Monday morning links

Why Does the Left Have Such a Difficult Time With the Concept of 'Free Speech'? . . .

Why suppress a viewpoint because it might hurt someone’s feelings or is repulsively racist or anti-Semitic? Just because it’s published doesn’t mean you have to read it. That’s freedom of speech too — the freedom to ignore the kooks, the crazies, the haters, and all the internet wild people who have created such a toxic place for people to gather. Is it really so hard to tune these loons out?

Well, it turns out that it IS hard to tune out abuse on public social media. Between penis enlargement ads, racist and misogynistic bullying, and porn, unregulated social media is unusable. Unregulated social media drives out free speech, drowning it in spam or forcing speakers out through bullying.

#1 Zachriel on 2022-05-02 08:20 (Reply)

Unusable? So what. These are businesses. You don't like the product, then don't use it. I have never used any social media. Big time-waster.

#1.1 Bird Dog on 2022-05-02 08:27 (Reply)

Bird Dog: These are businesses.

That's right. Hence, social media companies regulate their spaces to make an environment conducive for their users and advertisers. That social media companies regulate their spaces is not an intrinsic threat to free speech—despite some of the claims in the original post. Indeed, the power to regulate your space is a fundamental pillar of free speech.

The problem comes from the massive size of some social media companies, and whether they constitute effective monopolies. However, the political right has spent decades weakening anti-trust enforcement. Even now, many on the political right denigrate and attack anyone who attempts to consider effective regulation.

Bird Dog: I have never used any social media.

That's fine, but social media is a powerful tool of communications and exerts a strong influence on culture and politics.

#1.1.1 Zachriel on 2022-05-02 08:41 (Reply)

QUOTE:

There’s a bigger problem here about how we’re going to control the channels of communications in this country.

-some power hungry, authoritarian lefty, but I think it is David Zurawik

[quote] social media is a powerful tool of communications and exerts a strong influence on culture and politics.[/qoute] -Z

Which is why the authoritarian left, is so desperate to control it and what is said, seen and heard. The left can not afford to have their pronouncements undermined with rational debate. When 90% of what you sell is a lie, a strong debate is the last thing you want.

Looking at the history of tyranny in the 20th century, every single regime had something in common. They all had ministries of truth.

You say you reject communism, but you vigorously defend all of its tenets. Sad.

#1.1.1.1 B. Hammer on 2022-05-02 12:02 (Reply)

B. Hammer: Which is why the authoritarian left, is so desperate to control it and what is said, seen and heard.

Which is why the authoritarian right is so desperate to control it and what is said, seen and heard.

{From above:} Social media companies regulate their spaces to make an environment conducive for their users and advertisers. That social media companies regulate their spaces is not an intrinsic threat to free speech—despite some of the claims in the original post. Indeed, the power to regulate your space is a fundamental pillar of free speech.

The problem comes from the massive size of some social media companies, and whether they constitute effective monopolies. However, the political right has spent decades weakening anti-trust enforcement. Even now, many on the political right denigrate and attack anyone who attempts to consider effective regulation.

B. Hammer: You say you reject communism, but you vigorously defend all of its tenets.

At no point have we defended the tenets of communism.

#1.1.1.1.1 Zachriel on 2022-05-02 12:29 (Reply)

How many logical fallacies did you commit, by changing one word and just repeating what I wrote? The authoritarian right? I'll be laughing about that all day long.

Quick, name ten public people from the authoritarian right?

Note that you didn't say free markets. You want heavily regulated markets, using the controlling hand of Big Centralized Government. Private property, except when an authoritarian like Elon Musk (hahahahaa) wants to purchase it.

#1.1.1.1.1.1 B. Hammer on 2022-05-02 13:35 (Reply)

B. Hammer: How many logical fallacies did you commit, by changing one word and just repeating what I wrote?

None.

B. Hammer: The authoritarian right?

About 26% of the American people qualify as right-wing authoritarian.
https://morningconsult.com/2021/06/28/global-right-wing-authoritarian-test/

B. Hammer: Quick, name ten public people from the authoritarian right?

https://www.justice.gov/usao-dc/capitol-breach-cases

B. Hammer: Note that you didn't say free markets.

Markets must have a high degree of freedom to be effective (though no freedom is absolute). For instance, government provides courts for the resolution of disputes. Nor are property rights absolute. For instance, real estate can be subject to zoning and taxation.

Most modern economies are mixed, that is, there are robust markets in most sectors, but some sectors may have heavy government involvement, such as military, police, social security, and healthcare.

