Maggie's FarmWe are a commune of inquiring, skeptical, politically centrist, capitalist, anglophile, traditionalist New England Yankee humans, humanoids, and animals with many interests beyond and above politics. Each of us has had a high-school education (or GED), but all had ADD so didn't pay attention very well, especially the dogs. Each one of us does "try my best to be just like I am," and none of us enjoys working for others, including for Maggie, from whom we receive neither a nickel nor a dime. Freedom from nags, cranks, government, do-gooders, control-freaks and idiots is all that we ask for. |
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Wednesday, September 30. 2015Wednesday morning linksIs empathy overrated? I never trust expressions of empathy Almost All US Temperature Data Used In Global Warming Models Is Estimated or Altered The Stunning "Explanation" An Insurance Company Just Used To Boost Health Premiums By 60% "It's Not Right To Make A Profit on Public Land" How to fix our educational system ‘Affordable’ Housing: Karma’s a You-Know-What Pope’s World and the Real World The New Rich -- Living the High Life Through Your Non-Profit Elizabeth Warren Goes Crazy for Black Lives Matter President Donald Trump Holds First News Conference
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Sadistic empath sounds like another name for progressives. They care deeply, then the guillotines come out.
The majority are men of military age...
Defeated tribes moving west gave the Roman Empire a lot of trouble. Maybe the stress and toil of traveling on the road hardened them. Or made them more determined to win a new place for themselves. The modern Europeans may think that countries disappearing under a wave of migrating nomads is ancient history but they may be mistaken. People like Obama and Merkel are the bane of Civilization. while the western empire was doomed anyway, the problem with barbarians began when some were invited in and settled as federates to help defend the by now obviously indefensible frontier. the frontier collapsed when the germanic tribes formed large confederations (visigoths, ostrogoths, etc.) and migrated westward as a result of pressure from invading huns. at the very end, the Franks appeared and remained as the last invaders standing (the Merovingian empire).
Europe is a fusion of western Roman, Gallo-Roman, germanic and Roman Catholic cultures, more or less stable from the 7th century on. As I remember from my High School history (written and taught before political correctness), the Huns pushed the first barbarian tribes into the Roman Empire about 376 AD. That wasn't the killing blow but started to put more pressure on Rome than it was happy about. The decision to employ some barbarian tribes to fight for them came after that.
Rome wasn't built or conquered in a day, but then Rome was a lot more durable than Europe is today after several generations of hiding behind American steel. QUOTE: Almost All US Temperature Data Used In Global Warming Models Is Estimated or Altered Of course. Data wasn't collected for the purpose of climate science until recently, so it is necessary to use statistical methods to extract trends from incomplete data. Multiple methodologies working from the raw data have determined the same global trend. The Earth's surface is warming. Unfortunately, the effects of climate change will be inconsistent across the globe. Some areas will become dryer, some wetter. Many ecosystems will be adversely affected. Sea level rise will threaten vast areas of inhabited lands. Waves of migration will put strains on political systems. Humans will adapt, but not without significant cost.
just like the weather. or day and night.
we demand that the UN do something. it's too hot here, another 100F day. I'm ready for some Comin' Ice Age. It's true, it's true, the crown has made it clear The climate must be perfect all the year A law was made a distant moon ago here July and August cannot be too hot And there's a legal limit to the snow here in Camelot The winter is forbidden till December And exits March the second on the dot By order, summer lingers through September in Camelot Camelot: Camelot I know it sounds a bit bizarre But in Camelot: Camelot That's how conditions are The rain may never fall till after sundown By eight, the morning fog must disappear In short, there's simply not a more congenial spot For happily ever after in than here in Camelot Camelot: Camelot I know it gives a person pause But in Camelot: Camelot Those are the legal laws The snow may never slush upon the hillside By nine p.m. the moonlight must appear In short, there's simply not a more congenial spot For happily ever after in than here in Camelot Humans can have some limited impact on CO2 levels, but not without significant cost.
