We are a commune of inquiring, skeptical, politically centrist, capitalist, anglophile, traditionalist New England Yankee humans, humanoids, and animals with many interests beyond and above politics. Each of us has had a high-school education (or GED), but all had ADD so didn't pay attention very well, especially the dogs. Each one of us does "try my best to be just like I am," and none of us enjoys working for others, including for Maggie, from whom we receive neither a nickel nor a dime. Freedom from nags, cranks, government, do-gooders, control-freaks and idiots is all that we ask for.
The male desire to interact with, flirt with, or hit on charming females will never be eradicated no matter how hard the man-haters try. We can accept that groping and touching in the wrong context are over the top, and not effective ways to initiate a connection anyway.
As an aside, I wonder why so many of these recently-exposed skirt-chasers are so into presenting themselves nude to women. I am thinking of Weinstein, Charlie Rose, Al Gore, etc etc. Do they really think they look good naked? Or are they delusional? Not from personal experience, but it seems to me that the only guys who look great without clothing are gays. Women, on the other hand...
Secret truth: Guys wish that appealing women would hit on them. Guys complain that they have to take all the risk and do all the work in this game. Generally speaking, guys don't mind being grabbed by appealing females, but it doesn't happen in normal life much.
Can't we simply accept that male-female interactions frequently contain elements of fun with sexual overtones, and that life without that would be dreary indeed.
Given that nearly everyone nowadays has a phone that takes pictures, doesn't it seem likely that at least a few of the women so approached would have taken a picture of li'l Harv? As evidence?
Back in my single days I was 100% fine with compliments and being asked out. Even if it was someone I was not interested in, it was flattering and I liked it.
Vulgarities? No. But actually, from-the-heart compliments, YES!
Any young woman who tells you differently is NOT worth your time.
I have a very "inquisitive" wife. When she meets anyone new, man or woman, she asks all sorts of personal questions like how old they are, where they went to school, how many kids they have, what they think about this and that, etc. It's like she's writing a little Wikipedia entry in her head. I get the impression she's not unusual as a woman for doing that.
Sometimes she will ask me what I know about various women I come into contact with through work, etc. I tell her truthfully, "I don't know anything." She then asks why I don't find out things, to which I reply, "no way I'm doing that." She can't believe that I won't question them like she does, even though I tell her that in today's society, for a man to ask a woman any sort of personal question could be interpreted either as coming on to them or sexual harassment. Most men know to keep their mouths shut and not to have any sort of conversation other than what is strictly business.
And being able to compliment a woman on dressing nicely went into forbidden territory a long time ago.
And being able to compliment a woman on dressing nicely went into forbidden territory a long time ago.
An example from a quarter century ago. When my niece was in 6th grade, a male classmate informed her she was wearing "nice jeans." My niece's reply: he was a "male chauvinist." The poor kid was just trying to be nice.
She is now happily married, with two daughters, working a professional job.
Rule of life: never, never, ever, ever pull out your junk to show to somebody unless you are 110% sure that that person (male or female) absolutely wants to see it.
Follow that rule and you will never find yourself in a situation like Weinstein, Rose or any of those other sick bastards.
Can't we simply accept that male-female interactions frequently contain elements of fun with sexual overtones, and that life without that would be dreary indeed.
That's exactly what I was trying to explain to a lovely lady the other night but all she could do was scream to high heaven.
God! One would think she'd never seen a handgun before.
#5.1.1
drowningpuppies
on
2017-11-28 23:25
(Reply)
Single shot?
#5.1.1.1
William O. B'Livion
on
2017-11-29 02:10
(Reply)
Here's the way I've been told it's supposed to go down, in a beta way. Everybody likes the feeling that they are attractive to others. So first, you have to let them know that you'd be very interested if they were very interested. And then immediately after you have to assure them that you are acutely aware of and totally cool with it that nothing is going to happen. And then, you have to keep the interest at a simmer, showing by your actions that you're continue to be interested in them and find them interesting.
It's a long-term investment with a low probability of payout, and a high level of frustration. Life isn't long enough. The game guys say, show a little interest and then walk away with haughty confidence. Either they initiate the chase, or it ends right there. Clarity is good.
And this may be one of those situations where men and women think differently - if a woman lets me know she finds me attractive I take it as a compliment no matter if she's twice my age, twice my size and got twice the facial hair. I suspect women being approached by men they don't find attractive overthink it and take it as an insult - "This repulsive creature seems to think I'm unattractive enough to be in his league! How offensive!".
