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Monday, January 26. 2015
I wasn't angry at all, Dr. Dean, but that comment did annoy me. Saw the movie last night with friends. It was ok, not a great film by any means from a film or drama standpoint, repetitive, I thought, but certainly exciting at times. Cowboys and Indians, on steroids. I have heard from those in the know that it does capture the reality of what Fallujah was like so they did have some good advisers on set. Urban combat in a hostile and sneaky environment in which nobody can be trusted except your buddies.
The film is not about politics at all. It's just about a certain kind of warfare through one man's eyes. Sultan said this: "Hollywood tried to “Vietnamize” Iraq in the popular imagination. American Sniper shows they failed." Well, I dunno. We won in Vietnam, then we gave it away. We sort-of won in Iraq, but they couldn't keep it without us. A lot of these crazy, unstable places in the world are tar babies. Is it worth it? You tell me.
I would have been interested in what Kyle's PTSD was about, but I didn't read the book. It would have been good to include more about sniper rifles, windage, distance shooting, etc. Perhaps what I left thinking about most was that these servicemen in the movie, SEALS, Marines, etc. - the sharp end of the spear - do not so much do heroism as they do a professional risky job for which they are highly-trained in body, mind, heart, and soul. Yes, I think that feeling of professionalism and trust in buddies is accurate, and is what most stuck with me.
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re Dean: His comments are ROFL funny, but they also are an interesting window on leftist thinking as well.
Sultan Knish has more:
The Hollywood Jihad Against American Sniper
re Hollywood Jihad against Sniper:
One wonders what these past personalities would have thought?
There may be some discrepancy in the details but I believe this list to be largely true.
DO YOU REMEMBER THESE MEN?
I can only send this to people our age, (well close to our age) since most of todays people don't have any idea who these Men were and that's a pity.
George Gobel comedian, Army Air Corps, taught fighter pilots
Johnny Carson made a big deal about it once on the Tonight Show, to which George said "the Japs didn't get past us."
Sterling Hayden , US Marines and OSS . Smuggled guns into Yugoslavia and parachuted into Croatia . Silver Star.
James Stewart , US Army Air Corps. Bomber pilot who rose to the rank of General.
Ernest Borgnine , US Navy. Gunners Mate 1c, destroyer USS Lamberton. 10 years active duty. Discharged 1941, re-enlisted after Pearl Harbor .
Ed McMahon, US Marines. Fighter Pilot. (Flew OE-1 Bird Dogs over Korea as well.)
Telly Savalas , US Army.
Walter Matthau , US Army Air Corps., B-24 Radioman/Gunner and cryptographer.
Steve Forrest , US Army. Wounded, Battle of the Bulge.
Jonathan Winters, USMC. Battleship USS Wisconsin and Carrier USS Bon Homme Richard. Anti-aircraft gunner, Battle of Okinawa.
Paul Newman, US Navy Rear seat gunner/radsioman, torpedo bombers of USS Bunker Hill.
Kirk Douglas , US Navy. Sub-chaser in the Pacific. Wounded in action and medically discharged.
Robert Mitchum , US Army.
Dale Robertson , US Army. Tank Commander in North Africa under Patton. Wounded twice. Battlefield Commission.
Henry Fonda , US Navy. Destroyer USS Satterlee.
John Carroll , US Army Air Corps. Pilot in North Africa . Broke his back in a crash.
Lee Marvin US Marines. Sniper. Wounded in action on Saipan . Buried in Arlington National Cemetery , Sec. 7A next to Greg Boyington and Joe Louis.
Art Carney , US Army. Wounded on Normandy beach, D-Day. Limped for the rest of his life.
Wayne Morris, US Navy fighter pilot, USS Essex. Downed seven Japanese fighters.
Rod Steiger , US Navy. Was aboard one of the ships that launched the Doolittle Raid.
Tony Curtis , US Navy. Sub tender USS Proteus. In Tokyo Bay for the surrender of Japan .
