Did NATO push Putin into war?

History may not repeat itself, but it surely rhymes! Putin is reacting to feckless American/NATO policy no differently than Hitler reacted to the misguided and humiliating Versailles Treaty.

It doesn't matter. World War II was inevitable, just read Mein Kampf. Meanwhile, the West is already at war with Russia (ditto with China) whether we like it or not. Putin’s recent revanchist diatribes served notice - a veritable panslaviste Mein Kampf!

So, shall we emulate Neville Chamberlain or instead Winston Churchill? That remains our salient existential question.

#1 Shay Gaetz on 2022-03-09 16:46 (Reply)

The US has used NATO as a shield in order to show that we are not acting unilaterally but in concert with other players. The more players the better it looks. Neither the US or NATO had any business in Serbia during the Yugoslav breakup. There was no legitimate legal foundation to get involved but it did work well as a tail wagging the dog for the Clintons. NATO also buried itself into Bush's and Obama's , including Hillarys, middle east "Reformation" that managed to reform nothing and involved attacking Libya just because and moved onto Syria, just because. In each of these cases they managed to step on Russian toes because they could. And the US kept moving NATO into countries bordering Russia because they could. Trump was the only boomer president that looked at NATO as having no real usefulness as the cold was was dead. Unfortunately the other boomer presidents looked at NATO as a great hammer to pound against whoever they wished to focus. It became the tool of choice to move right onto Russia's border and threaten their existence. Would the US like Russia back in Cuba with fully stocked military bases? I suspect the US would like to use NATO to break down, not only Russian internal cohesion, but to move onto China's internal nationalism. The ruling elite oligarchy wants to get their fingers into every nations goodies and reap ever more wealth, power, and control. In short, NATO is just a tool being used to break nationalism and feed on the meat and bones of each country. Karl Rove was right in calling the US an empire. Somehow we lost the ability to mind our own damn business.

#2 indyjonesouthere on 2022-03-09 16:46 (Reply)

Spot On. The Bio-Labs, in Ukraine, some near the Russian border is also an "in your face" move.

#2.1 walt reed on 2022-03-09 18:27 (Reply)

But the bio labs have been there since the Obama administration. If that bothered Putin he would have invaded then.

#2.1.1 JustMe on 2022-03-09 23:09 (Reply)

I think the Wuhan problem has made it clear just how dangerous US funded labs can be. That is new info.

#2.1.1.1 ruralcounsel on 2022-03-12 10:18 (Reply)

Exactly.

Russia was assured of no NATO expansion, and it was a big lie.

As for bio labs, we now know for sure the mischief that US funded biolabs can cause world wide.

Putin did the right thing trying to defend his country. Better this than to wait and make it a much more tragic (World?) war.

#2.1.2 DrTorch (Link) on 2022-03-10 09:51 (Reply)

Agree. This is Russia's Cuban missile crisis, and in Putin's shoes I can only hope I would be as patient as he is being.

I see nothing wrong with Putin declaring a "Monroe doctrine" within the former Soviet Union.

#2.1.2.1 jdgalt1 (Link) on 2022-03-10 10:41 (Reply)

Buy the way I am a paid Russian bot if you can't tell from my ridiculous comments.

#2.1.2.1.1 jdgalt1 on 2022-03-10 11:13 (Reply)

Does it pay well?

#2.1.2.1.1.1 B. Hammer on 2022-03-10 11:45 (Reply)

At the current exchange rate for rubles, probably not very well.

#2.1.2.1.1.1.1 Zachriel on 2022-03-10 12:05 (Reply)

I demand that this lying impersonator be banned.

#2.1.2.1.1.2 jdgalt1 (Link) on 2022-03-11 12:30 (Reply)

"I, for one, welcome our new bot overlords."

#2.1.2.1.1.2.1 Zachriel on 2022-03-11 12:55 (Reply)

indyjonesouthere: Trump was the only boomer president that looked at NATO as having no real usefulness as the cold was was dead.

Putin certainly agrees with Trump. Current events, of course, prove that not to be the case.

JustMe: But the bio labs have been there since the Obama administration.

The biolabs have been in Ukraine since the Soviet era for the production of bioweapons. The U.S. has been involved to help upgrade the biolabs to peaceful purposes.

DrTorch: Russia was assured of no NATO expansion, and it was a big lie.

There is no such formal agreement.

