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Friday, September 23. 2016

US killing, by race

Posted by The News Junkie in Hot News & Misc. Short Subjects at 12:00 | Comments (36) | Trackbacks (0)

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This article sums it up for me

http://thezman.com/wordpress/?p=8635
#1 ron on 2016-09-23 12:07 (Reply)
ron: http://thezman.com/wordpress/?p=8635: When young black women get worked up, their voices reach a pitch close to a dog whistle. It’s just high pitched echolalic babbling, that is intended to annoy, rather than convey information.

Yeah. Pretty much racist. That was your point, right?
#1.1 Zachriel on 2016-09-23 15:12 (Reply)
Your posts are stupid. Stop posting.
#1.1.1 RJ on 2016-09-23 22:14 (Reply)
Charlotte Riots: Corrosive Effects of Decades of Toxic Progressivism

http://www.thediplomad.com/2016/09/charlotte-riots-corrosive-effects-of.html
#1.1.1.1 Ron on 2016-09-24 00:42 (Reply)
Ron: Do most of these "protestors" really give a damn about "justice"? "Racism"? "Inequality"?

The majority of those marching are there to peacefully assemble for justice and against racism.
http://www.cnn.com/2016/09/23/us/charlotte-protests/
#1.1.1.1.1 Zachriel on 2016-09-24 09:08 (Reply)
The media keeps saying — as it has reported about every BLM riot before it — that Charlotte “started as a peaceful protest” and then became violent. But that’s like claiming a drive-by shooting “started as a peaceful jaunt through the city” until the passengers starting firing indiscriminately out of the driver’s side window.
#1.1.1.1.1.1 Ron on 2016-09-24 10:54 (Reply)
Ron: The media keeps saying — as it has reported about every BLM riot before it — that Charlotte “started as a peaceful protest” and then became violent.

Fourth night of Charlotte protests is largely peaceful

Oklahoma protests stay peaceful in wake of Tulsa shooting
#1.1.1.1.1.1.1 Zachriel on 2016-09-24 11:14 (Reply)
BLM is a terrorist organization. Keep drinking the koolaid

http://www.frontpagemag.com/fpm/264144/black-lives-matter-sells-black-slaves-left-daniel-greenfield
#1.1.1.1.1.1.1.1 Ron on 2016-09-24 12:15 (Reply)
Ron: BLM is a terrorist organization.

Your citation doesn't say anything about terror. It doesn't show that members of Black Lives Matter themselves don't care about black lives. It relies on made up facts, many of which are preposterous conspiracy theories. Finally, linking to a prominent voice in the right-wing echochamber does nothing to show that you are not caught in the right-wing echochamber.
#1.1.1.1.1.1.1.1.1 Zachriel on 2016-09-24 12:29 (Reply)
Read the whole article not just one sentence.
#1.1.2 Ron on 2016-09-24 00:25 (Reply)
Ron: Read the whole article not just one sentence.

Thanks ... Read it for the second time.

ron: http://thezman.com/wordpress/?p=8635: When young black women get worked up, their voices reach a pitch close to a dog whistle. It’s just high pitched echolalic babbling, that is intended to annoy, rather than convey information.

Yeah. Pretty much racist.
#1.1.2.1 Zachriel on 2016-09-24 09:09 (Reply)
The statistics don't matter if you can establish the lie.
#2 feeblemind on 2016-09-23 12:16 (Reply)
Facts don't matter...emotion rules. It is all about the narrative.
#3 rocdoctom on 2016-09-23 12:24 (Reply)
I don't know why I try to explain with words and numbers. The graph does sum it up.

BLM is especially focused on police shootings, which is a bit different. However, they tell a similar story. There is an embedded belief that because instances of Driving While Black occur - and I don't doubt for a moment that they do - that this scales up through all encounters of blacks and whites with the police.

The opposite is true. However much it feels that blacks are singled out, their neighborhoods are in fact under-policed. In a situation where both blacks and whites are present it may well be that blacks are singled out - but I can't find any numbers on that and we are relying entirely on impressions. At the macro level, however this is not true. Blacks and whites are stopped for small offenses at rates much more proportional to their numbers in society, but as the violence increases, the greater the disparity.

The capstone is homicide, as in the graph, and this is significant because you have to have a body for that crime; you can't make those up or make them go away*. Perhaps black boys fighting get arrested while white boys fighting get sent home with a threatening speech. That's hard to measure, but sure, that could be true. But you either have a body or you don't and given it's location, you usually know the race of the killer. If you find a white victim in Laconia, you might arrest the wrong white guy, but you're pretty sure it's not a black guy. Flip side for black victims in Washington Heights.
#4 Assistant Village Idiot (Link) on 2016-09-23 12:25 (Reply)
Oops.