Larry Storch. US Navy. Sub tender USS Proteus with Tony Curtis.
Forrest Tucker, US Army. Enlisted as a private, rose to Lieutenant.
Robert Montgomery , US Navy.
George Kennedy , US Army. Enlisted after Pearl Harbor , stayed in sixteen years.
Mickey Rooney , US Army under Patton. Bronze Star.
Denver Pyle , US Navy. Wounded in the Battle of Guadalcanal . Medically discharged.
Burgess Meredith , US Army Air Corps.
DeForest Kelley , US Army Air Corps.
Robert Stack , US Navy. Gunnery Officer.
Neville Brand , US Army, Europe . Was awarded the Silver Star and Purple Heart.
Tyrone Power, US Marines. Transport pilot in the Pacific Theater.
Charlton Heston , US Army Air Corps. Radio operator and aerial gunner on a B-25, Aleutians .
Danny Aiello , US Army. Lied about his age to enlist at 16. Served three years.
James Arness , US Army. As an infantryman, he was severely wounded at Anzio , Italy .
Efram Zimbalist, Jr., US Army. Purple Heart for a severe wound received at Huertgen Forest .
Mickey Spillane, US Army Air Corps, Fighter Pilot and later Instructor Pilot.
Rod Serling. US Army. 11th Airborne Division in the Pacific. He jumped at Tagaytay in the Philippines and was later wounded in Manila .
Gene Autry , US Army Air Corps. Crewman on transports that ferried supplies over "The Hump" in the China-
Wiliam Holden , US Army Air Corps.
Alan Hale Jr, US Coast Guard.
Harry Dean Stanton, US Navy. Battle of Okinawa .
Russell Johnson , US Army Air Corps. B-24 crewman who was awarded Purple Heart when his aircraft was shot down by the Japanese in the Philippines .
William Conrad , US Army Air Corps. Fighter Pilot.
Jack Klugman , US Army.
Frank Sutton , US Army. Took part in 14 assault landings, including Leyte, Luzon, Bataan and Corregidor .
Jackie Coogan , US Army Air Corps. Volunteered for gliders and flew troops and materials into Burma behind enemy lines.
Tom Bosley , US Navy.
Claude Akins , US Army. Signal Corps. , Burma and the Philippines .
Chuck Connors , US Army. Tank-warfare instructor.
Harry Carey Jr., US Navy.
Mel Brooks , US Army. Combat Engineer. Saw action in the Battle of the Bulge.
Robert Altman , US Army Air Corps. B-24 Co-Pilot.
Pat Hingle , US Navy. Destroyer USS Marshall
Fred Gwynne , US Navy. Radioman.
Karl Malden , US Army Air Corps. 8th Air Force, NCO.
Earl Holliman. US Navy. Lied about his age to enlist. Discharged after a year when the Navy found out.
Rock Hudson , US Navy. Aircraft mechanic, the Philippines .
Harvey Korman , US Navy.
Aldo Ray. US Navy. UDT frogman, Okinawa .
Don Knotts , US Army, Pacific Theater.
Don Rickles , US Navy aboard USS Cyrene.
Harry Dean Stanton, US Navy. Served aboard an LST in the Battle of Okinawa .
Robert Stack , US Navy. Gunnery Instructor.
Soupy Sales, US Navy. Served on USS Randall in the South Pacific.
Lee Van Cleef , US Navy. Served aboard a sub chaser then a mine sweeper.
Clifton James , US Army, South Pacific. Was awarded the Silver Star, Bronze Star, and Purple Heart.
Ted Knight , US Army, Combat Engineers.
Jack Warden , US Navy, 1938-1942, then US Army, 1942-1945. 101st Airborne Division.
Don Adams. US Marines. Wounded on Guadalcanal , then served as a Drill Instructor.
James Gregory, US Navy and US Marines.
Brian Keith, US Marines. Radioman/Gunner in Dauntless dive-bombers.
