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Tuesday, September 22. 2015
"Capitalism has done more for the world's poor in 200 years than the Catholic Church has done in 2000."
A commenter at Cafe Hayek
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any reason why this bigotry appears on MF?
So in other words you're not capable of explaining your point?
Capitalism has done more for material life. The Church has done more the the life of the Spirit. Separate domains.
Granted we all need some money to live, to survive. The Guy that fed thousands with a few loaves and fishes hasn't been around lately.
However He's coming back not to feed us but to carry us to that spiritual city not made with hands, eternal in the Heavens.
As I understand it Capitalism is an economic and political system in which a country's trade and industry are controlled by private owners for profit, rather than by the state. It says nothing about the wealth accumulated, just the manor of acquiring it.
So, as I see the argument, The Catholic Church should acquire money via Capitalism and distribute it as Socialism dictates? Like our Federal Government, with the welfare and Medicade and EBT cards and free phones? Thing is, they're not in the political game, don't need to buy votes.
Oh, and the Catholics go where the troubles are, they do not import all the wretched people to this country and fix them and feed them and teach them how to vote.
This is one of the rules and guides to my faith and practice:
Lay not up for yourselves treasures on earth, where moth and rust does corrupt, and where thieves break through and steal:
But lay up for yourselves treasures in heaven, where neither moth nor rust does corrupt, and where thieves do not break through nor steal:
For where your treasure is, there will your heart be also.
no, kid, I'm thanking you for demonstrating mine.
The largest property owner on earth, with revenues likely exceeding any known corporation in global history.
"yeah, sure, but there's a SPIRITUAL payback"
Understand that the catholic church is rich. The "treasure" in the vaults of the Vatican is measured in the trillions. It has been sitting there for centuries. Explain that.
it's time for a heist. do you think Clooney is available? we'll call it The Vatican Job. but what do we do with the flying saucers hidden there?
Can we get the Freemason angle in here somehow?
I see a Dan Brown script here!
Wonder if Tom Hanks is available too?
I love Protestants.
They're so cute.
And they say the darnedest things!
It is hard to measure, as capitalism has largely been a European and Anglospheric enterprise. That's a pretty solidly Christian-with-Jewish-assist project.
AVI, that is absolutely correct, all other world-views/religions do not have future reward to look forward to. Hindu and Buddhists are minimizers, Islam is submission and obedience, only Judeo-Christian has incentives for improvements and ultimate rewards.
This post isn't "bigotry." It is fact. The Roman Catholic Church hasn't done as much to lift people out of poverty as free-market capitalism has. The Roman Catholic Church has been a strong supporter of the status quo in places such as Latin America which has a very clear-cut class structure - and people stay at the level to which they are born. Sure, the Roman Catholic Church has done a good job at lecturing "give to the poor." But, it hasn't done much to elevate the poor. It has done more to leave the poor at the mercy and "generosity" of the wealthy.
Nor, do I believe that free-market capitalism is a "Judeo-Christian" concept. Now, if someone said Judeo-Protestant concept I would agree. It has been the Anglosphere and Protestantism that have advanced free-market capitalism; not the Catholic Church. Remember, during the middle-ages the Catholic Church would only allow guild members to work on their public work projects (i.e. Cathedrals), and Guilds would only allow Church members to join the Guilds. Not unlike public unions and governments today - not a situation I would call free market; more like a "you scratch my back, I'll scratch yours."
It has been European countries such as the UK and the Netherlands, both protestant countries, that have exported free-market capitalism around the world. In the 20th century it has been the Anglosphere/Protestant US that has lead the world in free-market capitalism. Don't get me wrong here; I am NOT trying to bash American Catholics. American Catholics tend to be more American in their outlook than traditional European Catholics.
The Roman Catholic Church has done much to stifle competition and advancement; the church didn't exactly embrace Copernicus and Galileo, did it? The Roman Catholic Church for centuries stressed that peasants should obey their masters - the priests, bishops, and the Pope. Literacy? That was left to the Church to take care of. YOU, the peasant, don't need to read; your priests, bishops, etc. will TELL you what to believe. You, the peasant, should just till the fields and tithe your annual produce to your Lord and Church.