#1.1.1.1.1.1.1 Zachriel on 2022-05-02 14:04 (Reply)

Behold the power of Unsubscribe.

#1.2 Mike Anderson (Link) on 2022-05-02 08:41 (Reply)

Mike Anderson: Behold the power of Unsubscribe.

Precisely. People who don't like being flooded with spam and abuse leave (most people). That's not free speech.

#1.2.1 Zachriel on 2022-05-02 08:51 (Reply)

(((Quibble-DickZ))): That's not free speech.

Oh really? Guess the (((Quibble-DickZ))) get to define what is and what isn’t free speech.

#1.2.1.1 Zachinoff on 2022-05-02 10:20 (Reply)

But don’t you dare call them communists.

#1.2.1.1.1 B. Hammer on 2022-05-02 11:47 (Reply)

B. Hammer: But don’t you dare call them communists.

Our position—which we would be happy to support—is that markets are the engine of prosperity and innovation, while private property is a bulwark of liberty. Feel free to square that with the definition of communism.

#1.2.1.1.1.1 Zachriel on 2022-05-02 12:40 (Reply)

You support build back better...it is NONE of those things. It is government overreach and when that doesn't work it is mandates. You will own nothing and you will be happy.

#1.2.1.1.1.1.1 indyjonesouthere on 2022-05-02 14:03 (Reply)

indyjonesouthere: You support build back better...it is NONE of those things.

Build Back Better is not communism, nor does it end private property.

#1.2.1.1.1.1.1.1 Zachriel on 2022-05-02 14:07 (Reply)

I requested you get ahold of Klaus Schwab the other day. Evidently you didn't or you wouldn't regurgitate that BS.

#1.2.1.1.1.1.1.1.1 indyjonesouthere on 2022-05-02 14:13 (Reply)

indyjonesouthere: I requested you get ahold of Klaus Schwab the other day.

You said "Klaus," as if waving a name around is an argument. In what way is Build Back Better communism?

#1.2.1.1.1.1.1.1.1.1 Zachriel on 2022-05-02 14:25 (Reply)

You will own nothing and be happy. global government. You really must keep up with Klaus and his build back better.

#1.2.1.1.1.1.1.1.1.1.1 indyjonesouthere on 2022-05-02 14:30 (Reply)

indyjonesouthere: You will own nothing and be happy.

Okay. Let us know if you decide to make a coherent argument.

#1.2.1.1.1.1.1.1.1.1.1.1 Zachriel on 2022-05-02 14:34 (Reply)

You really must keep up with the Klaus fan club. Trudeau and Macron joined his build back better club. You will own nothing and be happy is the cornerstone of Klaus and company. Sounds just like Stalin and Mao doesn't it. And he wants to throw in global government to help it along. Build back better has been rejected here and Biden admits it. You and the Borg have to get with the program. Do you need new programming?

#1.2.1.1.1.1.1.1.1.1.1.1.1 indyjonesouthere on 2022-05-02 14:41 (Reply)

As usual, your points are disingenuous. Any company has the right to accept the type of ads it will run and as for bullying of whatever type or other "offensive" posts, Republicans have had to put up with being called everything from fascist to racist to white supremacist on national TV, magazines and newspapers, and social media yet there is no attempt to censor that - from Republicans or the editors of those organs - so cry me a river.

But the real issue is that political and social speech is being censored. From Libs of Tik Tok to anybody questioning the integrity of the 2020 election to anybody questioning the efficacy of the Wuhan flu vaccines to one of the oldest newspapers in the country posting about the actual contents of the president's son's laptop, all of them and more are summarily kicked off social media. It didn't matter if their posts were reasonable opinions of experts in their field or if the posts were documented truth, they were inconvenient to the left and/or the current administration.

#1.3 mudbug on 2022-05-02 13:29 (Reply)

mudbug: Any company has the right to accept the type of ads it will run and as for bullying of whatever type or other "offensive" posts . . .

Companies have the right to accept or not accept ads, and accept or not accept offensive posts, within the law.

mudbug: But the real issue is that political and social speech is being censored.

Sure. But you have to start with the basis that forums must have some sort of mechanism for deciding which posts to accept and which posts to amplify. You can't just say, as did Musk, that anything legal should be okay. As has been seen repeatedly, porn and abuse will overwhelm any such forum.