Also, the link between affecting CO2 levels and improving climate is wobbly. All in all, it's quite murky whether the proposed amelioration game is worth the candle. I realize you disagree and may believe it's clear as day. Sadly, everyone who's expected to pay heavily for the amelioration will need to agree, not just take your word for it. Texan99: everyone who's expected to pay heavily for the amelioration will need to agree,
Just a significant majority. Texan99: not just take your word for it. That's what science is all about, providing objective answers to empirical questions.
#3.1.1.2.1
Zachriel
on
2015-09-30 13:30
(Reply)
what are the objective answers raised to the question of the 40 year history of failed climate predictions by the warmal coldists?
you people haven't predicted anything that hasn't been contradicted by another of your predictions or was an outright failure.
#3.1.1.2.1.1
Donny "The Bear Jew" Donowitz
on
2015-09-30 13:40
(Reply)
"That's what science is all about, providing objective answers to empirical questions."
That's what science is about, I agree. The cost-effectiveness of efforts to reduce CO2 is not, unfortunately, an empirical question with an objective answer--even among people who agree on the question of warming to date.
#3.1.1.2.1.2
Texan99
on
2015-09-30 15:29
(Reply)
Texan99: The cost-effectiveness of efforts to reduce CO2 is not, unfortunately, an empirical question with an objective answer--even among people who agree on the question of warming to date.
Cost estimates have wide error margins, but as humans built the energy infrastructure, there's no practical reason they can't update it over the next generation.
#3.1.1.2.1.2.1
Zachriel
on
2015-09-30 16:34
(Reply)
But changes MUST be made NOW, to SAVE the EARTH.
#3.1.1.2.1.2.1.1
Sam L.
on
2015-09-30 19:29
(Reply)
Objective would be nice. We don't trust that, given calls that "Climate Deniers" should be jailed, fined, ignored...
#3.1.1.2.1.3
Sam L.
on
2015-09-30 19:28
(Reply)
Of course when you process the data to get a desired outcome, only a fool wouldn't manage to get his desired outcome.
In the end you just conceded that this isn't science, it's a narrative. Likely a fictional one. DrTorch: Of course when you process the data to get a desired outcome, only a fool wouldn't manage to get his desired outcome.
The trend in the data can be objectively determined. The historical method is by homogenization to remove discontinuities, but there are a number of independent statistical tests that confirm the overall trend, such as Kriging. See Rohde et al., Berkeley Earth Temperature Averaging Process, Geoinformatics | Geostatistics 2013. DrTorch: In the end you just conceded that this isn't science, it's a narrative. Actually, you seem to be the one relying on narrative, ignoring statistical analysis of the data without regard to the specifics or methodology. You've called out those studies before, and they were shown to be in error. You waste everyone's time w/ your repetitious appeals to flawed references and flawed logic.
DrTorch: You've called out those studies before, and they were shown to be in error.
This is where you provide the scientific citation showing the source of the error.
#3.2.1.1.1
Zachriel
on
2015-09-30 12:56
(Reply)
I'm trying to imagine if the data "climate change deniers" had been altered or estimated (certainly in the direction that bolstered their argument) what the response to that would be from warmists such as yourself...
That would depend on the specifics of the data and methodology. If you have a citation, we'll take a look.
It was a rhetorical question since those who are skeptical of the theory of AGW (now Climate Change - when was there a time when the climate didn't change?) cite actual temperatures such as satellite data, rather than estimating and using statistical analysis which are not actual temperatures.
mudbug: It was a rhetorical question since those who are skeptical of the theory of AGW (now Climate Change - when was there a time when the climate didn't change?) cite actual temperatures such as satellite data, rather than estimating and using statistical analysis which are not actual temperatures.
Here ya go. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Satellite_temperature_measurements#/media/File:Satellite_Temperatures.png Satellite MSU data only goes back to 1978, do not measure temperature directly, and have their own problems with consistency. Nor does the surface data go away because you don't like it. There has been a great deal of research into the instrumental data, and they all show a warming trend.
#3.3.1.1.1
Zachriel
on
2015-09-30 13:41
(Reply)
As Mark Twain said, "There are lies, damn lies, and statistics."
