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Saturday, December 17. 2016

Saturday morning links - First day of Christmas Shopping

Image above via Insty

Record Number of Manatees Killed By Boaters This Year

12 Behind-the-Scenes Secrets of Private Investigators

What If Consumers Just Want to Buy Junk Food? Americans may say they’re seeking out healthier fare, but sales figures tell a different story.

Aging Is Reversible—at Least in Human Cells and Live Mice

Soon, married Italians might not have to promise to be faithful

They ignore it anyway, because amore and the animal urge to merge

People Are Freaking Out Because Obama Just Said ‘Merry Christmas’

Isn't it a hate crime?

Hate Crime Hysteria - A “victim” of a high-profile anti-Muslim incident recants, embarrassing New York politicians who bought her story whole-cloth.

NYT Blames Winter Chill on Global Warming

California Governor Jerry Brown: 'We're Ready to Fight' Trump on Climate Change

Why doesn't California secede already? No civil war, guaranteed this time

Vulnerable Democrats Suddenly Open To Replacing Ocare

The Left Is Enraged Over Trump's New Ambassador to Israel - Because he - wait for it - supports the Jewish State.

Obama Criticizes The Electoral College, Calls It ‘Vestige’ Of Earlier Version Of Gov’t

Wrong

This is a revolution: There has not been such a transition since Roosevelt in 1932:

... there was never any serious argument for reelecting the Democrats, their whole campaign was to defame Trump as a sexist and a racist. There was never a jot of truth to any of it, as his cabinet appointments are showing. Trump’s popularity is rising steadily and most Americans think Obama has already gone as president. The president-elect is driving a bulldozer at 60 miles per hour toward the wreckage of decades of misgovernment and misinformation, while the departing incumbents crawl around on their hands and knees complaining that the lights have gone out. For them, they have.

It was a Hope and Change election

Michelle Obama says America is entering a time of hopelessness

Trump Gets as Serious as Texas

Trump might be a wackjob, and I did think so, but I can't object to his employees who will do the real work. Even some of my ardent Dem friends are hopeful. Donald may have ADD or Bipolar Disorder, and is a Democrat at heart, but with Pence and Priebus in charge, and The Donald as larger-than-life figurehead, seems like a promising mix...We'll see.

New York Times writer goes insane over President Trump

The DC cocktail parties:

“Lawmakers are overall the reason we have the problems that we have, because they think that they’re the smartest people in the world and they sit in D.C. and talk to themselves, and if you don’t sit on the cocktail circuit there you don’t know anything about anything,” said a senior transition aide. “I think they’re intimidated by a guy like this — they don’t know him and he doesn’t owe them anything.”

Fun with Socialism: Venezuelans Protest Over Worthless Cash

At Christmastime

Posted by Bird Dog in Hot News & Misc. Short Subjects at 06:31 | Comments (79) | Trackback (1)

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BD: It was a Hope and Change election

True. Business and consumer confidence are way up since the election.

Michelle Obama: Now we see what not having hope feels like.

You just can't make this stuff up.

#1 mudbug on 2016-12-17 07:29 (Reply)

Michelle know the Gang of Z.

#1.1 Sam L. on 2016-12-17 12:31 (Reply)

Moochelle will go back to feeling hopeless.

#1.2 Will Bithers on 2016-12-18 01:36 (Reply)

I would feel hopeless too if I were Michelle O. She and her husband ( and the Democrat leadership) set out to destroy our country and our way of life. We the American people stopped them, but not before THEY destroyed their own Democrat party. Just look @ the shambles left of the Democrat party. Especially the in the state governorships and state houses and senates. They have little or no back bench. Michelle O feels hopeless because things ARE pretty hopeless for leftist ideas/ideals.

#1.3 vichris on 2016-12-18 03:16 (Reply)

If Obama finally said Merry Christmas he only said it because Donald Trump has been saying it and putting it on signs at his Thank You rallies for a couple of weeks. People in the public have been openly been saying it again. How nice!

#2 JC on 2016-12-17 08:24 (Reply)

JC: If Obama finally said Merry Christmas he only said it because Donald Trump has been saying it and putting it on signs at his Thank You rallies for a couple of weeks.

Truthy or post-truth?

Here’s a Video of President Obama Saying “Merry Christmas” Over and Over and Over

#2.1 Zachriel on 2016-12-17 09:59 (Reply)

don't be upset. this is a Christian country. we say "Merry Christmas" all the time.

you'll learn, loser.

#2.1.1 Will Bithers on 2016-12-17 12:48 (Reply)

The last couple of years Obama has made the Thanksgiving proclamations totally secular. And while he waxes lavish in his proclamations about "we Muslims" on Muslim holy days, Christmas and Easter wishes have been pretty much reduced to nothing by this White House. Since he grew up in a Christian society Obama can pretend to a certain extent, but his anti-Christian, pro-Muslim and pro-secular tendencies are pretty easily documented.

#2.2 Jim on 2016-12-17 14:35 (Reply)

QUOTE:

First they tried rioting ...