#2.2 Zachriel on 2022-03-10 11:43 (Reply)

Current events show that the democratic party will weaponize any institution they can infiltrate.

#2.2.1 indyjonesouthere on 2022-03-10 15:55 (Reply)

indyjonesouthere: Current events show that the democratic party will weaponize any institution they can infiltrate.

Have no idea how your paranoid theories are relevant to the importance of NATO, especially in light of the Russian invasion of Ukraine.

#2.2.1.1 Zachriel on 2022-03-10 16:20 (Reply)

The dems are like the Borg. And they use any means necessary to fold, spindle, mutilate, or neutralize what they see as an enemy. Does russia, russia, russia ring a bell?

#2.2.1.1.1 indyjonesouthere on 2022-03-10 18:51 (Reply)

Not really. Nato isn't a threat to Russia it is only a threat to Russian expansion. So in that context Nato appeared to be limiting Putin's plans to invade and take over East European countries so he decided to invade the non-NATO countries and take what he can. If NATO/the West rolls over and lets him than after all the non-NATO countries are gobbled up he will invade a NATO country and see what he can get away with.

There is a legitimate point to say that NATO made him act now and that is if NATO didn't exist he would have acted decades ago and all of Eastern Europe would be Russian and he would be threatening Western Europe. So in THAT way NATO did affect Putin's decision. BUT that simply proves that NATO worked.

Putin chose now to invade Ukraine simply and for no other reason than Biden. He rightly concluded that Biden is a useless breather.

#3 OneGuy on 2022-03-09 17:20 (Reply)

You too blithely discount the threat Russia and Russians perceive from NATO, especially one where Ukraine is a member state. Cooler and smarter heads (George Kennan, the architect of containment, Kissinger, John Mearsheimer, et.al. ) have been quite prescient about what NATO expansion would mean to Russia and that the US/NATO has needlessly provoked Russia. (They also noted that efforts to encourage and nurture Ukraine's NATO membership would end badly for Ukrainians.) Ukraine in NATO is a conspicuous non-starter for Russia, yet we not only encouraged that notion, we weren't honest with the Ukrainians that it was both untenable and very risky for them. Further, Russia watched as NATO acted unilaterally to attack Serbia (long very close with Russia) and Libya, which put paid to the notion that NATO is a "defensive alliance." Putin moved on Crimea for a number of reasons, but the timing is instructive, as it came after the US-supported 2014 revolution and regime change there that installed an anti-Russian government. Russia wasn't willing to jeapordize her Black Sea fleet, among other considerations. Few Americans understand much less appreciate how an expanding (and aggressive) NATO is perceived by others, first and foremost, Russia. And here we are.

#3.1 PCB on 2022-03-09 19:44 (Reply)

What threat from NATO? That they might be talked to death? Let's see, Russia invades Ukraine killing tens of thousands and NATO does nothing, zip, nada. Who should be afraid of who??? NATO isn't a threat to Russia. You are being lied to. Russia KNOWS that NATO isn't a threat. THEY are lying to you and the world. Simple as that. Russia wants more territory, and they will do anything and say anything to get it. China too. If you fall for this idea that if you just let them take the countries around them that they will be good after that you are exactly what they are hoping for.

#3.1.1 OneGuy on 2022-03-09 21:33 (Reply)

One might as well ask what threat were Russian missiles in Cuba.

Anyone who believes NATO was NOT a threat to Russia has not paid to how NATO has expanded since 1991. Don't believe our own propaganda about NATO being "defensive." I have yet to see a weapon system that only shoots in one direction.

Does Russia ant some of the territory it lost in the breakup of the Soviet Union? No doubt. That doesn't mean it wants (or could even financially accommodate) many of the old satellites. But when Russian-favoring Ukrainians were being shelled and sniped since 2014 by neo-Nazi Ukrainian groups to the tune of 14,000 dead, it is hard to fault Russia for finally taking action. Particulally when the West is interfering in Ukrainian politics and pushing Ukraine to be more anti-Russian while at the same time breaking promises to not bring Ukraine into NATO?

#3.1.1.1 ruralcounsel on 2022-03-10 08:11 (Reply)

Your argument doesn't make sense. If Russia takes Ukraine THEN NATO is on their border. So you are saying that Russia should take Ukraine because of NATO? Does that make sense to you?
Europe including Eastern Europe is made up of free countries. They are not beholding to Putin or there for the taking. As free countries they are free to form alliances and given Russia's history they had to form alliances. ALL of this is Russia's fault not Europe's, not NATO's, not Ukraine's. It is 100% Russia's fault and Russia's bad decisions.