So, then the problem is where to draw the line. When is speech abuse? When is it dangerous? When does it scare away users and advertisers?

mudbug: to anybody questioning the integrity of the 2020 election

Turns out that social media was critical to organizing the J6 riots. That becomes an issue for a business trying to sell ads when they are being used as a conduit for violent insurrection.

mudbug: to anybody questioning the efficacy of the Wuhan flu vaccines

There's a lot of vaccine skepticism on social media.

mudbug: if the posts were documented truth

Conspiracy theories concerning the election and COVID were not truth.

#1.3.1 Zachriel on 2022-05-02 14:23 (Reply)

Let's be honest here, what you call "bullying" is just you and your (((type))) getting exposed for lying. You hate that and do everything you can to silence the truth.

#1.4 DrTorch (Link) on 2022-05-02 17:10 (Reply)

Canceling student debt??
make the colleges eat it, not the taxpayers, not the banks.
Harvard has a $40billion trust fund, that'll cover a lot of student debt. Put them in the poorhouse, not taxpayers.

#2 nunnya bidnez jr on 2022-05-02 09:10 (Reply)

nunnya bidnez jr: Canceling student debt??

A lot of countries offer free college to qualified students, sometimes even for international students.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Free_education

#2.1 Zachriel on 2022-05-02 09:25 (Reply)

Indeed, and several times over the years I've suggested here that people eligible for "citizenship by descent" from any EU country take advantage of it, as it gives access to many great universities with free or nominal tuition for EU citizens. In Scandinavia and the Baltics many business and engineering programs are taught in English, so you don't even need fluency in the local language.

As I was studying in an EU university at a time when that country's centre-left government decided to introduce tuition fees (up to US$53,700/yr for internationals), I'm familiar with the arguments for and against free university tuition:
For: Having a more educated populace benefits society as a whole, as businesses are run more efficiently, people are healthier, more beneficial inventions are made, etc. There is a fiscal multiplier, the investment pays back.
Against: We've studied the fiscal multiplier, it is negative. The costs are borne by all taxpayers, but the benefits accrue mostly to those who are already in positions of economic advantage. It is net regressive in effect.

#2.1.1 Douglas2 on 2022-05-02 09:56 (Reply)

"free college"
So if it's free that means none of the professors, nor the support staff and janitors, get paid? There's no way it could be "free" if those people have to get paid. It's just a question of who pays for it, and who benefits from it.
I'm not sure the students are benefiting from it. but the professors are. The taxpayers don't benefit from what the professors are gaining; there's no reason for the general public to be paying for it.

#2.1.2 nunnya bidnez jr on 2022-05-02 10:13 (Reply)

nunnya bidnez jr: There's no way it could be "free" if those people have to get paid. It's just a question of who pays for it, and who benefits from it.

We provided a helpful link with a definition. Can't make you read it.

nunnya bidnez jr: The taxpayers don't benefit from what the professors are gaining; there's no reason for the general public to be paying for it.

A well-educated population with equal opportunity based on ability is a strong foundation for economic prosperity.

#2.1.2.1 Zachriel on 2022-05-02 12:34 (Reply)

STOP USING THE WORD "FREE"
It's not free, I'm paying for it, and I don't like the product they're putting out.

#2.1.2.1.1 nunnya bidnez jr on 2022-05-02 12:37 (Reply)

nunnya bidnez jr: STOP USING THE WORD "FREE"

It's an idiom, like freeway.

nunnya bidnez jr: It's not free, I'm paying for it, and I don't like the product they're putting out.

Don't worry. Higher education is generally not tuition free in the U.S. Only rich countries can afford that. As for product, U.S. universities are among the best in the world, and continue to be a hub for innovation.

#2.1.2.1.1.1 Zachriel on 2022-05-02 12:47 (Reply)

just an idiom?
like parking on the driveway,
or driving on the parkway?

#2.1.2.1.1.1.1 nunnya bidnez jr on 2022-05-02 13:37 (Reply)

(((zachriel))) gets very upset when you catch her in a lie. She tries to deflect, she tries all sorts of rhetorical approaches not to be caught, but in the end she's also not very smart and gets caught and just makes the same mistakes over and over.

#2.1.2.1.1.1.1.1 DrTorch (Link) on 2022-05-02 17:08 (Reply)

No, it's a lie. Like most of your posts.

#2.1.2.1.1.1.2 DrTorch (Link) on 2022-05-02 17:06 (Reply)

So as we can see from the above, the social media issue will quickly become a #1 high-emotional-charge campaign theme, to distract from the rest of the disasters. Least important --> Highest priority.