"They"? Oh, we get it {wink, wink}. Sorta like Obama isn't a real 'Merican.

#3 Zachriel on 2016-12-17 10:13 (Reply)

No, "they" are the people who said Trump was a threat to our democracy because he might not accept the results of the election.

#3.1 mudbug on 2016-12-17 10:27 (Reply)

mudbug: No, "they" are the people who said Trump was a threat to our democracy because he might not accept the results of the election.

The vast majority of protesters were peaceful, so that must be referring to a very small number of people.

The hacks were a deliberate interference in the U.S. election by a foreign adversary.

As for convincing the electors to change their votes, apparently that's part of the U.S. electoral system. It should be reformed, of course. Faithless electors threaten to further undermine American democracy. But it is what it is.

#3.1.1 Zachriel on 2016-12-17 10:40 (Reply)

I know the Zach Borg doesn't reside in America, but we are a constitutional republic, not a democracy, you should learn the difference.

The only time the electoral college is an issue, is when the left losses elections. The only people that are threatening electors are lefties.

#3.1.1.1 B Hammer on 2016-12-17 13:10 (Reply)

Is this the firm that the Zach Borg works for: http://dailycaller.com/2016/12/13/clinton-obama-supporters-part-of-faithless-elector-push/?

#3.1.1.1.1 B Hammer on 2016-12-17 13:15 (Reply)

B Hammer: Is this the firm that the Zach Borg works

We are against faithless electors as they will further undermine American democracy.

#3.1.1.1.1.1 Zachriel on 2016-12-17 14:47 (Reply)

B Hammer: we are a constitutional republic, not a democracy

Actually, the U.S. is both a democracy (universal suffrage) and a constitutional republic (a legislature made up of elected representatives under the constraints of a constitution).

democracy, a government in which the supreme power is vested in the people and exercised by them directly or indirectly through a system of representation usually involving periodically held free elections.

B Hammer: The only time the electoral college is an issue, is when the left losses elections.

The Electoral College is an issue whenever a majority of electors does not match the majority of the voters.

B Hammer: The only people that are threatening electors are lefties.

That is incorrect.

#3.1.1.1.2 Zachriel on 2016-12-17 14:46 (Reply)

Z: The Electoral College is an issue whenever a majority of electors does not match the majority of the voters.

You obviously don't understand our system. The majority does not choose the president by design.

#3.1.1.1.2.1 mudbug on 2016-12-17 16:38 (Reply)

mudbug: The majority does not choose the president by design.

How quaint.

#3.1.1.1.2.1.1 Zachriel on 2016-12-18 09:49 (Reply)

Jeepers! You send me to the guy in Texas, that quit on his on volition? As far as I can tell, nobody got after him until after he quit. Dereliction of duty.

The rest of your comment is just plain jibberish.

#3.1.1.1.2.2 B Hammer on 2016-12-17 17:19 (Reply)

Z: The vast majority of protesters were peaceful, so that must be referring to a very small number of people.

So. There are rioters who are rioting in response to the results of the election. Most of whom did not even register to vote and were likely paid to riot in the first place. As for the peaceful ones, the fact still remains that they are protesting the results of an election because they didn't accept the results.

Z: The hacks were a deliberate interference in the U.S. election by a foreign adversary.

We're obviously talking about the Russians here. Why would they try to hurt Hillary's chances to become president. She acquiesced in their owning 20% of uranium production in the US, she brown-nosed them with her stupid "Reset" button and Obama, whose policies she claimed to want to continue was happy to be more "flexible" with Russia back in 2012. Then, exactly how did they interfere with the election (if they did)? So far nobody will come out and say they know Russia did it (only anonymous sources). But if they did, what did they do? They exposed the corruption and dishonesty of the the Hillary campaign and the DNC in general. You're not telling me that you would have been against releasing the Pentagon Papers, are you?

#3.1.1.2 mudbug on 2016-12-17 16:33 (Reply)

mudbug: As for the peaceful ones, the fact still remains that they are protesting the results of an election because they didn't accept the results.

Sure. They have a right to their political beliefs. However, the original claim lumped people together with only a tenuous connection as a "they".

Let's compare. Trump said he would only accept the election results if he won. Small numbers of unnamed protesters say "He's not our president".

mudbug: Why would they try to hurt Hillary's chances to become president.

Because Trump is ignorant. Because Trump is easy to manipulate. Because Trump brings in corporate interests who want to do business with Russia. Because Trump will ratify their annexation of the Crimea and remove sanctions. Because Trump will ignore Russian misadventures. Because Trump supports Russia military incursions in the Middle East. Because Trump's election undermines and distracts Russia's primary adversary.

mudbug: She acquiesced in their owning 20% of uranium production in the US

That's a misrepresentation of facts. Instead of relying on the right-wing echochamber, why don't you turn a skeptical eye to your claim.

mudbug: So far nobody will come out and say they know Russia did it (only anonymous sources).

