We are a commune of inquiring, skeptical, politically centrist, capitalist, anglophile, traditionalist New England Yankee humans, humanoids, and animals with many interests beyond and above politics. Each of us has had a high-school education (or GED), but all had ADD so didn't pay attention very well, especially the dogs. Each one of us does "try my best to be just like I am," and none of us enjoys working for others, including for Maggie, from whom we receive neither a nickel nor a dime. Freedom from nags, cranks, government, do-gooders, control-freaks and idiots is all that we ask for.
Our Recent Essays Behind the Front Page
Sunday, February 1. 2015
Measles is not particularly dangerous as infectious diseases go. Like Mumps (crazy names, aren't they?), serious sequelae are rare. Most people past 40 had Measles and/or Mumps or were exposed to them. However, these are those unpleasant things which had been eliminated in the Western world.
Vaccine Critics Turn Defensive Over Measles. Can we term these people superstitious know-nothings? Love this quote:
"It’s good to explore alternatives rather than go with the panic of everyone around you,” she said. “Vaccines don’t feel right for me and my family.”
They don't "feel right"? What?
Not long ago, parents tried to expose their kids to other kids with Mumps, Measles, and Rubella (German Measles) to get it over with during Grade School.
Display comments as (Linear | Threaded)
147,000 deaths worldwide from measles in 2013. Down from well over 500,000 deaths in 2000 thanks to an effort to vaccinate more people worldwide. Untold numbers of pregnancy problems and birth defects. This disease could be wiped out worldwide but anti-science superstition trumps science for too many people.
Most of the people on this site would quickly identify and dismiss the informal fallacy of "Appealing to Authority" i.e. "BLANK is safe and good for you, because the BLANK says it is". Yet they accept it with vaccines.
There are people with legitimate concerns regarding our vaccine safety and some unethical practices of our of pharmaceutical industry.
Don't shut down discussion because there are fruitcakes out there with hippie ideas about vaccine science.
Science is asking questions and trying to find a better understanding about reality. Please read this following link. I don't agree with all his conclusions, but he has it documented.
So many of those claims that are cited have been proven to be totally false. As for the mercury in vaccines that has been discontinued, not because it caused harm but because of luddite public opinion. The mercury in thimerosal is ethyl mercury which gets flushed out of the body. Unlike the mercury found in fish which is methyl mercury which is absorbed by the body. I suspect that like most of us you eat fish. One serving of tuna or salmon will give you more mercury than a lifetime of vaccinations did. The thimerosal was a preservative it was essential and caused no harm. It is likely that now people will actually die because the termerosal was removed because in the third world without refrigeration vaccinations will not take place and people will die. This was a big win for the anti-science luddites; people will die. Now that is an accomplishment to be proud of.
regarding "documenting" or citations that seem to prove something. Anything can be "proven" that way. I can probably come up with a million web sites to cite as "proof" that aliens are real and have visited this world. And honestly I bet about half of the sites are more honest and more believeable then natural news site is. What makes a good scam is a good story. You can expect that the anti-vaxers and truthers will have a good story with lots of citations and big names to drop. That doesn't make it true.
My mother took me to a "chicken pox party" when I was a little kid-- the goal was to have ALL your kids sick at once, rather than having one out for two weeks, followed by the rest out for another two weeks.
That said, I've seen a kid exposed in utero to German measles... it was very bad news indeed. (Ditto chicken pox in adults, and in cancer patients...) And you can't get vaccinated after you get pregnant (get cancer, get HIV...), so "herd immunity" is what you're depending on, in that situation. A pity that we're depending on such a stupid herd for something so important.
My son was five in 1973 when he got chicken pox. We went on an overnight hike down the Grand Canyon and I noticed he seemed "grouchy" but didn't think much of it. Got back home after 5 days and my 2 year old daughter had the chicken pox that's when I figured out his grouchiness.
I remember when I got chicken pox as a preschooler and my mother taped mittens to my hands to keep me from scratching.
So over 100 people have now gotten measles, including some children whose parents had refused to have them vaccinated against the disease. The "Anti-Vaxxers", led by TV personality and utter moron Jenny McCarthy, claim that vaccines might, possibly, conceivably, cause autism, and so they decide to rely on the "herd immunity" that might prevent THEIR children from the disease because all the OTHER children have been vaccinated. But "herd immunity" only works when most of the other children HAVE been vaccinated - and every unvaccinated child increases the danger for all.