Student loan debt: $1.75 trillion owed, over 90% to the Federal Government. Average debtor has about $29,000
1. $118 billion presently in school
2. 7.6 million 24 years or younger have $110 billion
3. 14.9 million 25-34 have $500 billion
4. 14.4 million age 35-49 have $622 billion
5. 6.4 million age 50 - 61 have $282 billion
6. 2.4 million over 62 years have $98 billion.
https://www.forbes.com/advisor/student-loans/average-student-loan-statistics/

Doctors and lawyer benefit the most from the suspension of payments, according to the Congressional Budget Office.

Clearly the federal government has made it easy to believe that the debt will be forgiven, if it's letting retirees escape their debt repayment. It wouldn't happen with a home or a car - they would be foreclosed and seized, pronto. There should be a sensible rationalization for interest rate adjustment on predatory loans, and a collection program that treats debtors like tax cheats. There is no way a college graduate should be weaseling out of loan repayment at the expense of more responsible taxpayers that have learned how to delay gratification in their adult life.

On the constant harping about the impending Democrat rout: Shake my head. Shake my damn head. This is the Republican version of Least important --> Highest priority.

#3 Aggie on 2022-05-02 09:18 (Reply)

QUOTE:

The Wall Street Journal’s editorial board (WSJ) recently suggested that the Obama administration pulled off “the biggest accounting fraud in history” with student loans when eliminating the role of private lenders in the federal student lending market.

In 2010, Democrats “nationalized the market to help pay for Obama Care,” WSJ asserted. “The Congressional Budget Office at the time forecast that eliminating private lenders would save taxpayers $58 billion over 10 years. This estimate was pure fantasy, and now we’re seeing how much.”

The WSJ op-ed also highlighted the rising number of severely delinquent student loans since then and blamed the Obama administration for expanding plans in 2012 for new borrowers “to reduce defaults, buy off millennial voters and disguise the cost of its student-loan takeover.”

The editorial board then added: “This may be the biggest accounting fraud in history.”

https://www.wsj.com/articles/the-great-student-loan-scam-11566343674

#3.1 Zachinoff on 2022-05-02 10:35 (Reply)

>Doctors and lawyer benefit the most from the suspension of payments, according to the Congressional Budget Office.

I'd be willing to listen if they limited it to people who dropped out / flunked out / didn't finish for whatever reason. Maybe also partial forgiveness those students who matriculated at the 2-3 schools they've shut down for fraud.

But, as-is, these proposals are manifestly unjust.

#3.2 OldCurmudgeon on 2022-05-02 16:32 (Reply)

Student money. My wife and I hosted two students from "Let's Be Like Sweden!" countries. One was from Sweden. The girls had different opinions -- one now works for a large company; the Swedish student said she intended to get a university degree (free) and then take government money for doing nothing. All her friends were doing just that, she said. Each supported her country's "free" medical care, although the non-Swede said her parents had private insurance, and always had, because they did not want a long wait for medical care. Student loans? No such animal, since both were educated at taxpayer expense. Same thing.

#4 SgtBob (Link) on 2022-05-02 10:15 (Reply)

How the "jack-in-the-box" flaw dooms some Russian tanks

I'm open to being corrected as this is just a layman's understanding but I'm pretty sure this is also true of the Abrams and a number of other Western tanks. At least some of their ammo is in the turret bustle though it's behind blast doors and there are blow-off panels on the bustle roof to vent explosions upwards if the doors are closed (big IF). It's also not uncommon to have a 'ready rack' of partially or completely unprotected rounds in the turret for ease of access. It also seems pretty doubtful that there's much of a difference for the crew between one round and the entire load cooking off. To borrow from The Chieftain, either would seem to be a significant emotional event.

#5 Christopher B on 2022-05-02 10:16 (Reply)

While smaller projectiles might ricochet off at various angles, a shaped-charge is going to burn a hole into wherever it hits, and many of them will burn all the way through the armor unless they are under-sized. With the intense chemical heat involved, anything proximal that is explosive is going to go off, and once it does, the rest of the rounds will too. I've always thought that Tankers pretty much accept that a direct hit means death. I'm also just a layman on this, though.

#5.1 Aggie on 2022-05-02 11:45 (Reply)

War is peace, Taliban is stability.

#6 Texan99 on 2022-05-02 10:47 (Reply)

That should be Joe Biden & Son's new electioneering slogan. It makes as much sense as Joe.

#6.1 indyjonesouthere on 2022-05-02 14:15 (Reply)

Dems hate, Hate, HATE those of us who think for ourselves. I am soooooooooooooooooooooooooooo not bummed for them.

#7 Sam L. on 2022-05-02 15:39 (Reply)

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Monday, May 2. 2022

Monday morning links