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Thursday, August 20. 2015Illegal immigrationI am agin' it. It's illegal. Generally speaking, I oppose breaking most laws, however stupid. Five Serious Truths About Illegal Immigration That GOP Candidates Have To Accept. If you want to see what unlimited immigration (against the consent of the people) looks like, take a look at Europe. Mezzican immigrants now amount to what had been 1/3 of the Mexican population. That is an invasion, and it is without our consent. If we want to consent to that, then fine. However, I can say that there is not a single job I had while growing up which is not occupied by immigrants. What work would I do today as a 13 or 15 year-old eager beaver?
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I think you can try to make your point without the "Mezzican" slur. Most of my family is Hispanic, (I am not), and I doubt they would find the term congenial, to say the least.
But the issue is problematic. I agree strongly in the goodness of open borders (in terms of human welfare), but agree that it can bring in problems as well. These are especially true in a world with strong public safety nets. The risk is that immigrants will come for handouts. The other risk is that the people bring their culture with them, and the culture is in great part what created the lower living standards they are fleeing from. I would suggest an extremely strict program of widespread (meaning large in numbers) legal immigration. Immigrants would have to pass background checks, prove gainful employment, avoid any illegal activity and contribute a higher percentage to SS. After twenty years of proven value-added activity and proficiency at English, they can become citizens. This would need to be accompanied by a strict process of requiring businesses to immediately shift from hiring illegals to hiring legal immigrants (strong punishments). Another idea is to coordinate with the country that they are departing from to build American Enterprise zones or charter cities. Let's bring American institutions to them rather than requiring them to come here. They can be in the middle of the desert. The idea here is we will not allow any immigration at all unless you allow us to build a charter city or two. This solves the problem without creating one here. Preferably we would see charter cities and extensive legal immigration. "The risk is that immigrants will come for handouts."
"and contribute a higher percentage to SS" Perhaps you don't recognize that government welfare programs (like social security) are the handouts they are coming for. Social security (includes SCHIP) benefits paid to you are not paid from the taxes you paid in. Benefits to current recipients are paid by current workers. There are two problems that require two solutions. First, there is the issue of border security. We need to keep out those who we do not specifically allow in. This involves removing incentives for illegal immigrants to enter (no jobs, no benefits, nada) and constructing barriers to entry (fence, radar, seismic detectors, drones, etc.) Second, we need to eliminate government handouts to all foreign and domestic moochers. Property rights are the essential ingredient for a free and prosperous society. That means that the government takes seriously its key purpose - to protect the property (includes life and limb) of individual citizens from threats both foreign and domestic. Allow me to clarify, Mike.
I support substantial (orders of magnitude) increases in legal immigration along with a strong restriction in illegal immigration and employment. Replace the illegal path with a legal path. Included in this path is a requirement that the person become and remain gainfully employed and pay higher SS. As they eventually become citizens they will qualify for citizen benefits including the SS which they have helped fund. Fears that new workers will steal jobs long term is just a version of the fallacy that there is a limited number of jobs. In reality, every worker brings similar purchase needs and the network of reciprocity and cooperation called free enterprise self amplifies the size of the pie. Such is exactly the trend we see globally over the last generation, and indeed is what we have seen for 250 years. On the issue of safety nets, I see this as a valuable service which most effective complex societies address. I recommend voluntary, non coercive means such as insurance and charity, but I also see the role for government redistribution where controlled for exploitation and mooching. Granted, it is rarely controlled well, but I could write a recipe to do so on a cocktail, napkin in two minutes. The problem is political not logical. I heard that douchey guy Geraldo Rivera on the radio today (real name Jerry Rivers, changed his name).
He said anybody who opposes illegal immigration is racist, and wondered who would wash dishes and do lawnwork in the US without the illegals. Sorry, I am not a hater. I just can't stand idiots like him. Of all the arguments against uncontrolled immigration, I think the "unfair competition for jobs" is the least convincing. The most reasonable culprits in your scenario are welfare and the minimum wage.
No. 1 is a perfect example of how libtards control the debate by controlling its terms, the rest of the thread is an example of how true Americans fall into this trap.
1. "Immigrants". Non-citizens are here legally as legal permanent residents (aka LPRs aka green card holders) or on various kinds of temporary visit permits, meaning, after the visa expires, they leave. All others are here illegally (aka overstayed visa, swam the Rio Grande aka wetbacks). LPRs are on a path to citizenship - they are real immigrants; the others aren't, they are illegals. calling a drug mule from Mex an "immigrant" shifts the terminology of the debate and makes it easier to propose only solutions that lead to citizenship. It excludes the from the debate the possibility that we can admit Hose A and Hose B as temporary, non-immigrant visa holders who are here for the seasonal work, then go home until next harvest, aka GTFO, and no, you don't get to import the wife, kids and all 20 cousins with you while you're digging out cabbages in Modesto. 2. "goodness of open borders". maybe. the Immigration and Nationality Act is already generous to aliens. but this generosity depends on Congress to decide who and how many, not MS-13, not the Mex junta and not 10,000,000 forest peasants jumping the border. Seems this is a world wide movement, organized and funded . Do genies go back in bottle?
If you want a clear picture of what unchecked immigration looks like, you only need ask an Indian.
(A really old Indian). "No pathway to citizenship. Ever".
Thank you. Illegal immigrantion as a pathway to citizenship is like rape as a pathway to marriage. Thank You. That's probably the most Politically Incorrect thing I'll hear all day. And marriages that start with rape, well, no question who's the boss.
As NJ asked (but so far hasn't been answered) what jobs will our "native" teenagers be getting? Answer is that most won't but the lost money, frankly, isn't the biggest problem. It's the loss of early job experience without which too many of our younger generation will make it to their twenties before they have to get up for work, do what they are told all day and start learning the skills that come after school and living at home ends. Also it better to screw up earlier, some of the biggest on-the-job mistakes I ever made I was soundly chewed out for but survived with the comment, "...just a teenager, hopefully he'll learn." "It's the loss of early job experience without which too many of our younger generation will make it to their twenties before they have to get up for work, do what they are told all day and start learning the skills that come after school and living at home ends.
Also it better to screw up earlier, some of the biggest on-the-job mistakes I ever made I was soundly chewed out for but survived with the comment, "...just a teenager, hopefully he'll learn." Thank you for saying this. Totally agree. |