Oh gee whiz. How many times do we have to provide this citation for you? This is not anonymous:

Joint Statement from the Department Of Homeland Security and Office of the Director of National Intelligence on Election Security: "The U.S. Intelligence Community (USIC) is confident that the Russian Government directed the recent compromises of e-mails from US persons and institutions, including from US political organizations... These thefts and disclosures are intended to interfere with the US election process."

mudbug: But if they did, what did they do?

They broke into the DNC and then released their private information in order "to interfere with the U.S. election process."

mudbug: You're not telling me that you would have been against releasing the Pentagon Papers, are you?

Leaking the Pentagon Papers was illegal. Publishing them was not.

#3.1.1.2.1 Zachriel on 2016-12-18 09:47 (Reply)

Z: Because Trump is ignorant. Because Trump is easy to manipulate. Because Trump brings in corporate interests who want to do business with Russia. Because Trump will ratify their annexation of the Crimea and remove sanctions. Because Trump will ignore Russian misadventures. Because Trump supports Russia military incursions in the Middle East. Because Trump's election undermines and distracts Russia's primary adversary.

Not to mention Trump tacit (and not so tacit) support for Russian hacking of the political process (and not just in the U.S.).

In fact, Russian propaganda made clear before and after the U.S. election whom they preferred.

#3.1.1.2.1.1 Zachriel on 2016-12-18 11:27 (Reply)

This just more and more tedious...

Nobody is suggesting that people don't have a right to disagree or even protest the outcome of an election, but it's more than a little rich to be lectured that if a candidate doesn't proclaim before the election that he will accept the results (no matter how they were achieved) and then have those same people protest the result of the election. Even you can see that... Well maybe not.

"Trump is easy to manipulate..." Hillary doesn't need to be manipulated. She has already shown she's a push over and the uranium deal is one example. She now claims that Russia is the bad boy anti US player on the world stage. And when did she come to that conclusion? Before she didn't object to their acquiring 20% of us production of a strategic material (uranium) or when it only when it served her purposes? You dispute my charge that she acquiesced in giving it to them, but she could have voiced an objection and did not.

You keep posting this statement from two departments, but you won't name a single person who will take responsibility for that charge. Not a single person will go before Congress and explain or show the evidence that the Russians were involved. However, there are people who have come forward and said they know from where the information came and not only did it not come from the Russians but it came from and insider. Until I have better information, I'll take the word of the guy who is willing to put his name to an assertion.

You focus on what may or may not be illegal (Assange said it was legally obtained), but you intentionally miss the point I'm making. Whoever did it did it to influence an election, not interfere. The information that came out was genuine. Nobody has alleged that it was faked. The election was influenced by previously unknown facts about the DNC and the Hillary campaign. You described the facts of the Pentagon papers but you didn't answer my question (as usual).

#3.1.1.2.1.1.1 mudbug on 2016-12-18 14:17 (Reply)

mudbug: Nobody is suggesting that people don't have a right to disagree or even protest the outcome of an election, but it's more than a little rich to be lectured that if a candidate doesn't proclaim before the election that he will accept the results (no matter how they were achieved) and then have those same people protest the result of the election.

"They" again. "Those people".

mudbug: She has already shown she's a push over and the uranium deal is one example.

That was an interagency decision that with which Clinton was not involved.

mudbug: You keep posting this statement from two departments

Seventeen separate agencies.

mudbug: However, there are people who have come forward and said they know from where the information came and not only did it not come from the Russians but it came from and insider.

For the Podesta hack, we know the who, what, and when, of the hack from independent sources. Congressional leaders have already been briefed on the DNC hack. Some methods may not be available for open hearings, for rather obvious reasons.

mudbug: Whoever did it did it to influence an election, not interfere.

Hacking private internal communications of the DNC is certainly interfering in the election. But you are right. The Russians were trying to influence the election by damaging Clinton, and helping Trump.

#3.1.1.2.1.1.1.1 Zachriel on 2016-12-18 14:34 (Reply)

Z: "They" again. "Those people".

You're incapable of seeing hypocrisy on your side, aren't you?

Z: That was an interagency decision that with which Clinton was not involved.

One of the agencies was the State Dept. She was head of the State Dept. at the time and raised no objection.

Z: Seventeen separate agencies.

No named individuals... sigh...

Z: For the Podesta hack, we know the who, what, and when, of the hack from independent sources. Congressional leaders have already been briefed on the DNC hack. Some methods may not be available for open hearings, for rather obvious reasons.

Which "independent sources"? Crowdstrike, the firm hired by the DNC? Pretty convenient.

Z: Hacking private internal communications of the DNC is certainly interfering in the election. But you are right. The Russians were trying to influence the election by damaging Clinton, and helping Trump.

I'm not sure how hacking (even if that's what happened) the DNC is interfering with the election. You say the Russians were trying to influence the election. I don't - at least till I get solid information that Assange is either mistaken or lying. As for helping Trump, the original fake news was that both the DNC and RNC were hacked and only the DNC dirt was revealed. But what was true is that both were attacked. If it was a hack as you contend, then the DNC is just showing that it's not as secure as the RNC. Or maybe they're no smarter than Podesta who was trapped by one of the most publicized and common tricks on the net. What a dope.

