Maggie's FarmWe are a commune of inquiring, skeptical, politically centrist, capitalist, anglophile, traditionalist New England Yankee humans, humanoids, and animals with many interests beyond and above politics. Each of us has had a high-school education (or GED), but all had ADD so didn't pay attention very well, especially the dogs. Each one of us does "try my best to be just like I am," and none of us enjoys working for others, including for Maggie, from whom we receive neither a nickel nor a dime. Freedom from nags, cranks, government, do-gooders, control-freaks and idiots is all that we ask for. |
Our Recent Essays Behind the Front Page
Categories
QuicksearchLinks
Blog Administration |
Saturday, February 9. 2013Snowed in, without PTSDI have made the case here, in the past, that PTSD is not so much a disease or "disorder," but a normal variant in response to disturbing events. The mental health field, these days, is pathologizing everything and everybody. I have seen persistent PTSD complaints in all sorts of people, far more civilians than military. Life affects us deeply, and can shatter us, unless we are heavily armored or lacking in emotional response. I have seen them in sudden announcements to divorce, spousal death, deaths of a child, job loss, fatal car crashes, young police officers, and witnesses to the 9-11 jumpers. We Westerners live in a mostly safe world, insulated from so much of the pain, distress, and horror which were routine in past generations. An ordinary snowfall, or a loss of electric power, is now a really big deal, a tragedy. We are so safe and comfortable that we have lost the tools to cope with tough situations, scenes of horror, and painful memories. These things do, indeed, change us. Comfort and safety have made us innocent, in a way. Police and doctors deal with these things routinely, and develop thick skins, professional distance. I read this today: Government Can Do More to Treat Veterans with PTSD. The number of returning veterans afflicted with Post Traumatic Stress Disorder has reached crisis proportions. By government, they mean the VA. "Qualifying" for disability is a terrible idea. Getting into life is the best plan, whether one wants to or not. No matter what happens, it's best to buck up and get on with it. There is no treatment, no cure, for being human. There is no cure for PTSD complaints other than the old-fashioned "tincture of time." Entrepreneurs out there sell cures which are snake oil. All we Psychiatrists really have to offer these people is care, emotional support, help with substance abuse, and, if they wish, emotion-blunting medicines. There is no magic cure for life's horrors and misfortunes other than alcohol and drugs, and they tend to make things worse in the end.
Posted by Dr. Joy Bliss
in Our Essays, Psychology, and Dr. Bliss
at
19:51
| Comments (30)
| Trackbacks (0)
Trackbacks
Trackback specific URI for this entry
No Trackbacks
Comments
Display comments as
(Linear | Threaded)
Agreed. Also I think there are so may things involved that no one really knows for sure much about it. Except liberals of course who see only what they desperately want to see.
At first I was going to agree with you, Dr. Joy, but upon reflection I'm not sure I can. Not necessarily about PTSD but about...
"I have seen them in sudden announcements to divorce, spousal death, deaths of a child, job loss, fatal car crashes, young police officers, and witnesses to the 9-11 jumpers." "We Westerners live in a mostly safe world, insulated from so much of the pain, distress, and horror which were routine in past generations." There seems rather a contradiction between those two sentences. The routine of the "past generations" in the second sentence would seem to be very similar to the "sudden announcements" you reference in the first sentence. I happen to think that the issue is money. First, for journalists to have something to write about, second, third, fourth, etc. for professionals in many and varied fields to have something to study, treat, foundations to found, books to be written, lectures to be given, shoulders given for sufferers to cry on, for an appropriate fee of course. I had just the opposite response. I thought the two sentences were exactly right. We are nearly innocent.
True, terrible things continue to happen, but not nearly to the degree of the past. Hazards have been largely engineered or regulated away. Our children are innoculated against disease, and suffering has been greatly diminished. All happy improvements, but our skills in coping have diminished. Pain is pain, and pain is painful. The only thing that has changed is that intellectuals are re-framing pain as victimization. "Asteroid 2012 DA14's near impact to Earth next Friday has frightened my patient - that must be somebody's fault!" Tort law is based on a completely ficticious "right" to be free from pain for one's entire life.
Good for you, Dr. Joy - follow this up with more of your deep insights. no, tort law is based on the assumption that whoever steals from me, destroys my property, defrauds or injures me, intentionally or otherwise, is going to pay up. and if its done with intent, then the payment is going to be punitive.
the question we should be asking is why are we inflicting disturbing events on our people. this damn war in afghanistan has got to end now. The assumption being that nothing bad could possibly have resulted from not going to Afghanistan. Life is tradeoffs, including foreign policy, and we make the best guesses we can with the information at hand.
