Tucker's take on the war in Ukraine

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Sunday, September 25. 2022

Tucker's take on the war in Ukraine

I tend to agree with Tucker. Where did all the Hawks come from? Sure, it's an American proxy war against Russia. But for what purpose?

Posted by The News Junkie in Hot News & Misc. Short Subjects at 12:22 | Comments (27) | Trackbacks (0)

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QUOTE:

McDougal v. Fox News: This “general tenor” of the show should then inform a viewer that he is not “stating actual facts” about the topics he discusses and is instead engaging in “exaggeration” and “non-literal commentary.” . . . Fox persuasively argues, that given Mr. Carlson’s reputation, any reasonable viewer “arrive{s} with an appropriate amount of skepticism” about the statements he makes.

The News Junkie: Sure, it's an American proxy war against Russia. But for what purpose?

The basis for the stability of the international system is that borders established after the scourge of the world wars can only be changed through peaceful means, that wars of aggression are crimes against the international community of nations. Furthermore, Russia had specifically promised in the Budapest Memorandum, in exchange for Urkaine giving up their nuclear weapons, not to infringe on Ukraine's borders.

#1 Zachriel on 2022-09-25 12:50 (Reply)

you forgot the disclaimer on that: "Terms and conditions may apply. Offer not valid in Middle East, Eastern Europe, Africa, Asia, South America. Elections may be voided if the wrong result has been achieved. Different standards may be applied as deemed appropriate."

#1.1 Freddo on 2022-09-25 12:58 (Reply)

Re Z's comment, so it's the US job to maintain all current national boundaries forever?

Taiwan too?

#1.1.1 BD on 2022-09-25 14:40 (Reply)

Freddo: Different standards may be applied as deemed appropriate.

International law is far from ideal. You could try to provide a specific for discussion.

BD: so it's the US job to maintain all current national boundaries forever?

It's the responsibility of all nations, including Russia, whose people suffered as much as anyone in the world wars.

BD: Taiwan too?

The world recognizes only one China. However, the disputes between Taiwan and the Chinese mainland government should be settled through negotiation not war.

#1.1.2 Zachriel on 2022-09-25 15:22 (Reply)

Sure: lets take the American presence in Syria, and Ukraines failure to abide by the Minsk accord.

#1.1.2.1 Freddo on 2022-09-25 16:54 (Reply)

Your examples show the point.

Freddo: lets take the American presence in Syria

The U.S. had legitimate security interests due to the international terrorism taking advantage of the chaos due to the breakdown of security there.

Freddo: and Ukraines failure to abide by the Minsk accord.

Russia denies it, but they repeatedly violated Ukrainian sovereignty, then refused to rein in pro-Russian separatists and enforce the agreement, insisting they weren’t a party to the agreement, even though they helped negotiate it.

Keep in mind that all along Russia insisted they didn’t have troops in Ukraine, though the evidence was patent. They knew it would violate international law, like the mob pretending they were not breaking the law.

Then, they overtly invaded Ukraine, thinking they could get away with it. But the Ukrainians thought otherwise, and won the support of the West.

#1.1.2.2 Zachriel on 2022-09-25 19:14 (Reply)

Ah, Syria is about a largely theoretical, but still extremely legitimate American security interest. Well in that case an open-ended military occupation plus diversion of Syrias oil reserves is certainly justified; clearly no declaration of war or other declaration or even support by the United Nations needed.

Perhaps if Putin can indicate that Russia has some legitimate security concern in the Donbass then we can all agree that is current limited operation is very viable under international law. I think we should even given Putin the benefit of the doubt there, as he is willing to hold a referendum on whether the Donbass should be part of Russia, while the Syrians do not get a vote on their political indepence from American occupation.

#1.1.2.2.1 Freddo on 2022-09-26 06:53 (Reply)

Freddo: Well in that case an open-ended military occupation plus diversion of Syrias oil reserves is certainly justified;

That doesn't follow. International terrorists were, in fact, working in the shadows during the breakdown of security in Syria.

Freddo: Perhaps if Putin can indicate that Russia has some legitimate security concern in the Donbass then we can all agree that is current limited operation is very viable under international law.

They did so in order to give the appearance of legality, but falsely. Russia was the instigator.