As Mark Twain might have said about the whole AGW conspiracy;
It is illegal. It is illogical. It is inhuman. And it is Un-American!... It's French. QUOTE: Z-man: One hundred years from now, if civilization permits a looking back at our age, people will wonder how the leaders of today let wave after wave of migrants wash away European civilization. European civilization is made up of wave after wave of migrants. Also a lot of waves that were crushed, turned back, or simply slaughtered. Moors, Ottomans, Mongols, and Saracens were all booted out of Europe.
NJSoldier: Also a lot of waves that were crushed, turned back, or simply slaughtered. Moors, Ottomans, Mongols, and Saracens were all booted out of Europe.
All left an imprint in Europe, both culturally and genetically. "Elizabeth Warren Goes Crazy for Black Lives Matter"
"Violent crime in places like Boston and D.C. is a black thing." Studies have shown that when crime committed by Americans of European descent that our crime rates are lower than Canada's. Crime in America, especially violent crime is a "black thing" or a "Mexican thing" and more and more it is becoming an "immigrant thing". Black rape of white women is epidemic but white rape of black women is virtually non-existent. Illegal aliens alone kill more people in America every year than Americans who died in the entire Gulf War. Of course Elizabeth (fauxcohontas) Warren jumps on the whole racism bandwagon. This faux issue of racism and mistreatment is why she exists and is in congress. It is a good scam, mostly pulled off by blacks, latinos and muslims but it works. It gets them free stuff and power. As long as we allow this phony issue to work it will continue and get worse. I'm really sick of young people in their teens and 20s wax on about how they are going to work for a 'non-profit' when they are done with college. There is nothing morally better about working for a non-profit company. And, in fact, I see it as less moral when you are living off of people's donations and tax money, rather than producing a product.
Did you know they even have undergraduate and graduate degrees specifically focused on having a career in the non-profit world? Ugh. Listen up, young 'uns, you are no better than anyone else if you decide to work for a non-profit, so stop wailing over the idea that for-profit companies are inherently 'evil.' For-profit companies have created jobs providing products and services people actually WANT to pay money for. There is nothing wrong with that. :-P I don't see how a blanket condemnation of non-profits or a glorification of for-profits is useful for any purpose. I'm not even certain you know what non-profits do.
I am a director of a charitable non-profit, we don't "produce" anything, instead, we hire and pay for contractors to do home modifications to elderly or disabled who fall within a certain economic parameters. this is a typical model for a charitable non-profit. the opportunities for fiscal abuse of the non-profit status are well known, but, i believe, over stated by the press because it sells better than stories about ordinary charity. I am convinced, as always, that people who bitch about charity do so because they are looking for reasons excuses not to be charitable. Not impressed, Donny. MissT makes a point. Not-for-profits have grown by leaps and bounds since WWII, their abuses hidden by complicated tax laws and great public relations for "doing good"..
Back in 1970, one n-f-p serving minority children through the school system was paying its director what-would-be-today almost #1 million/year in salary and benefits, but failed to pay its payroll taxes for lack of funds, causing all sorts of mayhem for board members. It benefitted from the largesse of a few corporations and foundations who really didn't look into the outcome, which was negligible. Sadly, it still exists today instead of being called to address its major flaws. "Let's do it for the children, maimed and elderly" while sucking up the money to pay salaries is getting very old. I'm waiting for some quantifiable evidence of your claim, or hers.
I agree.
The whole concept of a nfp is misleading. It conjures up an image that the people working for the nfp are either working for free or earning less than those at a for profit company doing similar work. NFP has simply become a tax classification that tilts the playing field and is ripe for abuse. Is empathy overrated?
