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Friday, February 28. 2014

At Zero Hedge, a commenter:

"As an observer, this is like watching Russia beat up its old girlfriend, and one wonders, why didn't she just get away years ago?"

Says Paul Rahe: Vladimir Putin: The World's Greatest Fool:

"Russia is a banana republic with nuclear weapons."

Posted by The News Junkie in Hot News & Misc. Short Subjects at 15:55 | Comments (9) | Trackbacks (0)

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So, in the Ukraine the bad guys fight the bad guys and the bad guys win. Who'd a thunk it?

Unfortunately, the US and the EU are two of the bad guys. They (we) instigated the violent overthrow of the freely and democratically elected Yanukovych government by right wing thugs (actual neo-Nazis among them) because Putin offered the Ukraine a better economic deal with less internal interference and the legitimate government of the Ukraine took it.

Now Putin is instigating ethnic Russians in Crimea and elsewhere to push back. The outcome is still in doubt. Why did our corrupt and incompetent Deep State think anything else would happen?

Nowadays the US itself (or at least the Deep State) is the main source of violence and instability in the world, intervening willy-nilly everywhere both militarily and economicallyand spying on literally everyone.

Moreover, from Putin's view point (which isn't necessarily true) the US is conducting a war of encirclement and isolation against Russia. Consider the list: Serbia dismembered, Iraq conquered, Libya thrown into chaos, Syria in civil war, Ukrainian government overthrown. All long term Russian allies or part of the Russian heartland. A very large scale war in central and eastern Europe is a real possibility for the first time since 1939, and if it happens we will have started it.

"Maybe some of them are unimportant - I won't argue about that - but look at the number of them."

#1 bob sykes on 2014-02-28 16:22 (Reply)

I must disagree that the 15 billion and promises of gas discounts to the Ukraine from Russia was the better deal. The deal from the EU would have opened up job opportunities for the people of Ukraine, investment opportunities of every kind and a path to modernity and prosperity. Putin's offer was little more than a bribe. Legitimate government? What is a legitimate government? Surely it is not one whose interest lies primarily in lining it's own pockets? No, the people of Ukraine had seen enough of corruption and self serving oligarchs in the government for far too long. So, absent the consent of the governed, there can be no legitimacy.

"Nowadays the US itself (or at least the Deep State) is the main source of violence and instability in the world, intervening willy-nilly everywhere both militarily and economically and spying on literally everyone."

On this point, I can offer some support. Some, but not all. The role of the U.S. in many areas of the world in recent decades has certainly been deplorable. The Iraq, Libyan and Afghanistan adventures have been disasters. However, to say that the U.S. is the main source of all instability is not reasonable. Case in point, look at what tiny impoverished Cuba has done for world stability in Africa and Venezuela. Look also to the recent flexing of military power by China causing much unease in the Pacific. North Korea springs to mind as the little psycho with a couple of nukes who might do anything at any time. Nor is Russia an innocent. Russia is a big part of the upheaval in the Ukraine and around the region. Oh, and everyone spies on everyone. Always been that way, always will. Putin knows this better than any.

#1.1 W. C. Taqiyya on 2014-03-01 09:40 (Reply)

"Russia is a banana republic with nuclear weapons."

Back in the days of the Soviet Union, the phrase was "Upper Volta with rockets" or" Upper Volta with missiles."
Banana republic or not, it appears that Putin will have his way with Ukraine, with Obama doing nothing, standing on the sideline.

What does that make the US?

#2 Gringo on 2014-02-28 22:06 (Reply)

Yup Gringo, we're not much better than a banana republic these days.

Of course the other thing they (Russia) have besides nukes is the gas supply for Europe which is probably a lot more useful than nukes anymore.

#2.1 mudbug on 2014-02-28 22:53 (Reply)

"What does that make the US?" That makes us a nation of fools lead by fools, saboteurs and charlatans. I commented previously that Obama is provoking Putin to exert pressure on the Ukraine. Yes, the words say please don't, but the meaning is, please do. With Obama, no means yes. Putin understands. Ships in Cuban ports, troop airlifted to the Crimea, military readiness exercises. These are the things dreams are made of. If you are the commie in chief of the U.S. itching for a real crisis to exploit. Selling out Europe and the people of Ukraine? Just the the price of admittance into communist heaven.

#2.2 W. C. Taqiyya on 2014-03-01 09:57 (Reply)

I'm with you. I can't see a single thing about Putin's actions in the Ukraine that would give President Obama a millisecond of heartburn. Why should he care? I'm surprised he even bothers to make his empty noises about conferring with other leaders to ensure that there will be "costs."

That business in the Olympics coverage about the fall of the Soviet Union being "bittersweet" might have been aimed directly at people like Obama.

#2.2.1 Texan99 on 2014-03-01 10:18 (Reply)

Very interesting comments so far from Mr. Sykes and Gringo. They have credence and perception. And they look at the same thing from different angles. I like that. And, if I didn't have those last two shots of vodka, I would comment more. Maybe tomorrow. Needless to say, I see the Ukraine thing a bit differently. But, maybe by not so much as I might think.

#3 W. C. Taqiyya on 2014-02-28 22:20 (Reply)

"They (we) instigated the violent overthrow of the freely and democratically elected Yanukovych government by right wing thugs (actual neo-Nazis among them) because Putin offered the Ukraine a better economic deal with less internal interference and the legitimate government of the Ukraine took it."

I think you're thinking of the Egyptian military taking out Morsi with nary a squeak from the people who might normally be expected to squeak.

Yours is a narrative on the Ukraine that I've not encountered before now, probably because no one has tried to sway public opinion with such a blatantly counterfactual approach while the news (and facts) are still relatively "in the news."

"Moreover, from Putin's view point (which isn't necessarily true) the US is conducting a war of encirclement and isolation against Russia."

What Putin knows is that BO has been pining to be Putin's BFF and Main Man and he wants them to do sleepovers and hang out together, and he's still miffed that Putin has cold-shouldered him so far but he's still trying . . .

Putin has invaded a country with whom we have a treaty - the Budapest Memo, signed by Clinton, promising we'd protect them from Russia if they gave up their nukes, which they did - and that treaty should pretty much guarantee that, if Russia is indeed invading The Big U, we'll have to go in in some fashion too, or abrogate our treaty.

And BO's response in the face of that was "you've gone too far, and now we're forced to begin to explore forming an international committee of those nations willing to come together to protect 50% of the people in the Ukraine by releasing statements deploring - yes, deploring! - your warlike actions!"

Putin trembles.

BO might have just said "hey, Vlad, buddy, I got your back here! Go knock some sense into those hoity-toity Ukarnians while I keep the euro-rabble busy in meetings! You and me, guy! The A-team!""

So, no, we've only begun to be the "bad" guy (using "bad" in the sense of "malevolent", not in the sense of "rude" or "un-PC") since BO failed to take over as President.

#4 bobby b on 2014-03-01 03:49 (Reply)

BO might have just said "hey, Vlad, buddy, I got your back here! Go knock some sense into those hoity-toity Ukarnians while I keep the euro-rabble busy in meetings! You and me, guy! The A-team!""

Tell Vlad that after the election I'll have much more flexibility...
Remember?

#5 John the River (Link) on 2014-03-02 01:14 (Reply)

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Friday, February 28. 2014

Ukraine