#1.1.2.2.2 Zachriel on 2022-09-26 09:10 (Reply)

The Republics had declared independence after Victoria Nuland's coup in 2014.
Russia signed a defense treaty and came to their aid after 8 years of attacks from the illegal Ukraine government and 14,000 civilian deaths.

#1.2 bilejones on 2022-09-25 18:59 (Reply)

bilesjones: The Republics had declared independence

Satellite imagery, as well as smartphone footage from on the ground, shows that the Russians had sent troops into Ukraine. But, thanks for amplifying Russian propaganda. It’s working out really well for the Russian and Ukrainian people.

#1.2.1 Zachriel on 2022-09-25 19:35 (Reply)

Rather conveniently (((QUIBBLE-DICKZ))) overlook the enormous financial interests of the Bidens, the Kerrys, and the Pelosis with the current Ukraine government..

#1.2.1.1 Zachinoff on 2022-09-25 22:04 (Reply)

off topic:

Dilbert gets canceled as the comic’s creator Scott Adams takes on woke ESG business ratings

https://notthebee.com/article/dilbert-gets-canceled-as-the-comics-creator-scott-adams-takes-on-the-woke-esg-business-ratings

#2 feeblemind on 2022-09-25 13:08 (Reply)

I'm generally in agreement with Carlson but on the war in Ukraine I think he has it wrong. The leader of one country does not get to wage war without just cause. While Ukraine's leadership may not be pure as the driven snow Ukraine is a sovereign country, regardless of how Putin prefers to read history. To the extent it's a proxy war, as long as Putin is in power our policy ought to be to weaken Russia as much as possible. If it leads to Putin's ouster that's great. If not, at least Russia is weaker.

#3 Pete on 2022-09-25 13:29 (Reply)

Correct. And the US (and the rest of NATO) provided Ukraine with security guarantees against just the Russian invasion that happened.
Guarantees they are now unwilling to openly admit to and act on (which is understandable, as a global war would ensue, but it remains a shitty move against Ukraine).

Should those security guarantees have been issued? Probably not, but it seemed like a good idea at the time to get Ukraine to give up its nuclear weapons so here we are.

And where we are now is a place where if we abandon Ukraine now NATO has already been so weakened that the Baltic states will fall quickly, officially triggering article 5 in a way that none of the NATO members can ignore, which can only lead to a nuclear exchange.

#3.1 JTW on 2022-09-25 22:38 (Reply)

JTW: And the US (and the rest of NATO) provided Ukraine with security guarantees against just the Russian invasion that happened.

In the Budapest Memorandum, the Russian Federation, the United Kingdom, and the United States agreed to respect Ukraine's sovereignty. They did not agree to intervene militarily if Ukraine was attacked. Russia broke the agreement. The United States fulfilled its obligations by taking the issue to the United Nations Security Council, then went further by, along with its allies, providing military and non-military aid to the Ukrainians.

#3.1.1 Zachriel on 2022-09-26 09:27 (Reply)

When the Russians invaded on 24 February and attempted a coup de main directed at Kyiv itself in order to overthrow the Ukrainian government, the situation changed completely. It was no longer a simmering but largely fixed conflict over secessionist portions of Ukraine but a wider fight for the country's very existence and sovereignty.

The key problem is that, post-24 February, the current political leadership in the West suddenly looks very much like yesterday's men, as it were. It's as if Churchill never took the helm in 1940 but Chamberlain and the Baldwinites remained in power, still wedded to political notions overtaken by wider events.

As Lincoln said in 1862:

"The dogmas of the quiet past, are inadequate to the stormy present. The occasion is piled high with difficulty, and we must rise with the occasion. As our case is new, so we must think anew, and act anew. We must disenthrall ourselves..."

#3.2 JJM on 2022-09-26 11:49 (Reply)

The Unz Review
The situation in the Ukraine is an historical event of immense magnitude..... Andrew Anglin September 24,2022

"The same people in the government and the media who tried to force-vaccinate me and my family, the people who are pushing homosexuality and genital mutilation on little kids in my community, are at war with Russia."