I never trust expressions of empathy I am sensitive to your pain. INSURANCE PREMIUMS
Trade-offs are everywhere! Prior to ObamaScare, you had a choice - you could buy insurance or not buy insurance. Because rational people would weigh the cost of purchasing insurance versus the risk going without, insurance companies had to negotiate premiums in a marketplace that reflected the possibility that people would opt to go without if the premium did not make financial sense. Today, the scale is tipped. When weighing the cost of the premium versus the risk of not buying insurance, the buyer must not only consider the risk of remaining uninsured, but also Obama's financial penalty for not paying a premium to his insurance company bedfellows. Thus, it is reasonable to expect that premiums will increase by an amount approaching the penalty, i.e. equilibrium. The insurance companies know that Obama(Doesn't)Care has a gun to the head of every American forcing them to buy insurance at whatever price they charge. This is what happens when leftist policies are put into play. FIXING OUR EDUCATIONAL PUBLIC SCHOOL SYSTEM Even if it provided an education, it's costs are too high. That it focuses on political indoctrination while ignoring education makes it that much worse. Public school employees and their unions have one goal - and it's not educating our kids. It's stuffing their wallets and leftist politicos are happy to participate in the charade as long as the teachers push an agenda aimed at dumbing down bright young mind and creating more mindless Democrat voters. NON-PROFITS: The New Rich The concept of a "non-profit" organization is flawed. All organization, corporations, etc. are made up of individual people. None of these people operate on a non-profit basis. That is, all of the individuals are paid for whatever it is they do (or are supposed to be doing). Take for example Adventist Health Systems, a "non-profit" hospital chain based in Florida that was recently found guilty and fined by the federal government for giving kickbacks ($$$) to doctors in return for their referrals for high priced hospital services. Their join-profit status allows their corporate structure to avoid millions of dollars in corporate taxes so that these dollars can be used elsewhere - as in for higher salaries for their executives. A search shows at least 10 executives being paid in excess of $1,000,000.00 with the CFO receiving over $3,000,000.00. These are not the salaries we think of when we imaging charitable religious organizations. They are the salaries we associate with top executives at large US corporations. Clearly, these folks are not "non-profit"! Many, perhaps most, non-profits are used by for profit people who abuse the tax advantages in order to enhance their profits and line their pockets. Many, perhaps most, non-profits are used by for profit people who abuse the tax advantages in order to enhance their profits and line their pockets.
source? take your public flogging for false claims. don't run away yet. Run away? I work for a living while you evidently troll the internet while pretending to direct something?
As for my sources, first start by reading the US tax code to understand what it means to be a "non-profit" organization - for purposes of my discussion, I have clearly implied organizations that are organized under US law as tax exempt (a bit of a misnomer) organizations. I did so when forming and organizing a 501(c)(3) organization myself. I have also worked or consulted for several "non-profit" hospitals. If you take the time to look at non-profit hospitals and search the appropriate records, such as their annual 990 returns, you'll see that most non-profits are run by people making very large profits. This includes hospitals and many "charitable" organizations such as the American Heart Assn, American Cancer Soc, the Red Cross, etc. Many of these organizations also play games with their donations and budgets to make it look like they are spending more of their income (donations) on charitable services versus administrative expenses than they actually are. Here's an example form Forbes: http://www.forbes.com/sites/williampbarrett/2012/02/22/charities-fudge-their-fundraising-costs-shocking/ I once helped with a fund raiser for Am. Cancer Soc. Donors were asked by ACS reps to make their donations for set up expenses payable to the individual reps rather than the ACS. When I asked a rep the reason, she stated that it was so that a higher proportion of donations showed up as going to services rather than admin costs. When also stated that it was OK to make the checks payable to the individuals until I challenged her and then she admitted that the IRS could deny such a deduction. As to executives at non-profit hospitals making huge salaries, I have no doubt that many are talented and hard working. The issue that I have is that using non-profit status to reduce one's corporate tax when the corporate profits are flowing thru to for profit individuals means that these so-called non-profits have an unfair advantage over admitted for profit organizations that operate for like purposes. PS - I see that you are a director of a "non-profit" organization. Do YOU draw a salary? Are you working for no profit, i.e. no income. If so, you're not the problem I'm talking about. But let's take my point a bit further. As a non-profit, your organization has certain tax advantages over a similar for profit organization that provides the same service, namely your organization's "excess" income - what a for profit company calls profits - for a year is taxed at a far lower rate than the retained income of a for profit company. Also, YOUR salary is not considered to be profit, at least for the organization. It's considered a corporate expense. But please don't tell me that your salary (if you don't receive one, extrapolate to the similar non-profits where the director does) is not a profit for you, i.e. YOU are not non-profit. Capisce? Here's the crux of the matter, Donald.
