drive the car more often this winter to try to keep that from happening again.
#23 sparkee on 2023-09-17 14:08 (Reply)

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