Your choice of the phrase "neo-Nazi Ukrainian groups" makes me doubt that you are an honest person and that you might have a agenda. You are aware I'm sure that the Russians in Ukraine are far more threatening to innocent Ukrainians. But yet you only cite those Ukrainians who have chosen to defend themselves. Hmmm!

#3.1.1.1.1 OneGuy on 2022-03-10 09:38 (Reply)

Russia doesn't want to TAKE Ukraine. They want to neutralize it, make it a neutral buffer. Your error is in believing this nonsense about them wanting to reconstitute the old Union.

#3.1.1.1.1.1 ruralcounsel on 2022-03-11 08:02 (Reply)

ruralcounsel: They want to neutralize it, make it a neutral buffer.

They want to neutralize Ukraine like Belarus is neutralized. They want a compliant kleptocracy to control Ukraine.

#3.1.1.1.1.1.1 Zachriel on 2022-03-11 08:56 (Reply)

Kind of like our current government wants the Ukraine to be a complaint kleptocracy for our US politicians to leverage their power and keep their useless children on the payroll?

A large part of the Ukraine prefers to be associated with the Russians, the rest wants to be more western. I suspect Russia is well aware they cannot occupy the western Ukraine. It would be like a repeat of Afghanistan for them. But they aren't willing to let it be a knife at their throat or at the throat of the eastern Ukrainians.

Get real and quit thinking in terms of stereotype absolutes. It isn't as black and white as you make it out.

#3.1.1.1.1.1.1.1 ruralcounsel on 2022-03-12 10:27 (Reply)

ruralcounsel: Kind of like our current government wants the Ukraine to be a complaint kleptocracy for our US politicians to leverage their power and keep their useless children on the payroll?

Ukraine still has endemic corruption, but has improved since the Maidan Revolution. Generally, the West has encouraged the establishment of stronger democratic institutions in Ukraine as a safeguard against corruption.

ruralcounsel: A large part of the Ukraine prefers to be associated with the Russians, the rest wants to be more western.

Russia has fomented sectarianism, including providing military support to separatists. Zelenskyy won the presidency with a large percentage of the vote, including among majority Russian regions.

#3.1.1.1.1.1.1.1.1 Zachriel on 2022-03-12 13:54 (Reply)

Country Estate of {former} Ukrainian President Viktor Yanukovych. Today, the estate is being used to shelter people from surrounding villages trying to escape Russian attacks.

#3.1.1.1.1.1.2 Zachriel on 2022-03-11 10:16 (Reply)

Neo-nazi Ukrainian groups? Learn a little Ukrainian history. The Oliver Stone documentary mentioned below is a good source.

The internal war in the Ukraine has been in progress since 2014. Ignoring that means you don't know what you are talking about.

#3.1.1.1.1.2 ruralcounsel on 2022-03-11 08:06 (Reply)

No, I'm not being "lied to." In fact, I understand the broad context here quite well. As a 31 year (combat) veteran of the US Army who received extensive advanced education in the former Soviet Union, have a Russian Area Studies Master's from Georgetown and a Strategic Studies Master's from the US Army War College, speak fluent Russian (and Slovak and German), spent a good deal of time in Russia proper (as a START/INF Inspector/Monitor), traveled extensively in Russia, Ukraine, Belarus, Central Asia, etc., was stationed in central and Eastern Europe, served on three- and four-star staffs in theater and elsewhere, etc. etc., I do have a developed understanding of how Russia "sees" itself and the rest of the world, in particular what they consider their "near abroad," which most certainly includes Ukraine. You kid yourself in thinking that NATO cannot legitimately be viewed by other non-NATO states as 'hostile' or 'aggressive." Again, I cite NATO's completely elective assault on Serbia and Libya (which were inarguably zero threat to NATO). Those were hardly actions of a "defensive alliance." I again refer you to the very prescient views of true authorities on the subject of Russia and the West/NATO--Kissinger, Mearsheimer, Burns, et. al.--who saw the folly of NATO enlargement to the extent that it would be perceived--legitimately--by Russia as an existential threat. Ukraine has always served as a buffer for "Russia"--whether the Russian Empire, the Soviet Union, or more recently the Russian "Federation." Having Ukraine in NATO removes that buffer for Russia (and for Europe, frankly) which is stupid.

