Maggie's Farm

Most of the article is just an extended ad hominem, as indicated by the title itself. The few specifics provided are not particularly good examples.


It was hardly a mere opinion column, but pointed to specific differences between Carter's ban on Iranian citizens (excluding those who had humanitarian reasons) to Trump's proposed unilateral ban on Muslims. Her verdict: MIXED


Again, that is simply not the case. The article provides significant background, including context from Clinton's comment, in which it is clear she was referring to the military action to overthrow Qaddafi.


It is accurate to say that Mateen registered as a Democrat ten years ago, however, that doesn't necessarily say much about his political views today — or even then. In any case, her verdict was MIXED.


Unnamed sources can provide important information, however, the sources seem to indicate it was more due to reliance on "credible" news sources. Facebook says that statistical analysis indicates no political bias in articles that have appeared on their news feed.


Her statements on this were accurate, and she provided long excerpts from Clinton's speech to support her position.

mudbug: Somehow I think if he had registered as a Republican, it would have said a lot about his political views today.

Only if you could show some sort of connection between his previous registration and his current ideology, and that his current ideology were somehow connected to his being a Republican. That is doubtful in the case of Islamic extremism.

mudbug: Democrats are falling all over themselves to blame guns instead of the fact that he was a Muslim who was brought up to hate gays, Jews, the West, etc. so they can continue to support Obama's importation of unvetted, and will likely be unintegrated Muslims.

While his violent ideology was certainly colored by his religion, the availability of guns with large magazines and a high-rate of fire made his actions much more lethal than they otherwise may have been.

An explosive vest is highly unlikely as it requires infrastructure and access, and he was working essentially alone.

mudbug: That's not at all necessary.

Some people will say anything. You said "it would say a lot", meaning that there would be an evidentiary link, as opposed to some minority saying stuff.

mudbug: And who does "us all" refer to

His fellow citizens, adding "we will stand united, as Americans, to protect our people, and defend our nation, and to take action against those who threaten us."

mudbug: and what "change" should we have the courage for?

"The FBI is appropriately investigating this as an act of terrorism... We will not give in to fear or turn against each other. Instead, we will stand united, as Americans, to protect our people, and defend our nation, and to take action against those who threaten us."
https://www.whitehouse.gov/the-press-office/2016/06/12/remarks-president-mass-shooting-orlando

mudbug: He's not talking about Muslims here.

He was talking to all Americans.

mudbug: There's no evidence that he would have given up on the idea of killing gays (or anybody) if it were harder to get a gun.

It would probably have limited the lethality of his actions.

mudbug: We recently found out that a substantial portion of people in the Bronx apparently believe that Republicans are responsible for Orlando.

A case can be made that allowing people to buy rapid fire weapons with large magazines is a contributing factor. However, you didn't provide any actual poll data, so it's hard to tell what you are claiming.

McCain blamed Obama policies, even though the perpetrator was a natural born citizen acting alone. Policies can be contributing factors, even if the proximate cause was choices made by Mateen.

mudbug: Yes, people will say anything, but prominent news personalities equate not supporting gay marriage with wanting to murder gays

Again, you don't provide specifics, so it's hard to tell what you are claiming. It can be argued that a toxic environment can encourage those on the fringes to act out in a violent manner. If, for instance, you claim society is being poisoned by homosexuals, Jews, Tutsis, whomever, then people may take that as justification for violence.

"In fact in Romans 1 Paul affirms that this particular sin is worthy of death," Swanson says. "The Old and New Testament, I believe both speak with authority and we outta receive it." — Pastor Kevin Swanson, host of "Freedom 2015".

mudbug: Democratic politicians and prominent entertainers on the left, etc. blame the NRA and Republican politicians who believe the 2nd Amendment means what it says.

The 2nd Amendment has been subject to various interpretations since its inception. Do you think the government can limit automatic weapons? How about shoulder-fired missiles? How about licensing and insurance?

mudbug: And as far as who he was directing his comments to, he never mentioned anything about Muslims, who generally ascribe to the same ideology as Marteen.