I have been 'harassed' by women. I think what we, as men, see as harassment is different. As my wife says, I "like to get my skirt on". I can hang out with women very easily and comfortably. Women don't usually mind me hanging around, I either fit in well or disappear easily while I watch/listen to them. They are often as boorish, in private, as men. Probably more so.
But when I said I've been 'harassed' I think it's the kind of stuff most women think are important. I've been 'harassed' for not having an "Emotional Quotient" at work. I don't 'care' enough about people's lives outside the office. Why should I?
So when I'm in a female-dominated situation (which my office frequently is), I am forced to work hard to engage behaviors which I can't stand, don't like, and which make me uncomfortable. I even, to a degree, find it offensive (insofar as I don't really care about wiping your child's butt). However, this isn't something I can complain about. Because it's not harassment.
It is to me when I'm told I need to "collaborate" more - and what they are saying isn't related to collaborating on work.
The corollary to "secret truth" and "secret secret truth" is "just the plain fact of the matter" that women who don't hit on "guys like us" must be lesbians.
I have a friend (a psychologist working for a private social work group) who CLAIMS she is "sexually harassed several times a week" at work.
The only thing I can think of is that people say she looks good (she is moderately pretty) or dresses well (she does). But I have NEVER worked anywhere that saw someone harassed "several times" a week. In fact, even what passes as moderate harassment never occurred with any regularity in my experiences at mid to upper level management.
I've seen, and testified for, harassment and discrimination cases. So I know what I've seen. But this woman got angry when I pushed back on the "several times" comment saying "are you saying I'm lying? Do you know what MY TRUTH is?" Well, no, I don't know your truth, and we all tend to craft A truth, but I do realize there is THE TRUTH and our truth is somewhere a bit further afield in most cases.
Meanwhile, another friend in the same field and same job but on the other side of the continental US LOVES when men are men. She actually loves convincing her male friends to go to strip clubs, loves and shares the dirtiest jokes I've heard, loves being treated like a female. She draws the line at boorish behavior, of course, but still enjoys dressing scantily and provocatively. She's also been married 3 times.
It is normal for men to "approach" women and it is usually the result of subtle and not so subtle social and sexual clues and actions by the woman. A woman in search of the company of men looks and acts differently than one who is not looking for a mate/lover/fun. While it might be true that a very small percentage of women could possibly display these mating ritual type signals without being aware of it 99% of women who do this know exactly what they are doing and it is intentional. Most likely when an interaction results in unwanted attention it is nothing more than the man misinterpreting these actions/displays/clues and not that the woman isn't displaying them but that their target group of men does not include the poor schlub who took the bait. In other words he wasn't Brad Pitt.
The conventional wisdom is that in these cases the woman has no responsibility in what happens. I disagree. I think the situation is actually like that expression that you have to kiss a lot of frogs before you find your prince. Now I'm not saying the woman must kiss or more with anyone she isn't interested in. What I am saying is if she acts and dresses as if she is looking then she has to expect that men will indeed hit on her and she must be clear in her response that she isn't interested in that particular individual.
Those who say "we have to train our young men and boys how to treat women" are being disingenuous and stupid. Life from age 14 to 92 is a serious of mating rituals and missed clues and we all know this at some level and to act as though it is the fault of all young men and boys is naive.
Scary. Witch hunt territory. Unless these powerful men r a p e d the women, seems horrifying that they are losing their jobs. That their careers are in shreds due to accusations is Stalinesque. And. I. Loathe. Rose and Lauer. The MSM and the Dems.
Still I do not like this at all.
When I was young, lovely and thick as a brick, I interned at the State House in Boston. Simply walking in to that building daily, I could feel the frisson, the air was electric with the aura of power and all the trappings of power. Exciting and dangerous.
That accusations can destroy powerful men, I start to view this as maybe a front in the war on men. Which women and anti-westerners are winning. Even as a woman I call foul on all this bs.
Re: "women ... are winning". There are two kinds of men in this world: Ben Rumson and Pardner. Only Pardner can be tamed and won over from Ben. And when Ben hears a whole lot of womenfolk start laying down a whole lot of rules and regulations, he takes off and follows the wandering star. And Pardner soon follows. Ha! You only think you're winning.
(Apologies for the mixed lines. So what, it's amuses me.)