#3.1.1.2 PCB on 2022-03-10 12:42 (Reply)

So what you are saying is you applaud the invasion the bombing of hospitals the rapes, mass graves and 2 million refugees, right?

I have the exact opposite point of view. I think the Ukrainians had a right to their sovereignty regardless that someone somewhere speculated about NATO. I think that once Russia invaded them they should fight with everything they have. They should never give up and fight for their country. Give weapons to every man between 14-65 and everyone else who volunteers regardless of age or gender. Don't give up simply because someone on line hates NATO.

#3.1.1.2.1 OneGuy on 2022-03-10 13:45 (Reply)

I agree with you. Putin told Oliver Stone a few years ago that members of NATO are pressured by the US to do their bidding. The golden rule. Those with the gold rules. It sounds reasonable to me. We need some self reflection instead of assuming we are always white hat.

#3.1.2 Becky on 2022-03-09 22:20 (Reply)

"members of NATO are pressured by the US to do their bidding"

But isn't that the definition of politics. All the NATO countries pressure the U.S. to do THEIR bidding too. That means nothing, it is just what happens in the real world.

#3.1.2.1 JustMe on 2022-03-09 22:53 (Reply)

Conservative Tree House (The last refuge) currently has Oliver Stone's film on the Ukraine. You won't view the Ukraine or the US as all that innocent after watching. But it does require an hour of your time. As of today it is a couple of articles down from the top.

#3.1.2.2 indyjonesouthere on 2022-03-09 23:47 (Reply)

The Oliver Stone documentary "Ukraine on Fire" is available here on Rumble:

https://rumble.com/vwxxi8-ukraine-on-fire.html

It has been censored and removed from YouTube.

Featured prominently and often is Victoria Nuland - the nice lady you've seen testifying in front of Marco Rubio and telling him about all those bioweapons laboratories in Ukraine, which absolutely are not funded by the US but all the same we hope the Russian's don't get into them. Ukraine has a GDP the size of, say, Nebraska, in case you were wondering.

#3.1.2.3 Aggie on 2022-03-10 01:02 (Reply)

She also has a prominent role in Russia, Russia, Russia.

#3.1.2.3.1 indyjonesouthere on 2022-03-10 11:37 (Reply)

OneGuy: Putin chose now to invade Ukraine simply and for no other reason than Biden.

Trump had subverted NATO. Biden was intent on strengthening the alliance, so it was now or never for Putin.

OneGuy: Russia KNOWS that NATO isn't a threat.

Russia knows now, if it didn't before, that the Russian military stands no chance against NATO forces.

OneGuy: If Russia takes Ukraine THEN NATO is on their border. So you are saying that Russia should take Ukraine because of NATO?

Russia is on the Great European Plain, and it is much easier to defend from Ukraine, or better still, from Poland. Take a look:
https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/d/d5/European_plain.png

If an aggressor from the west can pre-position troops in Ukraine, then Russia would have to defend a very long border. If Russian troops can pre-position in Urkaine, then they can bottle up western aggressors.

#3.2 Zachriel on 2022-03-10 11:52 (Reply)

President Biden stumbled last year across a very clear Russian red line by implying that Ukraine can have a path to NATO membership. We know from WikiLeaks of US ambassador to Russia cables during the Obama administration articulating the clear red line. The then U.S. ambassador to Russia is now the CIA director. Once again the Biden proves Secretary Gates right. I'm afraid that Putin, like Stalin, will die in his sleep.

#4 Tony on 2022-03-09 18:14 (Reply)

Wokeness vs Reality, wokeness won't win. For more in depth explanation see Victor Davis Hanson or Mark Steyn or would like to hear suggestions. Please don't put up any of the losing woke US generals who will be on the defense contractors boards after awarding them huge contracts and retiring.

#5 grant1863 on 2022-03-09 18:21 (Reply)

Another good source for anti-wokeness is Matt Walsh.

#5.1 jdgalt1 (Link) on 2022-03-10 10:45 (Reply)

NATO is a cash cow and incredibly corrupt because it is an arm of the most corrupt country on earth, the United States. This whole bullshit farce is a creation of the corrupt, evil scum running the US government.

#6 ccoffer on 2022-03-09 19:41 (Reply)

"it is an arm of the most corrupt country on earth, the United States."

You're either incredibly ignorant, or a paid troll.