Now that I've reminded you of this you will say that of course you knew that, and didn't mean it to imply otherwise. But you clearly did. That assumption clearly underlies your thinking. As a former humanitarian aid worker diagnosed with PTSD, I sometimes wish I had stepped on that mine in south Sudan, was shot at that road block in Liberia, or wounded in that ambush in Somalia, so I would have something "real" to help explain the blackness and anxiety I often live with.
--wish i could help you. Me, i would try a light dose of ADHD medication, and let the med lock me onto whittling or piano or building a birdhouse or whatever would keep my hands busy and mind too busy to mull, until the dog leaves. But that may be horrible advice. But maybe not. If you turned the emotional disaster into art, then you beat the devil.
There is a cure for some with PTSD. If you are a veteran, family of a veteran or a civilian working with the military you can get help for free - www.Patriotoutreach.org.
There is a cure for some with PTSD. If you are a veteran, family of a veteran or a civilian working with the military you can get help for free - www.Patriotoutreach.org.
Forgot the second part - civilians can go to ww.fhu.com. Excellent.
Not often mentioned is the damage done to veterans diagnosed with PTSD. It's no wonder they often have trouble finding employment - what employer wants someone on the job who is likely to go postal? Because that's unfortunately what comes to mind based on news reports. So such a diagnosis actually inhibits vets' ability to "buck up and get on with it." Note that studies of Holocaust survivors demonstrate that those who repressed the experience and went on with life fared the best. Don't remember where I read about these, but they run contrary to lots of current thinking about trauma. As a little girl, I had waited for my daddy to come home from the war (WWII)--"he has stopped at the hospital over there-he needs some rest." Was so thrilled when the day arrived and I met my daddy for the first time. ohhh . . . and he loved me so much! Third night home I heard a noise in the middle of the night and toddled down to mommy's room(now mommy and daddy's room). I remember pushing open the door carefully because there was such horrible screaming (I had never heard anything like it before). I saw my daddy standing on the bed screaming and swinging a sharp stick around and over his head--mommy had backed into a corner on the floor and daddy had both the twins he was jumping back and forth and jabbing at the air in front of him.
A few days later we went to town--we were walking along the sidewalk when a car backfired (happened a lot more in those days). Suddenly, my daddy was gone--he was laying in the gutter as tight up against the curb as he could possibly get. Strangers helped him. This was before the day of disability pay for veterans; before the day of PTSD. You tell me what that was . . . my daddy was a sweet and gentle man who had been studying to be an Episcopal minister before the war. He had been in a German POW camp for two years. I am not saying that these reactions are not real. I am saying that they are not a disease.
There isn't a global treatment for PTSD, but there are treatments for the individual symptoms. Getting some sleep because the nightmares are gone can make a world of difference, for example. The various therapies for modifying how memories are stored are darn promising as well.
Sorry (for many reason) that I am not well informed on the science/philosophy of psychiatry. But, if these symptoms are not disease, and I can agree with you on that, then can we say they are evidence of a damaged whole? If not physically, then surely the emotional center of the being has been damaged. Your recommendation to get on with life is one that I agree with, I also agree that psychiatry has stepped way out of the appropriate boundary a long time ago. But, can we ignore this condition of returning soldiers? Many cultures including some of the ancient Greeks had ceremonies and traditional/cultural exercises that they put the warrior through upon their return to civilian life. These traditions were intended to heal the psyche. What are we doing today and what do you recommend?
I 'm posting at Bird Dog's request.
In response to : "There is no cure for PTSD complaints other than the old-fashioned "tincture of time." This is wrong. Grinker and Spiegel's pioneered treatment of acute stress disorder in soldiers of the NOrth African WWII experience. We now have decades of work on the untreated or poorly treated acute stress disorder that can lead to true PTSD in soldiers. This research has been done best in Israel and the US. Jonathan Shays has written elegaically about PTSD in Viet Nam vets (including the physiological markers for this). Arik Shalev in Jerusalem has spent decades on other physiological markers for PTSD. This posting then is misinformed and misinforming. N. S As you note, all sorts of people, civilians as well as soldiers, can suffer from the horrors and agonies that we describe as PTSD. There are various treatments that work for some people.