#3.1.1.2.1.1.1.1.1 mudbug on 2016-12-18 15:06 (Reply)

mudbug: You're incapable of seeing hypocrisy on your side, aren't you?

Perhaps you are incapable of understanding how the use of "they" can be a problem of categorization, and insulting to many ethnic groups as well.

mudbug: One of the agencies was the State Dept. She was head of the State Dept. at the time and raised no objection.

That's right. She wasn't involved in the decision, which involved many different agencies, all of whom signed off on the deal. By the way, you do realize that the uranium can't leave North America?

mudbug: No named individuals... sigh...

Gee whiz. The official statement required approval by the heads of all seventeen agencies, including Director of National Intelligence James Clapper and Homeland Security Secretary Jeh Johnson.

“The emails released on sites like WikiLeaks are consistent with methods and motivations of Russian-directed efforts,” Clapper said before a security summit. “We wouldn’t have made {the statement} unless we were very confident."

mudbug: Which "independent sources"? Crowdstrike, the firm hired by the DNC?

Crowdstrike and SecureWorks have both shown who, when, and how of the Podesta hack.

mudbug: I'm not sure how hacking (even if that's what happened) the DNC is interfering with the election.

The hack itself doesn't interfere, but the timed release was certainly devised for maximum impact.

mudbug: I don't - at least till I get solid information that Assange is either mistaken or lying.

You're free to ignore the evidence, but it doesn't make for a convincing argument.

mudbug: If it was a hack as you contend, then the DNC is just showing that it's not as secure as the RNC.

Expecting the DNC to have the ability to thwart a sophisticated foreign intelligence agency is not a viable strategy. The U.S. has to confront Russia directly or the Russian will continue to sow electoral confusion around the world.

#3.1.1.2.1.1.1.1.1.1 Zachriel on 2016-12-19 09:01 (Reply)

The hacks are meaningless. If they mattered why did Mr. Obama ignore them until after Ms. Rodham was beat? Political theater and nothing more. The 1980's called and they want their foreign policy back.

#3.1.1.3 Joe Luke on 2016-12-18 13:47 (Reply)

Joe Luke: The hacks are meaningless. If they mattered why did Mr. Obama ignore them until after Ms. Rodham was beat?

They weren't ignored, but were an issue during the campaign. Obama held a secret meeting with the Congressional leadership for a bipartisan response, but was stymied by McConnell.

#3.1.1.3.1 Zachriel on 2016-12-18 14:06 (Reply)

Zach, what proof do you have Obama is a real American? He doesn't even have a real birth certificate or social security number.

#3.2 Jim on 2016-12-17 14:44 (Reply)

Jim: what proof do you have Obama is a real American?

Truthy or post-truth? Post-truth, clearly.

#3.2.1 Zachriel on 2016-12-17 14:48 (Reply)

The birth certificate has been proven by forensic analysis to be a forgery, pasted together from the birth certificates for other people. His social security number is also a major problem. If you are from Hawaii, you know Hawaii social security numbers start with 575- or 576-. His starts with 042-, which either means he wasn't born in Hawaii or that the number is fake. The SSN is even more of a red flag than the birth certificate is, but no one can say anything about it.

#3.2.1.1 Jim on 2016-12-17 18:00 (Reply)

Jim: The birth certificate has been proven by forensic analysis to be a forgery

Yes, the state of Hawaii is in on the scam.

#3.2.1.1.1 Zachriel on 2016-12-18 09:50 (Reply)

The interesting thing is that no one else on this forum objects to the continued otherism of the first African American president.

Come on everyone! You can now get on the right side of this issue, now that the black guy won't be president much longer. You can start pretending you were always on the right side, and that otherizing Obama wasn't racist at its very core.

#3.2.1.1.2 Zachriel on 2016-12-18 09:53 (Reply)

You reply with some variant of this verbal tic often lately. I haven't been able to figure out if it's just a new variety of squid ink when you've got nothing substantive and don't feel like posting a non-sequitur link, or if you think it's clever in some way.

#3.2.1.2 Texan99 on 2016-12-18 18:34 (Reply)

Texan99: You reply with some variant of this verbal tic often lately

American civilization is in a transitional phase between truthiness and post-truth. When JC said that Obama only said "Merry Christmas" because of Trump, we posted a video of Obama, with varying shades of gray hair, saying "Merry Christmas" over and over and over again. JC's original claim was based on his feeling that it was true, and the question was whether he would adjust his position based on this new evidence: Truthy or post-truth?

In Jim's case, he was making a claim that was false from its inception, was clearly falsified many times over many years, yet he continues to make the claim regardless of the evidence. Furthermore, others on the thread don't challenge his claim. Truthy or post-truth? Post-truth clearly.

#3.2.1.2.1 Zachriel on 2016-12-19 09:08 (Reply)

the Electoral College was intended to keep people like Hillary out of the presidency.

#3.3 Will Bithers on 2016-12-17 19:09 (Reply)

QUOTE:

defame Trump as a sexist and a racist. There was never a jot of truth to any of it, as his cabinet appointments are showing.