Anti-vaxxers are like people who refuse to buy a ticket on the subway or the light rail; they are “free riders” taking advantage of the system. Perhaps a $100,000 fine would be appropriate for a person who refused to vaccinate a child who later became ill of the preventable disease.
People don't HAVE to get their kids vaccinated - but like the light-rail rider who gets on without a ticket, there ought to be some consequences for gambling and losing.
Your logic is deeply, deeply flawed and your presentation is that of a 5th grader. Do your research captain. There are safer alternatives. https://vaccinefree.wordpress.com/
The problem is that people are being allowed to give medical advice that is harmful with no penalty. It is way past time for another "Scopes" trial. Let the chips fall where they may. If these luddites have to face jail or civil penalties then maybe suddenly people will stop selling this snake oil.
I have done my research; which is why I had my son vaccinated for everything possible. And I also got the MMR vaccination, which wasn't available when I was young.
Back then, the big question was "Do you have your children vaccinated with the attenuated-but-live polio virus Salk vaccine?" My parents did have me vaccinated, even though the Salk vaccine WAS provably risky. The alternative was the chance of actual polio, and my folks had seen that risk up close. When the Sabin vaccine was released, everybody cheered - and got re-vaccinated just to be sure.
And the smallpox vaccine, which nobody gets any more, because smallpox has been eliminated everywhere except in a couple of bio-war labs in the US and Russia. (And probably in a few more mothballed but never properly cleaned NIH facilities, but sometimes "security by obscurity" works.)
If there are "safer alternatives" available now, why are they so controversial? Because they DON'T WORK. Which is why 100 people have contracted measles at Disneyland. The "Scientific Method" actually WORKS, for people who use it..
It's not Disneyland's fault that Southern CA is full of illegal immigrants who haven't been medically screened or come from countries with NO advanced medical care, like vaccinations.
It is 100% the fault of the federal government that we have millions of illegal immigrants and legal visitors who fail to get vaccinated. We should secure our border and we should require all visitors to have visas before entry and as part of the visa requirement to have the appropriate vaccinations.
Still waiting for your "safer alternatives". Here's something to ponder while you're doing your research.
What Ken said. They're riding on the backs of parents who do the right thing.
A system can handle a few "free riders" and until now, that's how the anti-vaxxers managed. Too many "free riders" and the system collapses, and we may be getting to that point.
I'm concerned enough that I'm going to get my immunity checked (was vaccinated as a kid but immunity can wear off) and get re-vaccinated if necessary. BEFORE it becomes a serious issue in my state.
Measles is also apparently the MOST contagious virus out there....which is why it's so scary.
When I was in First Grade in the early 70's, the school lined us all up and hit us with an immunization. Nobody was asked and nobody was excluded.
Dr Joy Bliss: Not long ago, parents tried to expose their kids to other kids with Mumps, Measles, and Rubella (German Measles) to get it over with during Grade School.
Measles is most dangerous for the young. It was generally best to avoid the disease.
I hadd measlez, mumqs and chickin pocs in the '30s witin a tree or 4 yerr periud. No badd aftr effex at all.
I primarily blame the anti-vaccine folks, but am puzzled at their 'live by their feelings' stupidity and ignorance. Sounds so 1960's hippie-ish.
Don't public schools enforce vaccinating kids in order to attend? I thought they were supposed to do that.
I'm not an anti-vaccer, but has anyone compared the vaccine schedule from say - 30-40 yrs ago ... to todays' ? seems to me they have amped it up considerably, which might not be the best thing for young immune systems. Especially since C-section birth (which means you don't receive the bacterial gut lining from natural birth, which IS your immune system) and the decrease in breastfeeding (which I can understand as a few of my friends just had babies and the LaLeche people were morons). Not that I think it has anything to do with behavioral problems/autism diagnosis. That is more likely an in-utero encephalitis.
From what I've read, kids who get the chicken pox vaccine, don't get chicken pox, but they get shingles. As young as in their 20's-30's. That should be a choice, whether to get it or not. I can see schools implementing a vaccine schedule, as much of a PITA as it is, because they have to work around possibly 30-40 kids out with the same illness due to non-symptomatic carrier period.
Although they do anyway, because of the cold/flu season.
Also, I'm wondering do anti-vaxers NOT vaccinate family pets? Cause rabies shots are really "don't feel right for our family."