Compassionate, patient, faithful care over time helps. Even the much maligned mind-numbing psych drugs help if they limit the natural human tendency to self medicate when one is going thru a living hell (as you observe, booze and drugs ultimately make it worse, and they usually increase the likelihood of violence or suicide). Whatever the cause of PTSD, a person w it only goes postal after a terrible event AFTER a series of unusual and rare, aggravating events. Or at least things that don't contribute to healing. THe amazing thing is how dutiful, and suffering in silence most people with it become. THeir spouses know about their nightmares. Some unfortunate spouses know worse, and get abused. But the majority are ultimately resilient and heal. I wouldn't presume to criticize the survival or coping mechanisms of Holocaust survivors, but it does seem to me that many of them continued to suffer for the rest of their lives. Awfully. And jsut because they weren't as vocal or visible as modern people with PTSD, doesn't mean they got over it. Terrible, terrible depressions and nightmares in some of the families I knew. The Jewish Holocaust survivors did better than some our family friends who were Polish or Russian survivors of the camps. We thought that it was because society is more supportive of Jewish Holocaust survivors, and aware of their sufferings, and has not paid as much attention to those of other groups tormented during WWII . Or it might have been because our POlish and Russian friends were living in agony with their countries under Communism back then (so they had not only lost family but country as well, and yet still felt part of the countries they had left). It helps in recovery to have a place you feel you want to belong to. However, to return to people now with PTSD. It does make a huge difference who and what they return home to. And "treatment" is really only part of it. Think of the research on how bipolar and schizophrenic patients do worse in families with highly volatile families where they are badgered, nagged, yelled at. Just as people suffering from chronic mental illness tend to do better with calm, relatively stable and kind relatives who can NOT take outrageous, disappointing or scary behavior personally and who can be encouraging, set limits, and not become too enmeshed, so too with PTSD ( I know, it's hard on the families who get zero support). It's so tragic that one of the snipers killed by that shooter recently was trying to do just that: help rehabilitate a traumatized fellow vet by comradeship, friendship, normal activities that made him feel part of the human race rather than sick and maimed. Nobody wants to be labelled. By contrast, if someone comes back from a deployment to a spouse who has cheated and run up debts on their credit card, is about to lose their house,and has an unsympathetic family, an incompetent doctor, and has a hard time finding a job, they JUST might be likelier to "go postal" than someone with a faithful, frugal and loving spouse who soothes their nightmares and finds them a kind doctor who finds them a stopgap medicine to get them over the hump, and insists they come to church even if they don't feel like it, and calls their old friends to visit and take him/her out when he feels like death warmed over. This lucky person will, likely, recover with time. No man is an island. PTSD is not a disease, but a kind of soul sickness that is eased by love and understanding, that can be healed by GOd's grace, and into which the light of love can shine even when the person is still in terrible pain. All of us who have endured trauma and its aftermath know that what makes life first bearable and then worth living afterwards is that light of love and hope in the darkness. You can endure a lot as you struggle towards it. This thread is terrible and beautiful. AP my youngest years mimic yours --my dad a POW too, a B-17 pilot shot down over Germany in Feb 1944 --i know now he had a monkey on his back when i was growing up --we never were able to --well, after enough bad memories had built up --never able to be in the same room with each other, and even the same county was touch and go. It took my first kid born, a son, to get us back in touch --and i was damn near 30 years old before we were able to conduct a normal father and son relationship. Notice i said 'conduct'. Affection --ok, love --wasn't the problem --i don't know what the problem was, actually. Maybe i was just a little shithead.
A family member of mine was a crew member on a B17G shot down in July 1944 over what is now Poland. He was one of two survivors of a 9 man crew and was interned at Stalag Luft IV. He survived the "Black March" by eating bark so he wouldn't faint from hunger and get bayoneted.
He had a very hard time adjusting to family life upon return and was very hard on his kids. yep --it was as if the veteran dads were panic'd that their boys would be too soft for that totalitarian world always right there in their memory floods, and we had to shape up in a hurry, and follow orders as tho we were always ten years older than we were, because it was a life and death proposition. Meanwhile, everywhere else, and everyone else, was laughing and playing in elysian fields, and us front-boomer boys could not savvy the colliding worlds, and thus had no sympathy for the old man.
--anyway, i was trying to remember where i'd seen an article titled something like ''Yes You CAN Stop Thinking About It".
Naturally, because i was intensely interested in reading it, i forgot to save it. But google redeems. And adds a new find. http://pjmedia.com/instapundit/162314/ http://ridertiger.hubpages.com/hub/off-negative-emotions === The capricious SpamGuard, hale fellow well met only an hour ago, had by this time turned surly and mean, and forbade my hyperlinks. Dear, dear Buddy: How much we share: my daddy too was shot down over Germany from a B17, a little earlier than yours. However, my father was first generation born in America German. His parents had escaped from WWI and he had been raised to love this country so much. He originally went in up in Canada, then was able to join the Americans. He was fluent in German.