Um, Trump's chief strategist ran a magazine the strategist called the voice of the alt-Right.

#4 Zachriel on 2016-12-17 10:15 (Reply)

The fact that he ran a magazine that's been called the voice of the alt-right does not mean he is a racist- take a look at that magazine- you won't find anything racist.

#4.1 LP on 2016-12-17 20:07 (Reply)

LP: The fact that he ran a magazine that's been called the voice of the alt-right does not mean he is a racist- take a look at that magazine- you won't find anything racist.

Bannon has said that Breitbart is the voice of the alt-right. Their "An Establishment Conservative's Guide to the Alt-Right" says that Richard Spencer is the intellectual center of the Alt-Right. Spencer calls for ethnic cleansing of non-whites and the establishment of America as a white ethnostate. Maybe Bannon isn't racist, but he gives voice to white nationalism.

#4.1.1 Zachriel on 2016-12-18 10:29 (Reply)

"California Governor Jerry Brown: 'We're Ready to Fight' Trump on Climate Change"

Well, 47.7% of the state is owned outright by the federal government. Then there will be those pro-America areas that will want, and vote, to remain in the union. There is also the matter of the pro-rata portion of the national debt that belongs to California. Not to mention that 34% of the national welfare recipients live in CA, a state that has only 12% of the population.

#5 JK Brown on 2016-12-17 10:17 (Reply)

"The Left Is Enraged Over Trump's New Ambassador to Israel - Because he - wait for it - supports the Jewish State. "

He is also, apparently, not crazy, as in the "doing the same thing over and over, expecting different results". He will be something different, so there could be different results.

#6 JK Brown on 2016-12-17 10:19 (Reply)

QUOTE:

The Left Is Enraged Over Trump's New Ambassador to Israel - Because he - wait for it - supports the Jewish State.

That's not accurate, of course. The problem as they see it is his advocacy of recognizing Jerusalem as the capital of Israel and only of Israel, contrary to generations of U.S. policy, and increased settlements in and annexation of the West Bank, also contrary to generations of U.S. policy. It's not even clear how annexation would work, but would apparently be an apartheid society of some sort.

#6.1 Zachriel on 2016-12-17 10:35 (Reply)

I don't know if Friedman wants Jerusalem (presumably including East Jerusalem) to be the capital of only Israel, but for the sake of argument, I'll accept it. What is interesting is that at the same time, the left has no problem with the Palestinian Authority not acknowledging the state of Israel to exist at all.

I find it interesting that most of the West Bank is an area called Judea - named derived from Israelite tribe of Judah.

As for apartheid states, the South Africans were pikers compared to the Palestinians.

#6.1.1 mudbug on 2016-12-17 11:11 (Reply)

mudbug: I don't know if Friedman wants Jerusalem (presumably including East Jerusalem) to be the capital of only Israel

Friedman has said that he wants Jerusalem to be the "undivided capital" of Israel.

mudbug: What is interesting is that at the same time, the left has no problem with the Palestinian Authority not acknowledging the state of Israel to exist at all.

That's the bargain. Palestine will recognize Israel when there is a final settlement, and the world will recognize Jerusalem as Israel's capital. They have a problem with recognizing Israel as "Jewish state" considering the numbers of Palestinians living there.

mudbug: I find it interesting that most of the West Bank is an area called Judea - named derived from Israelite tribe of Judah.

Sure. In Biblical times, Jews did inhabit the region. Zealots want to reinhabit the West Bank. The problem is that there are millions of people already living there.

mudbug: As for apartheid states, the South Africans were pikers compared to the Palestinians.

You haven't answered the objection. What solution do you foresee? A single democratic state would mean Israel would no longer have a Jewish majority. An apartheid state would be untenable. Expelling millions of people would be disastrous.

#6.1.1.1 Zachriel on 2016-12-17 11:23 (Reply)

Z: Friedman has said that he wants Jerusalem to be the "undivided capital" of Israel.

You don't take "yes" for an answer! I conceded your point.

Z: That's the bargain. Palestine will recognize Israel when there is a final settlement, and the world will recognize Jerusalem as Israel's capital. They have a problem with recognizing Israel as "Jewish state" considering the numbers of Palestinians living there.

There's no bargain. The PA will never recognize Israel's right to exist. The Fatah Constitution calls for the "liberating Palestine" from Zionist occupiers.

QUOTE:

a Zionist invasion with a colonial expansive base, and it is a natural ally to colonialism and international imperialism.
Article (9) Liberating Palestine and protecting its holy places is an Arab, religious and human obligation...

Article (12) Complete liberation of Palestine, and eradication of Zionist economic, political, military and cultural existence."

And do they consider Palestine? Everything including Israel: https://poppycockstudies.files.wordpress.com/2015/01/pa-map-of-palestine-israel.jpg

Also when Arafat was offered essentially everything he demanded for a Palestinian state, he rejected it.

Z: Sure. In Biblical times, Jews did inhabit the region. Zealots want to reinhabit the West Bank. The problem is that there are millions of people already living there.

