We are a commune of inquiring, skeptical, politically centrist, capitalist, anglophile, traditionalist New England Yankee humans, humanoids, and animals with many interests beyond and above politics. Each of us has had a high-school education (or GED), but all had ADD so didn't pay attention very well, especially the dogs. Each one of us does "try my best to be just like I am," and none of us enjoys working for others, including for Maggie, from whom we receive neither a nickel nor a dime. Freedom from nags, cranks, government, do-gooders, control-freaks and idiots is all that we ask for.
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Monday, April 20. 2020
Thank God our parents and ancestors were not so fearful.
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YES! The madness needs to stop!
I live in a county of 209,000. As of yesterday, we had 72 cases and 1 death. This county is part of a 9 county metropolitan area with 2.1 million souls. The total area has had 1,500 cases and 75 deaths. For this, we are steadily ruining the livelihood of tens of thousands.
Governor says we're going to begin reopening the state May 1st. But no-one knows what that means. He then promptly canceled the rest of the school year. So another month plus of overtaxed parents having to play teacher as well as hold down jobs remotely (or sit and wait for the unemployment check wondering what the hell is going to happen)!
Don't anyone say we can't put a value on a life. Those deemed essential have been selected. Those forced into unemployment or bankruptcy have been kicked to the curve. Value noted!
It just has to be stop!
Start kicking Fed and state employees to the curb without pay and this will end quickly.
Unless of course it's the people here who are in fear and panic about the economy, and their right to hang out on the beach who have stopped using logic and facts. I am always suspicious of those who say "You over there, stop panicking! I'm the one who's being rational!" Yeah, never saw that go wrong.
I left liberalism in the 80s over this same attitude of people assuming they were the only rational ones and getting ever more insulting about it, especially about another epidemic, AIDS. Now conservatives are mirroring this, much to my dismay.
Y'all may be right that we can relax our restrictions. I personally think that outdoor transmission is such a low risk that we can drop those restrictions. But the medical professionals in the actual hospitals who are taking the highest risks and are losing money by transferring resources to keep themselves ready continue to give very cautious advice. Are they fascists who want to control our lives? Is there no chance that they think it might actually be safer? Is there any chance they might know what they are talking about?
And please, no anecdotes in response, nor cherry-picked data.
This time, conservatives are as bad as liberals about being polarising and giving more than just opinions, but a drumbeat that those who disagree with them are timid, and cowards, and over-willing to take orders from tyrants. There might be a 1% chance others have decent motives and know more than commenters at MF. Just a chance.
Can't remember where I came across this, the the University of Texas has a consortium of modellers whose output actually makes sense. Here: https://covid-19.tacc.utexas.edu/projections/
Before advocating the re-opening of your region, consider where it falls within the projections on the curve progression. Although many of the models have been poor to date, this presentation makes sense. It makes sense to start opening Texas up in May, incrementally.
The drivers for decision-making should still be epidemiologically based. The 'at-risk must be protected. The population at large must accept responsibility for their own health and also consideration of the health of those around them. The officials doing stupid draconian things that make people fed up because they are obviously arbitrary and tyrannical deserve our contempt though, at least as long as it takes to vote them away from authority.
You can shelter in place if you want. But you can’t force free healthy people that they must. This has never been done in history. Ever. Give people the facts and let them make a personal decision.
Of course if this were Ebola with a 40% death rate you would not have to make an argument, everyone one agree without argument. But when there are so few deaths and governors keep “essential services” like abortion open and go to court to keep this “essential service” open, everyone realizes it’s all bullshit. If liberals said “omg no abortion stay inside!“ then it’s serious.
This week watch lawsuits from liberals saying that it’s not so bad to stop the immigration pause, while they keep citizens under lock and key.
I can't determine if others have decent motives until I question their motives. Nothing wrong with that. Let's assume that the motives of all but the most political are decent and well intentioned. That leaves us with an honest debate of how to deal with specific problems.
Unemployment and the hospitals filling beyond capacity seemed to be the most urgent problems to solve.
Unemployment is a very real problem. The debate is how best to address unemployment. Some think that government loans, payments, increased aid, etc. are the best approach. Some think the best approach is to open the markets and let people make decisions in their own self interest.
