Maggie's Farm

We are a commune of inquiring, skeptical, politically centrist, capitalist, anglophile, traditionalist New England Yankee humans, humanoids, and animals with many interests beyond and above politics. Each of us has had a high-school education (or GED), but all had ADD so didn't pay attention very well, especially the dogs. Each one of us does "try my best to be just like I am," and none of us enjoys working for others, including for Maggie, from whom we receive neither a nickel nor a dime. Freedom from nags, cranks, government, do-gooders, control-freaks and idiots is all that we ask for.

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Saturday, April 22. 2017

QQQ

"I believe in political equality. But there are two opposite reasons for being a democrat. You may think all men so good that they deserve a share in the government of the commonwealth, and so wise that the commonwealth needs their advice. That is, in my opinion, the false, romantic doctrine of democracy. On the other hand, you may believe fallen men to be so wicked that not one of them can be trusted with any irresponsible power over his fellows. That I believe to be the true ground of democracy. I do not believe that God created an egalitarian world."


C.S.Lewis. via AVI's  Egalitarianism

Posted by Bird Dog in Quotidian Quotable Quote (QQQ) at 13:07 | Comments (9) | Trackbacks (0)

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Do you believe that the phrase "all men are created equal", from the Declaration of Independence is a legal fiction? Lewis calls equality a legal fiction later in an unquoted part of the essay; the leaders of the American revolution believed it a natural law.
#1 Fetterman on 2017-04-22 17:09 (Reply)
I think that is an inaccurate understanding of what the founders believed. Their understanding was similar to Lewis's.
#1.1 Assistant Village Idiot (Link) on 2017-04-22 18:02 (Reply)
The Decl. of Independence refers to the "Laws of Nature and of Nature's God", and then ... "all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness".

Sounds like more than Lewis' "legal fiction."
#1.1.1 Fetterman on 2017-04-23 16:16 (Reply)
No, it sounds exactly like Lewis's "legal fiction." They have equal rights. They may pursue. I have actually heard of the Declaration of Independence, you needn't think you are bringing anything new to the table that hasn't been noticed before. In another place Lewis notes that the American attitude is that "People have a right to do what they have a right to do, which sounds obvious and tautological but is actually rare in other places."

You seem determined to not reconsider your position and simply be critical, certain that you are right. Perhaps you are getting hung up on the idea that the word "fiction" sometimes means "untrue." It does not mean that in this case.
#1.1.1.1 Assistant Village Idiot (Link) on 2017-04-23 16:43 (Reply)
I'm trying to be polite. "Legal fiction" is a term of art, e.g., business entities are persons for various purposes (first amendment rights, property ownership). It also has a connotation of acceptable artificiality (because these rights can be curtailed) profoundly different than a pronouncement that God created all men equal.

Lewis's essay is not a political screed.
#1.1.1.1.1 Fetterman on 2017-04-23 18:56 (Reply)
I understood the founders to be disputing the notion that people should inherit political status, e.g., titles. I'd be very surprised if any of them would have argued that people are literally equal in their abilities. They obviously didn't push the political equality concept too far, either, as they made a noteworthy exception for slaves. Nevertheless, they were making a great advance in thinking just in disputing the notion that one man should rule another merely by virtue of his birth.
#2 Texan99 on 2017-04-22 19:10 (Reply)
The founders were refering to Anglo Saxons. No one else need apply.
#3 Bob Sykes on 2017-04-22 21:25 (Reply)
Tell that to Condi Rice, Colin Powell, Herman Cain, Clarence Thomas, Thomas Sowell, etc. And people like Tom Hudner (USN-Medal of Honor recipient) who risked their lives for blacks.
#3.1 Mark on 2017-04-23 15:25 (Reply)
It is troubling when I can't tell if you're serious or not.
#3.2 Fetterman on 2017-04-23 16:17 (Reply)

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