*You can fudge them just a little by reclassifying deaths as accidental or suicides, but that gets tricky. It apparently does happen with homeless people that it would be easier just not to investigate. That's cruel to families, but it happens. However, that would just make the numbers worse, racially.
#4.1 Assistant Village Idiot (Link) on 2016-09-23 12:28 (Reply)
I think the graph is interesting, but I don't think it really addresses BLM. If you take the issue BLM SAYS is the issue, it is the police killing blacks. Of course, that complaint has changed from WHITE police killing unarmed innocent blacks to ANY police killing ANY blacks. It is a different situation when the police kill people needlessly than when a thug does.

Maybe a better graph would be how many white and black people who are killed by police disobey the police when they order them to raise their hands, stand away from the car, whatever.
#4.2 mudbug on 2016-09-23 13:10 (Reply)
Those numbers are going to be hard to find. Problems of definition, just for openers. Given human nature and 300,000,000 people, I have no doubt there are racist cops, that they pose an additional danger to African-Americans, that their supervisors don't weed them out well enough (though police unions may be part of that), and that we should fix that as best we can. There are also incompetent, bad-attitude cops who are a danger to everyone. However, there is nothing to indicate it's not already getting better year over year, and that the numbers are huge.

So why is it a big issue now, this year?
#4.2.1 Assistant Village Idiot (Link) on 2016-09-23 13:44 (Reply)
Those numbers might be hard to find, but there are better benchmarks than what is in that chart.

There is no doubt there are racists in police departments for some of the reasons you suggest. However, BLM is trafficking in the notion that there is institutional racism in the police forces and the justice system.

Why now? It is an election year. It is after almost eight years of the President who has supported the BLM narrative. Soros has money burning a hole in his pocket. There ar lots of reasons and none of them have anything to do with the facts.
#4.2.1.1 mudbug on 2016-09-23 13:58 (Reply)
There are about 100 times as many deaths from cancer as from murders. Does that mean murders are not a significant problem in the U.S?
#5 Zachriel on 2016-09-23 15:14 (Reply)
I'm straining to get a point of your post...

How's this: If black lives really matter, then shouldn't the most likely cause of their death demand a little of the attention?

They would except that's not the reason for BLM. They are an anti police organization (funded at least in part by George Soros) that wants discredit the criminal justice system in order to achieve certain political goals.
#5.1 mudbug on 2016-09-23 15:29 (Reply)
mudbug: If black lives really matter, then shouldn't the most likely cause of their death demand a little of the attention?

If black lives matter, then why aren't they working for a cure for cancer? And what about those people who do work for a cure for cancer. Why don't they protest the killings in Syria?

mudbug: They are an anti police organization (funded at least in part by George Soros) that wants discredit the criminal justice system in order to achieve certain political goals.

That's funny.

Try this. Explain what "Black lives matter" means, not to you, but to those who raise the issue.
#5.1.1 Zachriel on 2016-09-23 16:06 (Reply)
"Black lives DON'T matter" to those in the BLM movement/terrorist group. If they did, there would be a huge on-going movement in Chicago's South Side, aimed at curbing the record-setting violence and death; as well as a massive organized effort to change black cultural feelings toward the police as community protectors.

All that matters to BLM is the narrative: Blacks killed by police grant the black underclass license to riot and loot! As well as providing a great wedge issue in American society for leveraging more treasure from whites to assuage a victim culture which does not wish to escape its victimhood!
#5.1.1.1 B48 on 2016-09-23 19:11 (Reply)
To people in the "movement" it means they're tired of being black and they hate me because I'm not black. And they don't want to get shot (like I would) when they wave a gun at a cop.

I can't help them with any of those problems.

I do think they should have their own cops and their own laws in their own part of town -- and so should we. That seems fair.

Obviously we'll be the ones writing all the checks to pay for it, but we are already anyhow.
#5.1.1.2 Wilbur Hassenfus on 2016-09-23 20:06 (Reply)
To achieve what political goals?

What is the endgame? That, I think, is a very interesting question.
#5.1.2 ugly on 2016-09-23 18:57 (Reply)
Z: If black lives matter, then why aren't they working for a cure for cancer? And what about those people who do work for a cure for cancer. Why don't they protest the killings in Syria?

What are you talking about? Did you remember your meds?

Z: That's funny.

What's funny?

Z: Try this. Explain what "Black lives matter" means, not to you, but to those who raise the issue.