In the U.S., for instance, about 40% of Muslims support gay marriage, so that is hardly "the same ideology".
http://thinkprogress.org/lgbt/2015/04/22/3649935/poll-american-muslims-supportive-sex-marriage-white-evangelical-christians/

mudbug: What if he had stolen a similar rifle?

He could have stolen a fully automatic weapon, but they are rare due to legal restrictions. See how that works?

mudbug: In fact, given the confided area, he probably could have killed as many people with a pistol.

It's the not length of the barrel, but the rate of fire, the size of the magazine, and the time it takes to switch out the magazine, that makes the force overwhelming in a crowd.

The countervailing concerns are the ability to defend oneself, and reasonable limitations on individual firepower. There is no practical barrier to finding a solution that balances both concerns. The only barrier is political.

mudbug: According to a Pew poll, 51% of US Muslims and 60% of US Muslims under the age of 30 prefer Sharia Law.

People can live under Sharia without it replacing secular laws, just like Catholics live under the Catholic law without it replacing secular laws. Nor is there a single Sharia law, but many interpretations.

mudbug: Many New Yorkers blame Republicans for Orlando (https://youtu.be/lTSxR-BdLbY).

So not a poll.

mudbug: The Daily Kos says that Republicans are directly responsible for Orlando (http://www.dailykos.com/story/2016/6/12/1537757/-Why-Republicans-are-DIRECTLY-RESPONSIBLE-for-the-events-in-Orlando)

Some-body on Daily Kos says Republicans are directly responsible. The senior Senator from Arizona says Obama is personally responsible. See the difference there?

mudbug: So I think 2A does protect my right to a machine gun.

If the Second Amendment is meant to be used to defend against a rogue government, the presumably the right to use any handheld weapon would be protected. Is that correct?

mudbug: Machine guns aren't that rare in the Mexican cartels and they are made basically by hand in Pakistan.

But they are rare in the U.S., and rarely used in criminal activities. Wonder why that is ...

mudbug: The fact that there was nobody who could shoot back was critical to the high body count.

That is incorrect. An off-duty police officer, who was working at the club, immediately exchanged fire with the gunman.

mudbug: According to a Pew poll, 51% of US Muslims and 60% of US Muslims under the age of 30 prefer Sharia Law.

Pew? If so, we'd like to see a citation. You're probably thinking of a non-scientific poll from known conspiracy mongers, the Center for Security Policy.

the government should use a firing squad to “blow their brains out.”
http://www.rawstory.com/2016/06/god-will-finish-the-job-texas-pastor-prays-for-injured-orlando-survivors-to-die/

Does that mean it is correct to say that Christians as a group want to kill gays? Of course not. These people represent only an extreme view within Christianity. It's toxic, and it can lead to violence, but it's not representative. Similarly, there is a toxic strain of Islam, but it's not representative of all Muslims. While homosexuals experience discrimination in nearly all countries, it is legal in Indonesia, Jordan, and Turkey.

Christians: Gays should be killed.
http://www.alternet.org/story/150899/how_american_evangelism_triggered_the_murder_of_gays_overseas

"In fact in Romans 1 Paul affirms that this particular sin is worthy of death," Swanson says. "The Old and New Testament, I believe both speak with authority and we outta receive it." — Pastor Kevin Swanson, host of "Freedom 2015".

JJM: Americans always equate Christianity with Protestant evangelicals

Most Christians are not evangelicals. Most evangelicals do not call for the death of homosexuals.

JJM: I take it as a personal offence when you imply "Christians" somehow want gays killed.

It's no more offensive than saying "Muslims" want gays killed. In the U.S., for instance, about 40% of Muslims support gay marriage — a higher percentage that evangelicals.

A majority of Jews have voted for Democrats since 1920, when a sizable plurality voted for Debs, a socialist. Asians, on the other hand, moved to the Democrats only after Clinton became president. That seemingly undercuts Troy and Chen's suggestion.

Time to face facts about the Republican Party.