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Thursday, December 22. 2022

What's with Ukraine?

Why is the US at war with Russia? I know it is a proxy war of sorts, but the US has no treaty or alliance with Ukraine. Why Ukraine? 


Tucker asks the questions:



Posted by The News Junkie in Hot News & Misc. Short Subjects at 15:53 | Comments (18) | Trackbacks (0)

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I think Ukraine is 100% correct to defend themselves. But it is just crazy that our congress is going overboard sending them money.
#1 OneGuy on 2022-12-22 16:43 (Reply)
Why Ukraine? That's where they launder their dirty money.
#2 Jerryskids on 2022-12-22 17:07 (Reply)
Ukraine gave up their nuclear weapons in 1993 at the behest of the USA, keeping the former Soviet arsenal isolated to the Russian Federation instead of spread across Ukraine and possibly Kazakhstan. There were some Western security guarantees involved such that Ukraine's future sovereignty would be assured.

Do we say "just kidding, guys" when Russia once again for not the first time in its history uses aggression against Ukraine? How many other countries would be running for alliances with China or Russia or breaking out their own nuclear capabilities when they see what those assurances were worth?

This was a war of choice by Russia as part of a larger realignment of their security perimeters deep into Europe. Moldova, Estonia, Serbia, and Hungary/Romania next, if they prevailed in Ukraine. All the while giving China more opportunities against a weakened West.

Ukraine wants to fight for their survival, the West can provide weapons and resources in that fight, thereby reducing Russia's conventional military might. Russia might go nuclear, you say? Their nuclear capabilities exist and are available for them to threaten whether or not there is Western supply of the Ukraine resistance.

Better we degrade them at the Dnieper than at the Elbe.

It would be preferable if we did not have to be involved, but the Russian Empire being taken down a notch is worth the distasteful present.
#3 Collins on 2022-12-22 17:58 (Reply)
It's worth noting that Ukraine had already agreed to give up the nuclear weapons before the Budapest Memorandum was signed, the Lisbon Protocols in 1992 assured Ukraine would be an NPT nation.

The Budapest Memorandum was really just the West glomming on top of that because Yeltsin was a puppet.

I agree this was a war of "choice" but it was a Hobson's Choice which was stage managed by the West.
#3.1 Bulldog on 2022-12-22 18:37 (Reply)
Bullsh*t. This is a globalist power grab by Eurotrash imbeciles and DC morons in the State Dept.. They pushed NATO to Russia's border, overthrew an elected govt. in 2014. Ukraine is a third rate sh*thole leading the developed world in corruption and sex trafficking.
You could take that 100 billion in lethal aid to Ukraine and give every damn American family several thousand dollars to weather the inflationary storm these idiots in DC have caused with their ruinous economic policies.
#3.2 Trangbang68 (Link) on 2022-12-23 17:09 (Reply)
Correct, and both the UK, USA, and Russia signed those treaties, ensuring Ukraine remain independent.

THAT mandates the USA and UK provide military assistance to Ukraine if and when Ukraine is invaded by a foreign power.
Russia has the same mandate, but as usual with Moscow they signed the treaty with the intent to break it.

Tucker as usual doesn't know what he's talking about.
#3.3 JTW on 2022-12-26 23:49 (Reply)
Technically the US does have a treaty with Ukraine. In 1994, the UK, the US and Russia signed the Budapest Memorandum in which the UK and US agreed to provide security for Ukraine in the event of a Russian attack, and Russia agreed to not attack.

Technically, as well, neither side has lived up to that bargain - but it does exist.

Currently, depending on who you listen to, the Budapest Memorandum either paved the road for the Russian invasion by providing the US and the West the cover it needed to provoke Russia into the invasion (my POV). Or it is the roadblock to peace negotiations until Russia agrees to live up to its terms.
#4 Bulldog on 2022-12-22 18:33 (Reply)
Bulldog, with all due respect, you are far off base with the POV that the West had any intent to provoke Russia into the invasion. Some factions may wish to exploit the situation (Nuland and others in the govt, Applebaum in the press), but the biggest provocation was probably Biden's bungled Afghanistan departure and general weakness and corruption. Putin saw a propitious time to pursue his own intentions.