Fess Parker, US Navy and US Marines. Booted from pilot training for being too tall, joined Marines as a radio operator.
Charles Durning. US Army. Landed at Normandy on D-Day. Shot multiple times. Awarded the Silver Star and Bronze Star and three Purple Hearts. Survived Malmedy Massacre.
Raymond Burr , US Navy. Shot in the stomach on Okinawa and medically discharged.
Hugh O'Brian, US Marines.
Robert Ryan, US Marines.
Eddie Albert , US Coast Guard. Bronze Star with Combat V for saving several Marines under heavy fire as pilot of a landing craft during the invasion of Tarawa .
Cark Gable , US Army Air Corps. B-17 gunner over Europe .
Charles Bronson , US Army Air Corps. B-29 gunner, wounded in action.
Peter Graves , US Army Air Corps.
Buddy Hackett, US Army anti-aircraft gunner.
Victor Mature, US Coast Guard.
Jack Palance, US Army Air Corps. Severely injured bailing out of a burning B-24 bomber.
Robert Preston , US Army Air Corps. Intelligence Officer
Cesar Romero , US Coast Guard. Coast Guard. Participated in the invasions of Tinian and Saipan on the assault transport USS Cavalier.
Norman Fell , US Army Air Corps., Tail Gunner, Pacific Theater.
Jason Robards , US Navy. was aboard heavy cruiser USS Northampton when it was sunk off Guadalcanal . Also served on the USS Nashville during the invasion of the Philippines , surviving a kamikaze hit that caused 223 casualties.
Steve Reeves, US Army , Philippines .
Dennis Weaver, US Navy. Pilot.
Robert Taylor , US Navy. Instructor Pilot.
Randolph Scott. Tried to enlist in the Marines but was rejected due to injuries sustained in US Army, World War 1.
Ronald Reagan. US Army. Was a 2nd Lt. in the Cavalry Reserves before the war. His poor eyesight kept him from being sent overseas with his unit when war came so he transferred to the Army Air Corps Public Relations Unit where he served for the duration.
John Wayne. Declared "4F medically unfit" due to pre-existing injuries, he nonetheless attempted to volunteer three times (Army, Navy and Film Corps.) so he gets honorable mention.
And of course we have Audie Murphy , America 's most-decorated soldier, who became a Hollywood star as a result of his US Army service that included his being awarded the Medal of Honor.
" I submit to you that this is not the America today that it was seventy years ago. And I, for one, am saddened.
My generation grew up watching, being entertained by and laughing with so many of these fine people, never really knowing what they contributed to the war effort. Like millions of Americans during the WWII, there was a job that needed doing they didn't question, they went and did it, those that came home returned to their now new normal life and carried on, very few ever saying what they did or saw. They took it as their "responsibility", their "duty" to Country, to protect and preserve our freedoms and way of life, not just for themselves but for all future generations to come. As a member of that "First" generation, I'm forever humbly in their debt."
It's no surprise that Dean would try to politicize what was not political and then trash it. I think it was more cultural - patriotism, sense of duty, trying to make a difference by saving lives. That those cultural markers have not yet been eradicated is troubling to him and his ilk.
Dean might argue that he wants to make a positive difference in peoples' lives through government. BS! The mechanism for doing that is by taking from one person what is his and giving that to another person. That helps neither person. Both were stolen from. The former had his money stolen the latter had his pride stolen. The only one who benefits is the politician as he gains power over the other two.
Not sure why people listen to Howard Dean.
Correct about the professionalism of our warriors. It isn't just macho nonsense. It is often a deep-dive into a subject as complicated public or actuarial accounting.
I haven't seen it but one rather different criticism of the film that I read was that it treated him as some sort of superhero that was needed to protect the marines and other service personnel because they weren't really up to the job of handling this dangerous enemy.
This reviewer thought it did a great disservice to other military personnel.
There might be a bit of that, but...
1. No Soldier or Marine in his right mind wants to fight in an urban environment, particularly with our restrictive rules of engagement. Too many ways to get killed by an enemy who knows the turf.