To date, our hospitals have not been over-filled. No shortages of beds or ventilators. Possible solutions have arisen because of loosening government restrictions, not tightening them. An unintended consequence of government action is that many people are now doing without doctor appointmenst and important surgeries in order to reserve resources for a possible surge in covid patients. Can independent citizens come up with the best solutions for these problem or is government the best resource to address these concerns?
"To date, our hospitals have not been over-filled. "
To put it mildly.
Recall - in Seattle - troops from JBLM built a field hospital in the Quest Events Center in anticipation of over-filled hospitals. A big deal was made in the media.
Less than a week later, the whole thing was dismantled without admitting a single patient.
The only fear and panic I see are from the DNC globalists with crap presidential prospects and China trade being decimated. All their investments in China will become worthless as the US and Europe cut off trade with the CCP. We will likely all bleed but it should end their miserable regime.
Ya know? . . . .
Once upon a time when we were a great nation, Americans were tough. We soldiered through all kinds of adversity and we came out on the other side stronger and better for it. Land of the free and home of the brave.
Now we've degenerated into a bunch of cowards. Whiny cry babies that want Daddy Government to take care of us. Instead of living our lives like free men, we cower in our homes lest the boogeyman virus latches on to us and kills us.
Sigh . . .
Once upon a time liberty was regarded as the highest ideal. Recall Patrick Henry "Give me Liberty or Give me death". It wasn't "Give me liberty . . . . unless the corona virus strikes, and then I'm for tyrants."
We are told the power grab is "only temporary." Well, let's hope so. Lots of things Government promised would be "only temporary" have turned out to be permanent. For example, FDR started garnishing our wages during WWII because Uncle Sam needed the money to fight the war. It was promised that after the war the witholding would end. Except it didn't.
Now we have 10s of millions unemployed. Already 3.9% of home mortgages are delinquent and its only April. LA has an unemployment rate of 50%.
People that have the temerity to protest, wanting their jobs back, are told by people that have jobs that being unemployed and having hungry kids is for their own good.
Here's what my crystal ball says will happen. By June the pressure to open upon the economy will be overwhelming. Helicopter money from Trump won't be enough to keep the peasants fed. The economy will open up and a few weeks later the corona virus will return, but there won't be the political support to shut down the economy a second time so The Virus will be allowed to run its course, and the whole agony of the last 6 weeks will have been wasted.
I hope your prediction is at least close.
I am amazed at the timidity of so many neighbors and friends. It is almost revolting watching so many decent people walking around in masks with crazed looks in their eyes watching to make sure you keep your distance. Meanwhile the so called "invisible enemy" can't even muster a battalion of cases in my area. Nearly all of them from nursing homes.
The working people may win the day by June, but will any of the crazed and bewildered enter a restaurant, go to a ball game or visit a neighbor for a barbecue? Will old friends ever hug again?
I think we are misunderstanding what conservatives are saying about the shutdown. We Americans have certain inalienable rights and just as importantly the constitution limits what the government can do. We can come and go anywhere ay any time without law enforcement or military being dispatched to stop us. AND when our elected politicians infringe on our rights we do indeed have the right to protest, to vote them out and, yes, even remove them by force if necessary ( I hope it doesn't come to that). In the case of a pandemic or any national or local emergency the government has a responsibility to manage the crisis and make those hard decisions to get us all through the difficult times but NOOT by infringing on our rights. Tell us what we need to do, keep us informed with the best and most accurate advice and information and we will do what we believe is right NOT what you demand. Period! Not open to negotiation. If it is so important that we quarantine and cannot even go outside understand that A) that is OUR decision and B) YOU, the governor, better damn well be doing it yourself. Lead by example not by decree. Convince us do not arrest, fine, imprison or bully us. If we want to wear the damned mask we will and if we don't want to wear it all you can constitutionally do is clutch your friggin pearls because we are free American citizens and YOU are the hired help!!
So, "medical professionals", as if they are a homogeneous group, are now the only ones with valid opinions, and any other response is negated up front as "anecdotal" and/or "cherry picked". Get real. In my experience, when you hear "both sides do it" canard, it is coming from a liberal attempting to make political points while pretending not to.