Protestantism, on the other hand, stressed that no man should be between the individual and God. Protestantism stressed reading the bible for one's self to learn what the word of God was about. This lead to a higher literacy rate in Protestant countries than in Roman Catholic countries.
And, let me not forget how Judaism comes into play; it was that great medieval Jewish Philosopher, Maimonides, who said "give a man a fish and you feed him for a day; teach a man to fish and you feed him for a lifetime." Now, that's stressing education.
I know folks jest (at least, I hope it is a joke) about storming the Vatican to heist the riches; but, once that wealth is spent, what comes next? Spain and Portugal, both Roman Catholic countries, are good historical examples of everyone, even the poor, suddenly becoming wealthy (gold and silver pouring in from the New World). Great, everyone is no longer poor; but, without a free-market system in place they didn't keep their wealth, now did they?
The bottom line is this: A better educated population leads to a better free-market. A better free-market has lifted more people out of poverty and into a better life than all the theocracy and charity coming out of the Vatican or anywhere else.
no, The Vatican Job is not a joke. I'm serious. this is serious business. this isn't a comedy website.
this is a cherry picking website.
Capitalism gave 10 year olds the freedom to work 60 hour weeks in coal mines. what could be better than that? every safety regulation, every environmental reg impedes Capitalism, costs batrillions of dollars, do away will all that and we'll have heaven on earth. why shouldn't we import foreign workers if it costs less than Americans? one of the most famousest Capitalist guy of all time, Colis P. Huntington -- a great protestant, by the way -- imported thousands of Chinese to build his railroad. why do you need blue sky laws? they just get in the way.
4-year olds worked at home spinning 60 hours/week before the industrial revolution.
as a modern capitalist, I'd centralize spinning production and increase the output of those four year olds.
the cotton gin breathed life into slavery, made the Southern capitalists dependent on a cotton economy dependent on slavery. this is assuming that being a slave was better than being a sharecropper. or maybe being a sharecropper was better than being a slave? which form of capitalism do you prefer? the Gone with the Wind style or the Song of the South style?
wow, you managed to be wrong 4 or 5 times in a single post.
got you down for ante-bellum capitalism.
thanks for the inept insight.
Read Rodney Stark's excellent book, "The Victory of Reason: How Christianity Led to Freedom, Capitalism, and Western Success" and it's Roman Catholics who really stoked capitalism.
I'm stunned at the level of ignorance people display concerning the teachings of the Catholic Church. Hospitals, universities, art and music, the basic underpinnings of western civilization are all products of the Catholic Church. Truth,justice and most important of all the administration of the sacraments. Not
once did Christ say go out and make people rich.
Truth and justice are very important, that's why it's a tragedy that the Roman Catholic denomination has strayed so far from them for so many centuries.
as a student of Christian and protestant theology, I've never understood this strange error of the ways. didn't God Himself hand down the KJV (Authorized Orange Catholic Version) on Mt. Sinai? how could that go so so wrong?
Right, which is why it's accurate and no insult to say that capitalism has done more to reduce poverty than the Church has done. It's not the Church's mission any more than it's its expertise.
There would be no reason for the contrast to come up, in fact, if the leader of the Church would refrain from confusing the two. The Church is doing a fine job at its own job, and should leave capitalism alone to do its.
"the basic underpinnings of western civilization are all products of the Catholic Church."
Well then, Thank goodness we had a Protestant reformation and an Age of Enlightenment to "undermine" those underpinnings.
Or will the Inquisition come after me for speaking such?
With 40,000 different (and counting) protestant denominations in the US alone you'd think one would stumble on truth, perhaps the next flavor of the day will. Truth is Eucharistic necessary for salvation and made plain in John 6:, so go ahead and fool yourselves that you know Truth. Satan, the dictator of relativism might even tempt you to double down on me.