In all the conflicts about what land belongs to who, who were the original occupants is an important concept. There are millions of people living in Israel, too, but that doesn't stop Palestinians from calling for the end of Israel.

Z: You haven't answered the objection. What solution do you foresee? A single democratic state would mean Israel would no longer have a Jewish majority. An apartheid state would be untenable. Expelling millions of people would be disastrous.

I didn't address an objection. I'm not offering a solution. I only stated a fact. BDS supporters (pretty much exclusively on the left) already call Israel an apartheid state. It is anything but, but the Palestinian areas are worse than an apartheid state. Any Jew would be murdered in those areas and there would be no legal consequences. In fact streets are named after suicide (homicide) bombers who blow up civilians in Israel. There are Muslims who live in Israel. There are Mosques in Israel, but there are no Jews or synagogues in the Palestinian areas.

#6.1.1.1.1 mudbug on 2016-12-17 16:18 (Reply)

mudbug: You don't take "yes" for an answer! I conceded your point.

You did arguendo, so we clarified the point.

mudbug: The PA will never recognize Israel's right to exist.

That can't be known with certainty. The U.S. Constitution allowed for slavery, but that was changed by amendment.

mudbug: The Fatah Constitution calls for the "liberating Palestine" from Zionist occupiers.

Fatah is a political party, not a government. The Palestinian Authority does not have a written constitution. In any case, recognition of Israel is one of the primary issues at stake.

mudbug: Also when Arafat was offered essentially everything he demanded for a Palestinian state, he rejected it.

It may have been foolish, but it was hardly irrational. The plan would have left the West Bank divided, with the most fertile lands and water aquifers in Israeli hands.

mudbug: In all the conflicts about what land belongs to who, who were the original occupants is an important concept.

Sure. Palestinians are also original inhabitants of the land.

mudbug: I didn't address an objection.

The situation in the West Bank is untenable.

mudbug: BDS supporters (pretty much exclusively on the left) already call Israel an apartheid state... the Palestinian areas are worse than an apartheid state.

That's a reasonable description. The West Bank is divided into multiple enclaves; travel requires going through multiple security checkpoints; and all movements is highly constrained. There are fortified Jewish settlements in areas populated by Palestinians.

Map of West Bank

#6.1.1.1.1.1 Zachriel on 2016-12-18 09:34 (Reply)

Z: That can't be known with certainty.

I suppose one day pigs will be able to fly.

Z: Fatah is a political party...

Is there another political party in Palestine that has a different view? Is there ANY political thought in Palestine that Israel has a right to exist now?

Z: Sure. Palestinians are also original inhabitants of the land.

The fact that the area is called Judea enforces the fact that it was a Jewish area. The fact that Palestinians lived there too is irrelevant.

Z: The situation in the West Bank is untenable.

Yes. How long can a society be governed by so much hate that they teach their kids to blow themselves up in an effort to blow up Israelis? "When they love their kids more than they hate us, there will be peace" - paraphrased quote attributed to Golda Meir.

Z: There are fortified Jewish settlements in areas populated by Palestinians.

When Jews can be elevated to second class citizens in Palestine, they Palestine will have risen to apartheid status.

#6.1.1.1.1.1.1 mudbug on 2016-12-18 14:36 (Reply)

mudbug: Is there ANY political thought in Palestine that Israel has a right to exist now?

And Israel does not recognize Palestine as a state either, and is de facto military occupier of the West Bank.

mudbug: The fact that the area is called Judea enforces the fact that it was a Jewish area. The fact that Palestinians lived there too is irrelevant.

We read somewhere, "In all the conflicts about what land belongs to who, who were the original occupants is an important concept."

mudbug: How long can a society be governed by so much hate that they teach their kids to blow themselves up in an effort to blow up Israelis?

Not all Palestinians are radicals. However, continued occupation means that people either become radicals or make common cause with radicals. About half of Palestinians support a two-state solution, about the same as Israelis. About half of Palestinians also think Israel will eventually annex the West Bank and expel the Palestinian people.

mudbug: When Jews can be elevated to second class citizens in Palestine, they Palestine will have risen to apartheid status.

Currently, Palestinians are second-class citizens in the occupied territories.

#6.1.1.1.1.1.1.1 Zachriel on 2016-12-18 14:46 (Reply)

elections have consequences, loser.

#6.1.2 Will Bithers on 2016-12-17 13:32 (Reply)

elections have consequences, loser. next time you people win, if ever, you can appoint all the anti-semites you want to.

#6.1.3 Will Bithers on 2016-12-18 01:43 (Reply)

Zack-un-real is quite a joke,
He must have something good to smoke.
His posts are thin,
Rodham didn't win;
He needs to take another toke.

#7 tennesseered on 2016-12-17 11:48 (Reply)

He needs to take another toke...

and stop wasting his time, because there's a snowball's chance in hell that the intelligent readers of Maggie's Farm are going to be influenced by such tactics.

#7.1 LP on 2016-12-17 12:03 (Reply)

Skim that stuff. Good for a laugh now and then.