2. They never implied that he was the only sniper in any area. Marine Infantry battalions have their own organic scout-sniper teams who were doing the same job. Marines feel no shame relying on their snipers - all on the same team.
3. While not superhuman and not a national champion shooter, Kyle was very very good and what he did. An excellent shot with supreme situational awareness at all times.
Saw the film yesterday too.
Crazy comment from Dean, but then, what's new about that. Mudbug covers it well with the implication that it is just an attempt to denigrate the cultural markers of anyone to the right of Lenin.
And Jay, whomever it was that made that criticism has never been in the military, I'd venture. Marines will take any help they can get, as, at least in the old days, it usually wasn't much anyway. Though yes, he was a hero to many and for good reason.
No, perhaps not a great film as usually construed. Which is a good thing I think. Its focus was on the more elementary events that individuals experience in combat, whatever the setting, the motivations and yes, even ideals that cause some to place themselves in harms way.
I had the opportunity to watch him to do an interview on television while he was traveling the circuit promoting his book. We know a lot of professional military men and I liked him. He was a warrior, but he had good humility. He'd be my firs pick for best kind of neighbor/friend. Was he young--yup. Was he a grown up man of honor--yup. Those are difficult years for any young man: making the cross over from hot headed youth to hardworking man. I think he handled it all very well. As for the film: I like Eastwood's work. I felt that I was actually there at the time. I agree there should have been more details about the knowledge that is needed to do sniper shooting like that. A little explanation of trig might have helped give the film more depth/detail. On the other hand a picture serves a thousand words. That silent "vet" standing by the pick up truck in the last scene says so, so, so, much about young men growing up without their fathers! I also thought that Eastwood helped through his repetition to make us feel what it was like to go back once, go back twice, go back three times, go back four. The repetition of scene/action made me really understand that fact of those time for those men. The kid was good--any man on the farm would be proud to have him as son. I grieve for the family he leaves behind--can they win? Can they come through this without being a target--again?
I forgot to mention that he has 160 confirmed kills. That means there were witnesses to verify. However, his record shows that he probably has a kill of 250 (255?). There were no official witnesses, but the body count or other evidence suggests that it is probable.
All good military men should be humble because they willingly put their lives at risk for something greater than themselves. The antithesis of the me-first culture to often seems to have taken hold. I sometimes regret that I didn't join the military when I was young. I was too self-centered (chicken) but it would have been good for me.
I had a few minor problems with some details in the movie. Someone mentioned earlier (NJSoldier?) that the tank in the beginning should have sounded like a jet (it has a turbine engine). The other thing was that Chris's spotter didn't ever seem to be doing anything. The spotter should be busy watching for targets and feeding information back to the sniper about range, where he missed, etc. Some made a case about the fake baby they passed around. It turns out that was because of some stupid regulations in California. On the whole, I thought it was great and a great tribute to him and his wife. I hope she makes a fortune off of it and the books. After that dirt bag, Jesse Ventura sued the estate for Chris making him look bad in his book, she probably needs it.
Howard Dean couldn't find his ass with both hands.
Probably true, but I prefer:
"He couldn't scratch his ass with a mountain lion in each hand."
And then for some, the ever popular:
"He couldn't pour piss out of a boot with the directions written on the heel."
We went to see the movie yesterday, in liberal Long Island, packed house! First time you could hear a pin drop during the movie and not one person "raced out" before the very end.
Plus people applauded at the end! There are not that many Tea Party types on LI. I guess there is still the Great Silent Majority out there that believe in America.
Newsflash for Mr. Dean - to paraphrase Obama - you lost, get over it.
It seems that in the last decade or so, the Democrats have given use a sore winner in Obama and a host of sore losers, Dean, Gore, Hillary, etc.
They don't seem to have any dignity. Why can't they just shut up and go away?
Those moviegoers are all bitter clingers, clinging to their guns and religion.