#6.1 William O. B'Livion on 2022-03-09 21:42 (Reply)

I'll agree that the US is not the most corrupt country on earth. This is not to say we aren't in the running these days. Innocent we're not.

But worse than the corruption is the selling out to the globalist factions and our incredibly naive foreign policy of going around the world interfering in other countries, trying to make them "liberal democracies" when we ourselves are far from being a liberal democracy anymore. We suck at "nation building" and have failed most everywhere we spilled American blood trying.

The combination of this horrible foreign policy and the takeover of the glogalists is a designed disaster for the US.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lz5cNzgF1-U

#6.1.1 ruralcounsel on 2022-03-10 08:18 (Reply)

In most cases the nations that are targeted for "liberal democracy" don't want it.

#6.1.1.1 Mohawk on 2022-03-10 09:20 (Reply)

The "NATO Expansion Causes WWIII" claim has been around since at least the 1990s when I was on my high school debate team.

I think the real question is, what interest has the U.S. ever had meddling in Ukraine? It has only served the elite ruling class as a pawn in lucrative corruption deals. FJB.

#7 Joe B. on 2022-03-09 19:48 (Reply)

No. While Putin may have some valid security concerns, this response is akin to stabbing your brother in the kidney because he kicked your shins. The main threat NATO poses is to Putin's personal wealth and position, not the nation.

#8 oigewan on 2022-03-09 21:16 (Reply)

A good synopsis of NATO/Western bungling.
He loses me with his citing of Oliver Stone and the Greek press as influences, but the analysis is as good as any, IMO.

https://www.americanthinker.com/blog/2022/03/heres_the_truth_on_ukraine_as_far_as_i_can_tell.html

#9 tim ferrell on 2022-03-10 05:52 (Reply)

Covid via Omicron has failed to deliver the req outcome, Climate Change panic is taking too long to arrive so another Panicdemic required, cover required for release of bug, smallpox+ maybe? Provoke Russia into invading the Ukraine, release Bug in the chaos, let the escaping Ukrainians spread it, propaganda MSM and Big Tech shitstorm to blame the Russians, make some more money with yet another vaccine, engender panic, establish totalitarian Govt across the west, steal everything, turn the electorate into Serfs, then home for tea and medals, just another working day for the US State Department and Globalism. The interesting thing is once these people get power how long can they keep it? Nuclear war is no respecter of enormous wealth.

#10 Murray on 2022-03-10 07:00 (Reply)

A good short explainer on Russia-Ukraine. Note that it was written in 2015, after the invasions of Crimea and the Donbas, not in 2022.

Map of the Euraisan Hordelands to go with the above link.

Update from PZ after the current invasion. He's also been producing a lot of updates on the overall geopolitical situation.

Russia area and informational maps
here,
here,
and here.

Bottom line, anybody ruling in Moscow is gonna covet Ukraine and resist efforts by anybody they perceive as an enemy to control it. Doesn't matter if their name is Putin, Stalin, Nicholas, or Catherine. To the extent we ignore that geopolitical reality it's going to cause further conflicts in the region.

#11 Christopher B on 2022-03-10 08:10 (Reply)

Russia's foreign policy has not changed for 500 years. Moscow is the New Byzantium. The Holy Rus is to be the leader, protector, and master of the Slavic peoples and the Orthodox Churches, whether or not these peoples are interested in being led, protected, or mastered by the Russians. This was true under the Czars, it is true under the Soviets, and it's true under Putin.
Thus the other Slavic peoples who don't see themselves as Russians, that is excepting Belorussia and possibly Georgia (almost completely Russified through colonization and ethnic cleansing), See an expansionist Russia as an existential threat.
The Ukrainians have a long historical memory of being treated as second-class citizens, or worse, as non-people, in their own land. Witness the Holodomor famine of the 1930s, where the Russian-dominated Soviet government pursued a deliberate policy of extermination through genocide against the Ukrainian people.
It is against this threat that Ukraine agreed to give up the Soviet-era nuclear weapons on their territory in exchange for an explicit US and UK guarantee that their territory would be protected.
The only threat to Russia posed by Ukrainian NATO membership is to the threat to re-establishing the Greater Russian Empire with Ukraine as something between a vassal state and a colony. It is Russian ambition that was threatened, not Russian existence or integrity.

#12 Another guy named Dan on 2022-03-10 08:19 (Reply)

The reporting on this, (none on Mainstream News) is everywhere!
You have been WAY behind on what is happening. Do some digging yourself.

