Is this legal?

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Tuesday, July 23. 2013

I guess it must be. No different than hoarding a stock, I suppose. Or is it more like price-manipulation? U.S. Weighs Inquiry Into Big Banks’ Storage of Commodities. Cornering markets? Soros got very rich doing this. So did the Hunt family, for a while.

Here's the other side of the story (h/t reader): Aluminum, Goldman, The Times, And BS

And, hey - what about those Saudis warehousing all that oil in the ground until prices rise?

Posted by Bird Dog at 13:34 | Comments (7) | Trackbacks (0)

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Didn't the Hunt brothers lose their shirts in the silver market? Maybe the same will happen in the aluminum market though I some how doubt it.

#1 walt moffett on 2013-07-23 15:25 (Reply)

The Hunts Brothers tried to do this. The Federal Reserved basically did a short dump on them by coordinating a release of actual silver onto the market, shorting the future contracts that they were holding on, and bankrupting them in the same time.

#2 BigFire on 2013-07-23 15:41 (Reply)

--the joke going around was that the brothers co-authored a book, "How to Make a Small Fortune"

(start with a big one, of course. Like Steve Martin's book, "How to Live Like a Millionaire", Chapter One, '"First, get a million dollars....")

#2.1 buddy larsen on 2013-07-23 19:18 (Reply)

Physically holding the product, you do take a risk the price could go the other way. Should be "to bad for you."
But the real world doesn't work this way. See the thief who sued and won for damages for falling off the roof of the building he was breaking into.
Or members of a Coop who sued (but lost) for certain contracted months. Never Mind about the months they profited from. "Our claim is that the Coop benefitted from the lower price we freely agreed to, thereby making money for the group at our expense."
I really dislike that part of the human race.

#3 Jerry on 2013-07-23 16:27 (Reply)

I saw an item on this a day or so ago & I was prepared to believe the worst, as G-Sachs was involved; their integrity is so - compromised - and they seem to pay so little in consequences for their transgressions, I am prepared to believe they're capable of about anything.

Then a ran across this at "Just One Minute", which made me think again:

http://justoneminute.typepad.com/main/2013/07/aluminum-goldman-the-times-and-bs.html

Not that I don't think G-Sachs isn't capable of weaselly manipulation, just that maybe there's less to this than immediately meets the eye.

And I am certainly sympathetic to the notion of NYT reporters not being as competent to report facts as their eminence might suggest. Goodness knows I've seen them mangle legal facts / issues when I think they're really trying to report it straight.

#4 T.K. Tortch on 2013-07-23 18:13 (Reply)

The NYT was too mild in its coverage....

Perhaps too simple minded for Maggies' esoteric readership, but this worked for me: http://money.howstuffworks.com/oil-speculation-raise-gas-price.htm
and
Just to put the commodities in human perspective:

http://www.thenation.com/article/169034/economic-crimes-congo#axzz2ZurEvq2b

Plus, this is not from the NYT: http://www.nakedcapitalism.com/2013/06/sasha-breger-how-commodities-hoarding-distorts-food-prices.html

back to my kennel now...

#5 retriever on 2013-07-23 20:02 (Reply)

The Hunt Brothers are two of my favorite Americans. They managed to lose, fair and square [at least according to the rules], around 4 Billion actual dollars. That's not the same, for me, as Buffet or Gates losing billions as a result of declining stock prices or something.

I believe they were trying to corner the soybean market, too.

Anyway, in most cases, to actually 'lose' billions requires law breaking by someone.

#6 JorgXMcKie on 2013-07-23 20:06 (Reply)

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Tuesday, July 23. 2013

Is this legal?