We are a commune of inquiring, skeptical, politically centrist, capitalist, anglophile, traditionalist New England Yankee humans, humanoids, and animals with many interests beyond and above politics. Each of us has had a high-school education (or GED), but all had ADD so didn't pay attention very well, especially the dogs. Each one of us does "try my best to be just like I am," and none of us enjoys working for others, including for Maggie, from whom we receive neither a nickel nor a dime. Freedom from nags, cranks, government, do-gooders, control-freaks and idiots is all that we ask for.
the modern loons who casually equate FEMA with the Nazis really underestimate the brutality of the Nazis. there's some strange fantasy going on here.
Armed Jewish resistance in Poland, France, or any occupied territory wouldn't have been crushed out of hand and savage reprisals against the host population would have been common. think Lidice, but on a massive scale.
Donny "The Bear Jew" Donowitz
I think the idea of massacres and massive gun battles and blood in the streets as opposed to being quietly marched to rail cars in the darkness might have had an effect on the way things played out is a reasonable supposition.
What was pathetic was Wolf Blitzer's complete inability to come to terms with the argument Carson was making, as if it not only had never occurred to him before, but was a notion he simply couldn't take in.
Does anyone think that armed Jewish civilians could have faced down the Nazi war machine? No. But they story of the Holocaust would have been much different without the images of millions of Jews peacefully and hopelessly boarding trains to destruction. For one thing, their neighbors would have found it more difficult to pretend they didn't know what was happening.
This is so intuitively obvious I simply cannot fathom the argument against it. There is a reason that the Nazi's instituted gun control (registration then confiscation) before they began their tyranny. There is a reason why Russia confiscated guns before they started to purge their population.
If it wouldn't have changed the trajectory of history, and it's not clear that it wouldn't have had some impact since the Jews would have had allies in the general population, it would at least give them the opportunity to die fighting than in a gas chamber.
this is an issue whose lesson is whatever one needs to mean.
if someone is against gun control, he can spin it that way.
these are the historical facts:
while the Jews had allies even in Germany, the Nazis were aided by anti-Semitic collaborators everywhere.
Nazi retaliation against armed resistance could result in hundreds killed for every Nazi taken out. google "Lidice" for one example. ask yourself if this retaliation on a wide scale for a Jews shooting at Gestapo trying to arrest them would encourage or discourage covert aid to Jews.
if you're curious about the outcome of shotguns vs the army, read up on the Warsaw Ghetto uprising.
Jews so inclined could and did join organized Resistance movements in any occupied country, including Germany itself. in france, one percent of the population was Jewish, who contributed 20% of the Resistance membership. so its not like we were sitting around waiting for a time traveller from 21st century USA for a lecture on the Second Amendment.
there's this persistent myth, and a stupid one, that the story of the Jews/Holocaust/gun confiscation is somehow relevant to the purpose of the Second Amendment. its not. by 1938, the Third Reich was a full blown dictatorship, with the Hitler in complete control of the government. by 1938, nothing short of WW2 was going to save the Jews.
Donny "The Bear Jew" Donowitz
"Finally, with regard to disarming the Jew population, there is no dispute that the
Nazis did disarm Jewish persons aggressively—of all firearms, as well as “truncheons or
stabbing weapons. The Minister of the Interior, Frick, enacted Regulations Against
Jew’s Possession of Weapons on November 11, 1938, which effectively deprived all
Jewish persons of the right to possess firearms or other weapons. It was a regulation
prohibiting Jewish persons from having any dangerous weapon—not just guns. Under
the regulations, Jewish persons “are prohibited from acquiring, possessing, and carrying
firearms and ammunition, as well as truncheons or stabbing weapons. Those now
possessing weapons and ammunition are at once to turn them over to the local police
authority. Moreover, prior to that, the German police and Nazis used the 1938
firearms law as an excuse to disarm Jewish persons. In Breslau, for instance, as Halbrook
reports, the city police chief decreed the seizure of all firearms from Jewish persons on
the ground that “the Jewish population ‘cannot be regarded as trustworthy’”—using the
language from the 1928 and 1938 firearms laws."
This is from http://www.law.uchicago.edu/files/files/67-harcourt.pdf, an article purporting to REFUTE the arguments of the NRA and others that the Nazis were pro-gun control and that Jews having guns would have at least limited the impact of the holocaust. It rambles on about alot of unrelated matters, but the argument the author appears to be making is that German gun regulations date from before the Nazis came to power and that the Nazis actually liberalized them. Which is an argument that could be made but it doesn't refute the argument that Jews were specifically targeted as described above. So Carson and the NRA are correct about the disarmament of Jews in Germany - and correct too that gun registration would mean that the Obama administration would have the name, location and types of guns owned by the American populace. Scary thought, although I do not believe that most gun owners would comply.
Armed Jews (and others the Nazi called "undesirable") might not have completely stopped the Nazis quest to rid the world of folks they didn't want to live; but, can anyone really believe that the outcome would NOT have been different if the Nazis had more resistance?
If armed resistance from a "civilian" population saved even a fraction of the lives the Nazis murdered, wouldn't it have been worth it?