#13 Joe W. (Link) on 2022-03-10 08:27 (Reply)

The invasion of Ukraine changed everything overnight. And so arguments about "how we got here" are now entirely moot.

No matter how you try to paint this situation - whether through citing ridiculous conspiracy theories or "Putin's security concerns" - you end up in the unenviable position of being an apologist for Russia.

Good luck with that, mes amis.

#14 JJM on 2022-03-10 08:46 (Reply)

You will notice a lot of "new" people posting here denigrating the U.S. and Ukraine and praising "mother Russia". Funny, huh? Names like: Shay Gaetz, walt reed, ruralcounsel, Becky, Tony, grant1863, Mohawk, tim ferrell, Murray, Christopher B, Joe W.

But nothing from Zach. Do you get the feeling that these might be Russian bots AND that Zach too is a Russian bot?

#15 Anon on 2022-03-10 09:49 (Reply)

zachriel is not a bot, she's certainly not Russian.

She's paid leftist (((Bolshevik))) agitprop. She's been on various sites for years, and as I have mentioned, she's been booted from many of them for her persistence in spreading falsehoods.

There is a lot of that paid agitprop in the US. I've seen small shops (4-5 people) in rural villages in Middle America. They write nonsense letters to the editor and stir up strife and envy among anyone willing to listen.

#15.1 DrTorch (Link) on 2022-03-10 10:07 (Reply)

We aren't bots or Russian (praise the mother land). We really are just good American citizens and certainly not FBI informants. We do have tiki torches in the closet in case they are needed to make Trump look bad. We are just joggers running to the store for skittles and iced tea. Besides at our last Not Bots meeting Zach e told us that the American public was so stupid that they would buy this crap. Fight global warming!! Yeah!

#15.2 JoeTheFarmer on 2022-03-10 10:18 (Reply)

I've been commenting here for years.

Christopher B on 2017-11-02 09:00

I am exceedingly tired of listening to argument ad Hitleruem and people spouting off ignorant assumptions based on history starting last Tuesday.

Though "Putin is responsible" is an accurate assessment of the current situation, it should not be used as an absolution for two decades of blunders by a succession of US and Western European governments that put NATO in the position of having the people of the Ukraine bear the brunt of the inevitable happening.

#15.3 Christopher B on 2022-03-10 11:02 (Reply)

If there were no NATO and we had a sane president and we didn't pay attention to what's going on in Europe do you honestly think that Ukraine would be free today??? Do you think Russia wouldn't invade it and absorb it into their neo-USSR? Is that what you are trying to convince us. If the mean nasty U.S. just minded their own business and stayed home the world would be a wonderful place. Really!!!

The thing about politics and diplomacy is that one side makes an effort to bring peace and to form alliances that will help insure peace by deterring aggression and the other side does everything that they can to screw all that up and make the first side in this look bad. THEN you come along and point at the result of (in this case Russia) making everything look bad and say "SEE!!!" as though you are clueless about what Russia has been doing all this time.

Sure U.S. policy sometimes is ineffective and sometimes results in the exact opposite of what we want (see comment above about the opposition trying to screw up our efforts). That isn't going to change. When we get a new president no matter how well meaning his efforts are or how correct they are things will still get screwed up (see comment above about the opposition trying to screw up our efforts). AND someone will spout of that the U.S. is incompetent and we only made it worse and yada, yada, yada. And Russia will thank you for your assistance!

#15.3.1 JustMe on 2022-03-10 11:24 (Reply)

2008 - Putin takes over the Crimea
2014 - Putin invades the Donbas
2015 -
2016 -
2017 -
2018 -
2019 -
2020 -
2021 -
2022 - Putin invades the rest of the Ukraine

Yes, if we had a sane President to go along with NATO and proper energy policy we could probably have prevented this from happening. We prevented it from happening between 2016 and 2022. What else has changed between 2020 and now?

#15.3.1.1 Christopher B on 2022-03-10 16:41 (Reply)

I did not praise, defend nor reference "mother russia". Fuck you.

#15.4 timferrell on 2022-03-10 11:38 (Reply)

Anon: Do you get the feeling that these might be Russian bots

Says "Anon".

DrTorch: She's paid leftist (((Bolshevik))) agitprop.

We are not paid to comment, nor are we a communist of any sort, much less a Bolshevik. We note your use of triple brackets denoting someone who is Jewish.