#4 indyjonesouthere on 2022-09-25 13:44 (Reply)

I've never been sure just how much of Tucker's talk to believe he believes, he's a talking head that has found a niche to exploit, but I trust him more than just about any politician you'd care to name. There's always an ulterior motive, generally involving money or power or votes, to everything they say or do and you are safer presuming they are lying every time their lips move than to believe anything they say. As far as Ukraine goes, it's all propaganda on all sides and all Joe Biden's talk about "democracy" is so much dog squeeze. That moron doesn't give a fig for "democracy" and wouldn't recognize it if it fell out of his hat.

#5 Jerryskids on 2022-09-25 13:56 (Reply)

I dunno! Ask the people in Poland and Denmark and other border countries. I think they see this as Russia rising. Is it worth providing the Ukrainians with arms to defend their country? Absolutely. Should we provide them with weapons that can threaten Russian territory? No. Should we send advisors or other feet on the ground aid. No. BUT Ukraine should be able to fight the invasion and it is in the interest of Eastern and Northern Europe to help Ukraine.

#6 OneGuy on 2022-09-25 16:11 (Reply)

I am pretty sure that the Russian invasion of the Ukraine was an effort to get control of the gas, oil, and coal reserves in the Donbas and around Crimea. That would secure Russia's monopoly on European fuels. Europe knows what is next.

Much of Eastern Europe has been under Russian/Soviet domination before and the bodies with bullet holes in the head found near Izium makes it clear that nothing has changed since the Katyn Forest. The Ukrainians have the Russians off balance, so, nows the time to fight. Better in the Ukraine than in France and/or Germany. Russia made their intent clear.

Putin had no faith in the ability of Russia to grow in strength, he just didn't realize how bad the situation already was. No one is interested in giving Tsar Putin time to fix the problems before he comes to trash Europe. Better deal with the Russian problem now. The Muscovites have one way of relating to the world, it is what they learned from the Mongols.

#7 Mike-SMO on 2022-09-26 00:52 (Reply)

#8 Mike-SMO on 2022-09-26 00:54 (Reply)

This is an area where I seem to part company with many conservatives. I can't bring anything to the discussion, though, that's much more than my gut feeling that Ukraine should not have been abandoned to Russia's depredations. It's a lot of money, and yet it seems like the least wasteful thing in the federal budget lately. Once Ukraine credibly stood up for itself, it seemed right to me to help it defend itself.

#9 Texan99 on 2022-09-26 08:54 (Reply)

"Where did all the Hawks come from?"

The Kagan family.

#10 bilejones on 2022-09-26 09:03 (Reply)

Yep. Victoria Nuland is one.

#10.1 Rs on 2022-09-26 19:04 (Reply)

Russia was provoked by the usual open border globalist suspects. This war should have been prevented if we did not live in an occupied country with leaders who hate us.

#11 Robert Moffett (Link) on 2022-09-26 11:54 (Reply)

I respect Tucker but when he gets t the Ukraine I sometimes get an odd feeling. He is entitled to his position and beliefs but not the facts.

He trots out the same experts that gave us Afghanistan, Syria, the Balkans, Iraq and Somalia not to mention Vietnam. These people told us that the Ukraine would collapse after a week. Seen these clowns in El Salvador when at one country team meeting one such expert said he couldn't understand the Salvadoran's request for helicopter gunships (this after the Gs destroyed half of their air force on the ground). It was the kind of expert who refused to prepare the embassy for exacuation despite the Iranians attempts to take the Faw peninsula and the obvious strain on the Iraqi army.

Russia is sure to win, that's why it threatens the use of nuclear weapons. Its massive superiority is crushing the Ukes, that's why Putin needs to call up 300,000 reservists. Although Russia doesn't have a national guard nor reserve program that we have in the US and hasn't had in 15 years or so.

Tucker's military experts must all be gender studies majors. Their expertise is obvious.

#12 Betty on 2022-09-26 21:12 (Reply)

Ask yourself, what would Ronald Reagan do? I'm sure he would not allow the growth of a country's power from waging aggressive war of territorial conquest and genocide.

On the other hand, Europe is a declining civilization and weak from their own choices.

As much as I respect Carlson, I have to part company with him here. Much conservative commentary is also short-sighted too. I hate to say it, but the Biden Administration is, now that the war is on, doing a decent job of it. Of course, it never would have started under Trump.

#13 Whitehall on 2022-09-27 05:45 (Reply)

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Sunday, September 25. 2022

Tucker's take on the war in Ukraine