#7.1.1 BillH on 2016-12-17 13:02 (Reply)

BillH:

It is focking Hillary-ous. He should be doing standup or / on MSNBC news.

Best,

red

#7.1.1.1 tennesseered on 2016-12-17 14:52 (Reply)

QUOTE:

Obama Criticizes The Electoral College, Calls It ‘Vestige’ Of Earlier Version Of Gov’t

From Alexander Hamilton to Donald Trump: Electoral College history offers no room for wishful thinking

#8 Zachriel on 2016-12-17 12:09 (Reply)

no, loser, you've been caught lying again.

there never was a time when the present constitutional form of government did not include the EC.

charitably speaking, its possible you don't know much about the constitution, but I think you're lying.

try reading your sources sometime.

#8.1 Will Bithers on 2016-12-17 13:01 (Reply)

Interesting to see that the Zach Borg seems to have lightened up on the usual Lefty/Proggy ideological drivel.

Gotta win back some of those Catholics who think abortion is a constitutional right, eh?

#8.2 Old Codger on 2016-12-17 14:06 (Reply)

What If Consumers Just Want to Buy Junk Food?

Well, that's why we need Our Betters to instruct us in the way we should go. Left to our own devices, we'd have ridiculous market outcomes like 23 different kinds of deodorant.

#9 Jerryskids on 2016-12-17 12:15 (Reply)

Agreed.

Also, while the article touches on it, the commenters seem to be unaware that what constitutes a "healthy" diet is not definitively known.

In my opinion much "healthy" dieting is virtue signaling.

#9.1 Hamlet's Fool on 2016-12-18 09:32 (Reply)

"most Americans think Obama has already gone as president"--Including Salon: http://www.salon.com/2016/12/15/hey-president-donald-trump-do-you-know-where-your-bombs-are-falling/

As Iowahawk said, I don't have the heart to tell them . . . .

#10 Texan99 on 2016-12-17 12:48 (Reply)

In about a month it'll seem like he never WAS President if you listen to the FNM.

#10.1 Christopher B on 2016-12-17 15:15 (Reply)

Obama's press conference yesterday was one non-stop lie after another--fake news being told by a fake president. How he somehow made our economy better was some of the worst lying, difficult to stomach and one reporter got sick and had to be carried out. Of course, this is Obama's real economic legacy, the worst economic shape our country has been in in its history:

http://www.allenbwest.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/09/nine-charts.pdf

And in his presidency, in a mere 8 years by unsound foolish Keynesian spending and printing of money, he has doubled our debt to 20 trillion dollars, a figure that has bankrupted us and puts us in the worst economic shape of any country in the world except Japan. Even Greece is doing better economically than the U.S. at this point.

Unfortunately, Trump has inherited a horrible economic mess.

#11 Jim on 2016-12-17 14:14 (Reply)

Jim: http://www.allenbwest.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/09/nine-charts.pdf

Looking at the charts, it's almost as if something catastrophic happened in 2008.

#11.1 Zachriel on 2016-12-17 14:53 (Reply)

and nothing good has happened since.

#11.1.1 Christopher B on 2016-12-17 15:19 (Reply)

Christopher B: and nothing good has happened since.

Positives: Unemployment was nearing 10%, and is now less than 5%. GDP was collapsing, but has been growing steadily for seven years. Jobs added since the recession ended, 14 million. The stock market has grown steadily. Median home values have recovered. Median income has recovered.

#11.1.1.1 Zachriel on 2016-12-17 15:30 (Reply)

Truthy, Zach, and only if you believe Obama's fabricated numbers. For example, real median household income is still 2.3% below where it was when Obama took office. Unemployment is "low" only because millions have given up looking for work, the real unemployment rate as measured by former metrics is believed to be around 12.5%. Americans have lost every year Obama was in office. Overall, the economic record of Obama is the worst of ANY president in history.

#11.1.1.1.1 Jim on 2016-12-17 18:26 (Reply)

Jim: Truthy, Zach, and only if you believe Obama's fabricated numbers

No. The numbers we provided are based on the same statistical analysis used before Obama.

Jim: For example, real median household income is still 2.3% below where it was when Obama took office.

Real median household income
2008, 55376
2015, 56516

Still not as high as during the Clinton era, though, but you have to account for the Great Recession.

Jim: Unemployment is "low" only because millions have given up looking for work, the real unemployment rate as measured by former metrics is believed to be around 12.5%.

The metrics haven't changed. The typical number cited is the U-3. You have to compare apples-to-apples. U-3 has dropped from nearly 10% to less than 5%. The U-6 peaked at 17% during the Great Recession, and has since dropped to 9%.

Jim: Overall, the economic record of Obama is the worst of ANY president in history.

Hoover. Bush.

#11.1.1.1.1.1 Zachriel on 2016-12-18 10:17 (Reply)

The Democrats took power of Congress in 2007, shut down the Bush administration and began tanking the economy in 2007 which resulted in the government-created financial collapse of 2008. The Democrats unlawfully operated without even passing a budget for 6 years. Financial dereliction on a level never seen before in this country.