Dear, dear RETRIEVER: SPOT ON !! --heck, he may have known the guy who wrote "High Flight" --Gillespie --who followed the same path.
For that matter, he may've known dad --the fliers mostly ended up at Stalag Luft 1 in Barth, on the Baltic. I'm sure you know about http://www.merkki.com/ http://www.merkki.com/photo.htm You might can find your dad there --usually just the name and barracks --plus whatever email addresses are attached to some of the names. Sadly, mostly sons and daughters now, of the POW. A few years ago, expecting to find only his name and barracks/room #, i found that, and the entry had an asterix that led to one of the barracks resident's sons ''ancestry dot com'' upload of his dad's photos and notes. So i take as look, and there's dad, 22 or 23 yrs old, the lower left guy in the upper right pic at http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.ancestry.com/~culbert/history/military/journal/stalag_luft1/01.pdf ...he's wearing a home made MP armband (only the M showing) from the weeks between the Germans leaving and the Red Army arriving, when P-47 ace and wing leader (and POW) "Hub" Zemke had tapped dad for camp security detail. I was not too far in the future at the time of the pic, those guys moved pretty fast once the Red Army secured the airfield and US transport planes began landing and repatriating POWs. My middle daughter's husband's grandfather was an officer in the Red Army division that liberated the camp! His parents immigrated in the 90s when my son-in-law was a child. He and daughter met at Univ of Texas. Amazon hired him on graduation, and hauled him off to Seattle, where they've produced a great grandson for the hard-eyed kid in the picture. What a world, huh? My 20 years of militray service encompassed the entire Vietnam war. I knew many veterans and everyone had a different reaction to the war. I got the feeling at the time that those most affected by the war were playing out the same traits and personality quirks they had before they enlisted. Maybe not 100% but it seems to me if you are wound too tight before you go to war you come back with PTSD but to those who know you you are pretty much the same as when you went in except maybe enjoying the attentiona dn playing the game for more attention. I'm not saying PTSD doesn't exist, I am saying if you are prone to over reaction and inappropriate reaction that going to war will bring out those things in you even more.
WASHINGTON EXAMINER: Watchdog: Vets trapped in endless Veterans Affairs bureaucracy.
Posted at 7:57 am by Glenn Reynolds imbedded hyperlink @ instapundit goes to http://washingtonexaminer.com/watchdog-vets-trapped-in-endless-veterans-affairs-bureaucracy/article/2521014 Short term PTSD? Everybody gets it. Long term PTSD? Only about 20% are susceptible and only about 10% are sufficiently traumatized to get it.
Gone With the Wind 2013-02-11 11:24 is correct. It depends on what you bring to the "occasion". Severity varies. Most of the milder forms can be treated with cannabis. The heavy stuff requires opiates. And the most prevalent heavy stuff? Sexual abuse in childhood. Dr. Lonnie Shavelson did work on that in relation to heroin. == Changes in endocannabinoid levels and/or CB2 receptor expressions have been reported in almost all diseases affecting humans,[34] ranging from cardiovascular, gastrointestinal, liver, kidney, neurodegenerative, psychiatric, bone, skin, autoimmune, lung disorders to pain and cancer. The prevalence of this trend suggests that modulating CB2 receptor activity by either selective CB2 receptor agonists or inverse agonists/antagonists depending on the disease and its progression holds unique therapeutic potential for these pathologies [34] http://classicalvalues.com/2013/02/cb2/ Medical Marijuana prohibition is a crime against humanity and a violation of the religious precept - heal the sick. Let me see if I can make the link clickable
http://classicalvalues.com/2013/02/cb2/ Medical Marijuana prohibition is a crime against humanity and a violation of the religious precept - heal the sick. And for those wanting to do more work on the subject:
"Amygdala PTSD" and "Hippocampus PTSD" I think I got the spelling right. Also "Brain scan PTSD" It IS a medical condition. I appears that you favor legalization of pot and want to create a medical reason. I live in one of those states that legalized pot for medical reasons and it is the most abused system ever invented. It is estimated that about 1% of those with micical pot crads have any legitimate medical reason. On the other hand the my libertarian leaning makes me think that the government has no right to tell an adult what he can smoke or consume. I would be OK with decriminalizing pot for adults providing we also agreed to make addicts responsible for their actions while high. I do think that parents should have more support in their efforts to protect their children from drugs. Without these changes to counter the problems drugs cause I think any easing of drug laws will be a disaster.
|