1. The farther any organization or government is away from the people who pay for that organization, the easier and more likely it is for that organization or government to misuse and abuse its "income". Corollary: It's harder for citizens in Anytown USA to keep track of what the federal govt is doing with their money and harder for them to do anything about it than for them to watch and control the spending by their local government. 2. Obtaining non-profit status from the IRS allows an organization certain competitive advantages. 3. Small local non-profits (in general) are less likely to get away with abusing the system than large national non-profits, but both extremes do happen. Regarding insurance coverage for healthcare, how poorly this was addressed and bespeaks to the future:
http://nypost.com/2015/09/29/obamacares-latest-victims-100000-new-yorkers-and-taxpayers-everywhere/ "Almost All US Temperature Data Used In Global Warming Models Is Estimated or Altered"
Almost all the U.S. data is taken from a NOAA monitoring station on the Big Island of Hawaii. It is located next to an active volcano and the data must be "corrected" to take out contamination caused by the ongoing eruption. Anyone who lives in Hawaii can tell about the nasty "vog" that negatively affects the whole State, including Hawaii having the nation's highest asthma rates, eyes watering, coughing, outdoor metal objects corroding because of sulfuric acid from the vog, and on and on. In some days in Honolulu, it can be much worse than what you would find in L.A. on a bad day. When did this eruption first start? 1983, and it has been going on continuously since then. Check against when global warming hysteria first really started getting going. If you start out with bad data, you can "correct" it any way you want to get the result you want. I should have clarified that this is where the CO2 and other greenhouse gas figures come from for the global warming models.
Jim: Almost all the U.S. data is taken from a NOAA monitoring station on the Big Island of Hawaii.
Are you referring to atmospheric CO2 content? If so, CO2 is measured all over the world, including by satellite. No, the hoax CO2 data that underlies "global warming" is based on what comes from the Big Island. It is not confirmed from other sources. It is used because it is claimed it has the longest history of measurement.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Keeling_Curve Jim: It is not confirmed from other sources.
From your own citation: "By 1960, Keeling and his group had determined that the measurement records from California, Antarctica, and Hawaii were long enough to see not just the diurnal and seasonal variations, but also a year-on-year increase that roughly matched the amount of fossil fuels burned per year." Measurements are made in many locations around the globe, and now by satellite, confirming the trend first detected at Mauna Loa. http://scrippsco2.ucsd.edu/research/atmospheric_co2 From The Weekly Standard:
What Was a Member of Clinton's 'Secret Spy Network' Doing While Working for CBS News? In March, an investigation by ProPublica and Gawker revealed that a “secret spy network” that was not on the State Department payroll, run by longtime Clinton aide Sidney Blumenthal, was “funneling intelligence about the crisis in Libya directly to the Secretary of State’s private account starting before the Benghazi attack.” Now the WEEKLY STANDARD has learned that Tyler Drumheller, the former chief of the CIA’s clandestine service in Europe who was working directly with Blumenthal as a member of Clinton’s spy network, was concurrently working as a consultant to CBS News and its venerable news program 60 Minutes. According to WEEKLY STANDARD sources, Drumheller was active in shaping the network’s Benghazi coverage. His role at the network raises questions about what went wrong with the retracted 60 Minutes report on Benghazi that aired in October 2013. Despite his former life as a high ranking CIA official, Drumheller was laden with political baggage, making him a curious choice to be consulting with a major news operation—especially so given that he was working directly with Sidney Blumenthal, whose primary occupation appears to be manipulating media coverage on behalf of the Clintons. http://www.weeklystandard.com/blogs/member-clintons-secret-spy-network-worked-cbs-news-helped-shape-benghazi-coverage_1034186.html How to fix the Education System by Bob.
Make it mandatory that anyone in an elected office or anyone drawing a paycheck from a school system, who has children, put those children into the Public School nearest them. I believe the term is "Skin in The Game". You'll either have a change in the makeup of people choosing to be in an elected office or a change in the makeup of the school systems...either would be refreshing. Make it mandatory that anyone in an elected office or anyone drawing a paycheck from a school system, who has children, put those children into the Public School nearest them.
Can't do that, Unconstitutional as is 'Cruel and Unusual Punishment'. re "It's Not Right To Make A Profit on Public Land"
Compelling argument by Coyote but I doubt he changed the opinion of the park ranger. It's very tough to win a debate with the brainblind. |