#11.1.2 Jim on 2016-12-17 18:14 (Reply)

Jim: The Democrats took power of Congress in 2007, shut down the Bush administration and began tanking the economy in 2007

That's funny. Congress can't typically pass laws without the President's signature. In any case, the bubble was already ripe for bursting in 2006.

#11.1.2.1 Zachriel on 2016-12-18 09:55 (Reply)

Conditions created by the Democrats.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cMnSp4qEXNM

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iW5qKYfqALE

The financial collapse was caused solely by the Democrats. As Bernie Sanders pointed out, they were all in the pockets of the banksters and getting huge payoffs. Two of the parties most responsible for causing the collapse were Fannie and Freddie, controlled by Clinton cronies--and we had to bail them out.

#11.1.2.1.1 Jim on 2016-12-18 13:52 (Reply)

Jim: Conditions created by the Democrats.

Democrats were a minority until 2007. As already pointed out, the bubble was already at its peak before then. You can argue Democrats were feckless, but Republicans were in charge during the buildup.

#11.1.2.1.1.1 Zachriel on 2016-12-18 14:08 (Reply)

The financial collapse was caused solely by the Democrats.

The hell it was. It's not a partisan issue and if you don't know that, you're not looking deep enough.

But, since rightism never learns and since rightism's greatest blind spot is it's utter conflict with founding principles and lectures in favor of its own modern statism, here we are.

#11.1.2.1.1.2 Ten on 2016-12-18 16:05 (Reply)

You really need to get a clue. Just because Z-Bot(s) is eternally wrong doesn't mean we can somehow blame Democrats for having an instantaneous effect that, sure as the dates of their office, nearly brought down an "economy".

#11.1.2.2 Ten on 2016-12-18 16:15 (Reply)

I can't speak to any other diagnoses, but Trump absolutely has ADD - I have it myself and listening to him speak: the leaps and jumps, the self-interruptions and far-reaching yet valid connections he makes - is like listening to my own interior monologue.

Here's the thing: people with ADD are problem-solvers. In school, where obedience and sitting still are the main things, ADD is only a disability. In the real world it is more of a double-edged sword, but it definitely can be an advantage if you are in a situation where a lot of problems tend to crop up.

Should be interesting to see what happens over the next four years.

#12 JM01 on 2016-12-17 15:06 (Reply)

This "popular vote" nonsense is really getting tiresome. President elect Trump won the popular vote nationally, it was the one state of California that put Hilliary over the top on votes. Minus California, Trump had more votes by several million, he won the popular national vote. The electoral college works exactly the way it is supposed to by not allowing a heavily populated state to dictate to the rest of the country. This election is a perfect example of why the electoral college will always be needed. Talk about disenfranchising voters. The lefties love that term, unless of course the tables are turned and it is "those voters", the ones that they do not agree wit.

Do the math Trump won the national vote, can you imagine the day that California gets to decide for the rest of the Country who our President is. There is also something called the Constitution, if you don't like the rules change them. You don' t win a football game by how many yards gained, you have to put points on the board, (credit to Brian Kilmeade for this analogy).

Longest temper tantrum in history, January 20th cannot come soon enough for me.

#13 pocono pam on 2016-12-18 02:48 (Reply)

pocono pam: President elect Trump won the popular vote nationally, it was the one state of California that put Hilliary over the top on votes.

Do you think that Californians are worth 3/5 of what people in Idaho are worth?

pocono pam: There is also something called the Constitution, if you don't like the rules change them.

You are correct. The Electoral College is a vestige from the time of slavery, and it may be time for reform.

#13.1 Zachriel on 2016-12-18 10:36 (Reply)

Do you think that Californians are worth 3/5 of what people in Idaho are worth?

-----------------------------------------

The latest figures seem to show 6.3% of the population of California comprises illegals who are in our country unlawfully and stealing jobs and benefits from Americans. But since there are no barriers to them voting (ditto in Washington State and Oregon-illegals in these states are automatically registered to vote when they get driver's licenses), vote results from California are seriously tainted by voter fraud and untrustworthy to begin with. Especially when Democrats up to and including Obama were actively encouraging illegals to vote, saying there would be no consequences. Hopefully the Justice Department under Trump will look into this.

I don't think at this point all votes from a state should be thrown out because of organized voter fraud, but vote results from California are certainly highly suspect.

#13.1.1 Jim on 2016-12-18 14:05 (Reply)

Jim: The latest figures seem to show 6.3% of the population of California comprises illegals who are in our country unlawfully and stealing jobs and benefits from Americans.

There is no evidence that millions of undocumented aliens voted in the election.

#13.1.1.1 Zachriel on 2016-12-18 14:09 (Reply)

Cut the racist crap. The only argument available when all else fails. Go to bed Zackie it's past your bedtime.

#13.1.2 pocono pam on 2016-12-19 01:34 (Reply)

pocono pam: Cut the racist crap.

Fact: Voters for president in California, a state with a large proportion of people of color, have only 3/5 the influence as voters in Idaho.

#13.1.2.1 Zachriel on 2016-12-19 09:10 (Reply)

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