Kamil Galeev is a Tatar dissident who explains Russian thinking on Twitter. Other people link to Russian media where the most outrageous threats against former East Bloc countries and the UK as well as Ukraine are beamed to the Russian people daily. Russian imperialism has a long and deep tradition over centuries, long before there was a NATO and US to play off against.

I'm well aware of the deep corruption in Ukraine and how our political class has enriched themselves over the last thirty years, but some things that happen in this world aren't because of our internal political factions and disputes. China and Russia have long histories and their own agendas today where US actions are not central to their ambitions. We are only one factor of many.
#4.1 Ben Quinn on 2022-12-22 19:00 (Reply)
Bulldog: In 1994, the UK, the US and Russia signed the Budapest Memorandum in which the UK and US agreed to provide security for Ukraine in the event of a Russian attack, and Russia agreed to not attack.

The Budapest Memorandum did not promise security intervention in the event of aggression against Ukraine’s sovereignty. Rather, the signatories (U.K., Russia, U.S.) each agreed to “respect the independence and sovereignty and the existing borders of Ukraine”. The only action promised in the event of aggression against Ukraine was to seek emergency United Nations Security Council assistance for Ukraine. Oh, and that the signatories and Ukraine will consult if a situation arises concerning these commitments. Russia broke the agreement.

The U.S. and U.K. have more than met their obligations under the Memorandum.
#4.2 Zachriel on 2022-12-22 21:02 (Reply)
Ukraine is the most corrupt shithole on earth. This accelerated when corrupt American Jews overthrew their legitimate government and installed other corrupt jews for the purpose of laundering money and to threaten Russia (who jews despise because their fellow corrupt jews were stopped from robbing the Russian people blind). It really is that simple. There are a handful of scum getting rich off of this crime being committed by the retarded and evil government of the United States, but the biggest casualty is the Ukrainians. Now, of course, the jews of Ukraine have been evacuated by their jew government while everyone left is being kidnapped and forced to fight in this bullshit war.
#5 ccoffer on 2022-12-22 19:21 (Reply)
Someone sure woke up very cranky this morning.
#5.1 JJM on 2022-12-22 20:21 (Reply)
Yeah. I oppose filthy warmongers murdering women and children for money. Makes me "cranky".
#5.1.1 ccoffer on 2022-12-22 21:06 (Reply)
Nah. Your silly anti-Semitic ranting just makes you a crank.
#5.1.1.1 JJM on 2022-12-23 08:34 (Reply)
The News Junkie: Why is the US at war with Russia?

Just let the Chancellor have the Sudetenland. That should settle everything. He seems nice.
#6 Zachriel on 2022-12-22 21:06 (Reply)
Can't ignore the fact that the neo-con ranks are full of old Trotskyites who still hold a grudge against the Russians. Our current Sec State's family are Ukrainian Jews who fled when Trotsky was run out of Russia.

What they have done is merged neo-con hatred of Russia with the limitless corruption of the Washington ruling class.
#7 NJSoldier on 2022-12-23 09:05 (Reply)
I continue to react to Ukraine as a sort of do-over for the disastrous abandonment of Eastern Europe after WWII. The shame of Hungary and Czechoslovakia is hard to forget. I didn't want to see another country overrun by totalitarian Russian bullies.

I can't claim that this impulse resolves all the legitimate questions people have about corruption in either Kiev or D.C., only that you can have a soft spot for Ukrainian defense without approving of the Biden crime family.
#8 Texan99 on 2022-12-23 12:22 (Reply)
GHW Bush made a deal in 1990 for the reunification of Germany and the US immediately started backtracking and looking for a way out of the deal after they got what they wanted.

https://wwwlatimes.com/opinion/op-ed/la-oe-shifrinson-russia-us-nato-deal-20160530-snap-story.html

Trump was right about the usefulness of NATO. It has been a tool to do nothing more than stir up shit. The uniparty, state department, and CIA created this mess for power and control and expanded it to 10% for the big guy. Biden, Kerry, Pelosi, and Romney all have kids playing the grifter game in the Ukraine. Not a lick of shame observed on any of the scoundrels. Just rated as another conspiracy theory.
#9 indyjonesouthere on 2022-12-23 18:15 (Reply)
Tucker is right to ask questions. It just seems that he doesn't listen to answers and then wants credit for asking the same questions again, without even acknowledging other possibilities.

Used to be a fan. No more.
#10 Assistant Village Idiot on 2022-12-26 18:51 (Reply)

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