You mean the ones who chant "Pigs in a blanket, fry 'em like bacon!"?
#6 mudbug on 2016-09-23 17:17 (Reply)
She's a troll, don't feed the trolls
#6.1 anon on 2016-09-23 21:09 (Reply)
mudbug: What are you talking about?

The chart in the original post compares the number of black homicides due to whites vs those due to blacks. Because the number of intraracial homicides are greater in number than interracial homicides, the implication, supported in the comments, is that blacks should only be concerned about intraracial homicides and not interracial homicides. By the same logic, far more blacks die from cancer than homicide, they should only be concerned about cancer deaths, and not homicides. It turns out that people can be concerned about homicides, and cancer too.
#6.2 Zachriel on 2016-09-24 09:24 (Reply)
Z: Try this. Explain what "Black lives matter" means, not to you, but to those who raise the issue.

B48: "Black lives DON'T matter" to those in the BLM movement/terrorist group.

Wilbur Hassenfus: To people in the "movement" it means they're tired of being black and they hate me because I'm not black.

mudbug: You mean the ones who chant "Pigs in a blanket, fry 'em like bacon!"?

This is very illustrative. The inability to envision another person's point of view, the outright refusal to consider that someone may think differently, is the essence of the closed mindedness of the right wing echochamber. The result is that demonstrable facts are rejected if they don't comport with one's preconceptions. Truthiness prevails.

The biggest problem with this blindness is that not only can't you model another person's point of view, but you can't objectively evaluate your own views because that requires a skeptical distance that is lacking.
#7 Zachriel on 2016-09-24 09:28 (Reply)
Zach calls out those who cite real world statistics as RAAACISTS:

"Black America does not have a race problem. It ain’t honkies robbing, looting and killing in the ghetto. They don’t have a cop problem. The cops shoot fewer black offenders than white offenders. They don’t have a gun problem either. Black America has a black guy problem. They have far too many black guys robbing, looting and killing, almost always doing so at the expense of blacks. They won’t let me fix that problem, so stop demanding I feel bad about it. I’m done. I’m all blacked out."

Typical Proggy point of view: "Lalalala, FACTS, lalalalala I can't hear you! Lalalala!"
#7.1 B48 on 2016-09-24 11:21 (Reply)
B48: Zach calls out those who cite real world statistics as RAAACISTS

"'Black lives DON'T matter' to those in the BLM movement" is not true, must less a statistic.

QUOTE:
Black Lives Matter: Black Lives Matter is an ideological and political intervention in a world where Black lives are systematically and intentionally targeted for demise. It is an affirmation of Black folks’ contributions to this society, our humanity, and our resilience in the face of deadly oppression.

Even if you think the argument that blacks should be more concerned with black-on-black crime is valid, that doesn't mean it represents what members of Black Lives Matter think. Even a cursory look at the Black Lives Matter indicates otherwise.
#7.1.1 Zachriel on 2016-09-24 11:36 (Reply)
Many Stalinists were just people trying to get by and letting the People have a voice. Movements are not judged that way.
#7.1.1.1 Assistant Village Idiot (Link) on 2016-09-24 16:04 (Reply)
Assistant Village Idiot: Many Stalinists were just people trying to get by and letting the People have a voice. Movements are not judged that way.

Not necessarily the best example, but let's take communism more broadly. Communists were misguided, but that doesn't mean we can't try and understand why people became communists. Indeed, if you can't understand why, then you can't mount a convincing argument against communism. Simply mouthing platitudes, such as communists were bad people who wanted to do bad things, is not accurate or convincing.
#7.1.1.1.1 Zachriel on 2016-09-24 17:29 (Reply)
I can't parse the title of that graph. Does "the murder's race" refer to the race of the killer, or the race of the person killed?
#8 jdgalt on 2016-09-24 21:26 (Reply)
Since people have brought up OK v. NC, also note that OK was a white cop in a solidly Trump state, while NC is a black cop in a battleground state. There's more to gain politically by "protesting" in NC no matter the circumstances.
#9 Rock on 2016-09-25 09:24 (Reply)
Rock: Since people have brought up OK v. NC, also note that OK was a white cop in a solidly Trump state, while NC is a black cop in a battleground state. There's more to gain politically by "protesting" in NC no matter the circumstances.

Protesters in both cities are angry, but the level of suspicion is much higher in Charlotte. Police shot an unarmed black in 2013, Jonathan Ferrell, which has left lingering distrust of police in the black community.
#9.1 Zachriel on 2016-09-25 09:50 (Reply)
Rioters are terrorists

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MDzsE5heUuA
#10 Ron on 2016-09-25 15:52 (Reply)

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