#15.5 Zachriel on 2022-03-10 12:04 (Reply)

I am a US Navy vet (Cold War era) and have also been commenting here for years.

These knee-jerk accusations of "Russian bots" because they disagree with you is proof that the accusers are too stupid to think for themselves. Should I accuse them of being paid Soros shills? Of being NWO globalists who think there should be no national boundaries?

Worse, they are so mindlessly patriotic that they don't realize when their country has been taken over by others with evil intent and is being mis-used.

An intelligent person who can think for themselves will honestly look at the facts and conclude that their own current government is lying to them and has a great deal of fault and blame for the current situation. That isn't backing Putin nor is it advocating for Russia to hurt innocent Ukrainian civilians.

#15.6 ruralcounsel on 2022-03-11 08:21 (Reply)

"We are not paid to comment, nor are we a communist"

Says "Zachriel".

You are far left, yeah you are communist.

#16 Anon on 2022-03-10 15:31 (Reply)

Anon: You are far left, yeah you are communist.

Indeed not. We don't advocate for public ownership of all property. Government ownership of all property or even all industrial property would lead to a dangerous concentration of power. Private property is an important bulwark of liberty. Nor do we ascribe to fanciful notions of utopian societies with perfect equality.

#16.1 Zachriel on 2022-03-10 16:17 (Reply)

I can't speak for Zachriel.

But I can tell you that I am further right-wing than 98% of my fellow Americans. To take a clip from the article referenced in Bird Dog's March 10 post, I'm about 100% Scots-Irish Jacksonian.

"The Scotch-Irish were militantly committed to their unconditional independence and autonomy. Unlike the Puritans, they did not view their individual rights and freedoms as privileges granted them by the state. Far from the bestower of rights, to the Scotch-Irish, governments were an invading, oppressive force, that could only encroach on one’s freedom, not give it. One’s entitlement to be left alone, to do what one wished with one’s family, property and land, was a natural right, which the Scotch-Irish were prepared to fight and die for."

#16.2 ruralcounsel on 2022-03-11 08:26 (Reply)

ruralcounsel: I can't speak for Zachriel.

How refreshing! Our outlook is well-expressed in the U.S. Declaration of Independence.

#16.2.1 Zachriel on 2022-03-11 08:53 (Reply)

Here is a concise summary of what led up to this mess.

http://rocksolidpolitics.blogspot.com/2021/12/war-in-ukraine-20.html

#17 Bill*B on 2022-03-11 08:09 (Reply)

I (or another alias) don't post much here, but I assure I am not a bot: Russian, national socialist (aka Progressive/Liberal) or otherwise. Here is a link to an excellent video with John Mearsheimer & Ex-CIA Ray McGovern & some other mostly Reagan admin connected people. I don't agree with Mearsheimer that Trump messed up by giving the Ukrainians the Javs that Obama/Biden denied nor that the old/pending Iran deal is anything but a catastrophic disastrous deal, but the rest of his analysis seems spot on. It's very long, but very good. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OeeqooNWO48&t=5867s

#18 TASTAFL on 2022-03-11 10:13 (Reply)

This is totally the West's fault. We interfered in Ukrainian politics massively. We helped engineer the "Orange Revolution" and lied to ourselves about how they were "freer" now. But the corruption and fascism and the political oppression there was ignored. There was money to be made. The truth about Ukraine was concealed because the media wanted to gush on Obama's "Win". I consider Mearsheimer to be correct on this. Look at the war hysteria around us. Is it a coincidence it comes at a time of failure of the Biden administration and low polling? Not at all. This is a perfect example of a govt that is using war to distract the public from the real problems here in America. The Republicans are typically stupid and reveal themselves to be just another wing of the corrupt and stupid ruling elites. God help us!

#19 Gary Foster on 2022-03-12 07:06 (Reply)

If Putin gets Ukraine into Russia, he will have FOUR Nato countries on his border

#20 bruce garrett on 2022-03-12 14:33 (Reply)

As above. Russia is on the Great European Plain, and it is much easier to defend from Russia Ukraine, or better still, from Poland. Take a look:
https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/d/d5/European_plain.png

If an aggressor from the west can pre-position troops in Ukraine, then Russia would have to defend a very long border. If Russian troops can pre-position in Ukraine, then they can bottle up western aggressors.

#20.1 Zachriel on 2022-03-12 14:42 (Reply)

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Wednesday, March 9. 2022

Did NATO push Putin into war?