Maggie's Farm

Dershowitz probably should have waited for the indictment to be released before making his proclamation.


The evidence in the public domain was more than strong enough to support an indictment. However, as we noted previously, the Espionage Act doesn't require the information be classified. Dershowitz should know this.


They did that too. Turns out that obstruction of justice and false statements to the FBI and grand jury are illegal. You know, against the law. Like speeding or espionage.


The indictment includes a lot of new information. They have an audio recording of Trump saying he possessed classified information that he had not declassified, all the while apparently waving it around towards others. They also have texted images showing the boxes spilling out showing classified documents. Nauta (alleged co-conspirator): “I opened the door and found this...” Trump was storing boxes containing classified information in the bathroom, among other places.

Wow. Just wow. Trump is a criminal

    —allegedly.


Yes. Yes, you were.

There's a fairly high margin of error for the Gen Z subset in the poll. There's a 95% chance the true number is between 25% and 33%. Saying a third is a bit of a stretch, but certainly a solid quarter are likely to support the proposition.

eeyore: Surely you are not implying that 1/3 = nearly 1/3?

Depending on the definition of "nearly". The result is just as close to one in four as to one in three. That's why we said it was a "bit of a stretch". Just wanted to point out the relatively high margin of error for the subset.

More relevant to the polling result, about 10% of Americans believe the Earth is flat, and nearly 30% are young Earth creationists (which is a twofer).

eeyore: Liberals and their weasel words.

"Reality has a well known liberal bias.

Let's look at it again. The poll value is about 29% ± 4% (2σ). The poll value is in the middle of the range 25% (1/4) and 33% (1/3). There is a 98% probability that the true value is at least one in four, but only a 16% probability that the value is at least 31. Consequently, we can confidently say that the true value is probably at least one in four, but have much less confidence that the true value is nearly (almost but not quite) one in three.

Why did the author choose to use one in three rather than one in four? Probably because it made the result appear to be more noteworthy. Now, compare to polls that show 10% of Americans believe the world is flat, and 30% who are young Earth creationists.

OneGuy: Imagine you leave an elected office and you tell your aide what to pack up. THAT is conspiracy under federal law.

While Trump almost certainly knew there were classified documents in the boxes he kept, he was indicted because he allegedly "did willfully retain" documents "relating to the national defense" even when it was clear he was aware of their existence. Trump is also alleged to have conspired to obstruct justice with his aide, Waltine Nauta, who was indicted as well.

OneGuy: While Obama almost certainly knew there were classified documents in the boxes he kept.

There is no evidence Obama retained classified documents.

OneGuy: While Biden almost certainly knew there were classified documents in the boxes he kept as a congressman.

There is no evidence Biden knew there were classified documents in the boxes he kept. His own lawyers alerted the National Archives after classified documents were discovered, and then allowed the government to conduct a more thorough search.

OneGuy: While Hillary almost certainly knew there were classified documents in the boxes he kept as Secretary of State.

Again, there is no evidence of that. If you mean to refer to the emails, there is ample evidence that the classified information was leakage, a persistent problem for the government.

On the other hand, we have strong evidence that Trump knew he was retaining documents relating to the national defense, and obstructed efforts of the government to take control of the documents.

John Fisher: The satellite images that were in Hillary's UNCLASSIFIED email

Your description appears to be mixing up several different reports. There were no classified satellite images in Clinton's email. You are probably confusing that with reports that some information gleaned from satellite images may have been transmitted by email.

grant1863: IF

Poor, powerless, minority people tend to fair much worse in the legal system than rich, powerful, white people. But, sometimes, the privileged push the limits too far. Regardless, selective prosecution is not a good legal defense.

indyjonesouthere: Jack Smith, Andrew Weissmann and Lisa Monaco's novel theory--US Code 793 to prosecute Trump, it won't work

The Classified Information Procedures Act details how classified information can be used at trial. See 18a U.S. Code, esp. § 8.


Well, no. The court gives substantial weight to the concerns of national security, but that isn't the same as not exercising any oversight.

Under the Espionage Act, the government has to provide enough evidence to convince a jury that national security secrets are involved. In Trump's case, he was recorded discussing classified war plans, clearly something that is relating to national security.

indyjonesouthere: only in the DC courts could they find the sandwich guilty.

Trump was indicted by a Florida grand jury. In any case, the article was in error.

There is statutory procedure for the use of classified information at trial, which balances the right of the accused to a fair trial and the necessity of protecting national defense secrets. Generally, the procedure helps the defense as the government will often avoid trial and seek a plea deal to avoid disclosure.

indyjonesouthere: The ham sandwich was a "minority.

A federal indictment requires a majority of a grand jury to agree (12 out of 16 to 23 members).

indyjonesouthere: Grand juries are good for media trials and their headlines.

They're good for an indictment. The person still has the presumption of innocence.

OneGuy: It is exactly the same when they accuse the J6 protestors of being insurrectionists.

In fact, some of the rioters were convicted of seditious conspiracy.

OneGuy: don't make any waves or else!

Well, don't conspire to use violence to stop the certification of the Electoral College.

OneGuy: The strategic petroleum reserve was just one of the more obvious indicators . . . If it were true... what would they be doing different?

Sell high ($95). Buy low ($73).