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Thursday, October 11. 2012

Rude Biden Turns Off Many Independents

Quick reaction around the networks and websites: Both Biden and Ryan scored some good points. Biden's sneers and constant interruptions were a turn-off, disrespectful in the extreme, to those who value courtesy in personal communications. The CNN tracking of men and women Independents throughout the debate found women favoring Ryan over Biden. That's a reversal from the past leaning of women toward Obama (now, Obama and Romney are about even in the polls with women). Biden's condescending attitude came through as consistent with Obama's. That's a negative for those tired of being talked down to by those whose promises and self-regard are hollow.


Biden may have encouraged his base by his boorishness, and Ryan may have not met his base's expectations of being tougher on Biden's assertions -- even when wrong as to facts. But, for many Independents the comparison comes down to Ryan's civility Vs Biden's rudeness. That's an important atmospheric. -- See the Twitter negative reactions to Biden's rudeness from reporters across the political spectrum. -- Allahpundit has a wrap-up headline quip: "Angry old man yells at Paul Ryan for 90 minutes". -- CNN instapoll gives the nod to Ryan.


Thanks for InstaPundit link. This Comment from an InstaPundit reader on target: “The Joker vs. Robin.”


Image stolen from PowerLine. Jackass split screen:



My prediction: Biden's rudeness and jokes about him will predominate conversations, and maybe even break through to legacy media reporting, over the coming days.


Other instapolls, and respected poll watcher Michael Barone's comment:



The instant polls: CNBC had it Ryan 56%-36%, CBS Biden 50%-31%, CNN Ryan 48%-44%, AP Ryan 51%-43%. Not nearly as one-sided as the instant responses to the first presidential debate in Denver. My sense: Biden pumped up partisan Democrats, but failed to win over the voters who are taking a serious look at Romney at a point when he is up in national polls.


Posted by Bruce Kesler at 22:41 | Comments (19) | Trackbacks (4)

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Watching Biden I thought to myself that if he were a neighbor or co-worker with that attitude, I would avoid him. I plan to do the same on election day.
#1 DMW on 2012-10-11 23:04 (Reply)
Charles Krauthammer pegged it. Biden killed on radio but didn't come off well on television.

Ryan did well. I flipped back over to see Biden and the moderator yelling at Ryan. And at one point about midway, the moderator goes, this is another math question. Ryan brought the math, Biden brought the spitballs.
#2 JKB on 2012-10-11 23:40 (Reply)
I would beg to differ re Biden on radio.

I listened mostly, not watched, with my husband in front of the tv and me in the other room. Early on, I thought Biden's interjection by exclaiming "malarkey" was very rude. Biden's sniggering came in loud and clear, and it was very disrespectful. I can hear Ryan calmly explaining his position, and Biden incessantly interrupting. Then Raddatz got in the act and I was getting more agitated as they tag-teamed Ryan.

My husband walked out and turned off the tv after 20 minutes because he can't stand it anymore. I went to the tv room to continue listening to the debate, and was horrified to actually see Biden's mugging and eyerolling.

I can't explain it, but I was really really angry. It's very rare for me to get emotional about these things (I'm an engineer, ferchrissakes, and tend to be pretty logical about things), but at that point I absolutely loathed Biden. It might be because Ryan and I are about the same age, and I was watching someone from the generation that screwed things up not giving my generation a chance to make our case. Maybe it's the mommy instinct that made me want to swat this child (Biden) for mouthing off and being disrespectful to someone who was trying to behave like a gentleman towards him.

Maybe it was just the incongruity of watching the vice president of the United States behaving like an absolute idiot.

Either way, it was a train wreck. I really was furious. Our country is facing a crisis, and this idiot behaved the way he did, on tv, in front of millions. I wanted to hear what the two parties had to say, and instead I was subjected to sophomoric debating tactics by an insufferable blowhard and a condescending jerk.

It was a disgraceful performance. I always regarded Biden as sort of a gaffe-prone but harmless gentleman politician that is easily tolerable. Now I can't wait to vote him and his boss out in four weeks.
#2.1 Anna on 2012-10-12 20:51 (Reply)
Yep, no doubt about it - Biden was rude! That will only help him with his base.
#3 Charles on 2012-10-11 23:51 (Reply)
Biden reminded me of many garrulous, bullying drunks I've observed. Who get their way by interrupting and insulting more polite rivals. Street fighter. A deeply unpleasant person. When he smirks, he doesn't look all there.

By contrast, Ryan was sincere, courteous, witty, and (to this married-but-not-dead female) CUTE! Obama is ugly, and the VP and Romney are so old. Ryan is young and energetic--far more appealing to women than the old men or the Great Reader. Okay, I'm being frivolous becaus this is such a sickening election.
#4 Retriever on 2012-10-11 23:52 (Reply)
Biden tonight in five words: bull in a china shop.

Ryan: That nice young man at H&R Block who got you a $3k tax refund this year.

Advantage: Ryan.
#5 MarkJ on 2012-10-12 00:06 (Reply)
Joe Biden did a brilliant job by effectively personifying the symbol of the Democratic Party... The jackass.
#5.1 HTS on 2012-10-14 12:08 (Reply)
Congressman Ryan is Jimmy Stewart in Mr. Smith Goes to Washington –before the third act, of course. Steady, aware, bemused, immune to baiting, relaxed and calm, clear and confident, never over-trying, always in the flow. A serious man, and a serious asset for the decent folk of the world.

Biden otoh, is as bidden, mobster, mouthpiece, mud-slinger, moron, and man-servant of Mephistopheles wanna-be.

Stark sharp chiarascuro under the awful lime midnight streetlamp, where we shoot craps.

Emily Dickenson foresaw these debates:

The Lightning is a yellow Fork
From Tables in the sky
By inadvertent fingers dropt
The awful Cutlery

Of mansions never quite disclosed
And never quite concealed
The Apparatus of the Dark
To ignorance revealed.
#6 buddy larsen on 2012-10-12 00:46 (Reply)
Joe went off on the questioner and Ryan was sitting there like was the questioner and Joe yelling at her cause he didn't like question he kept looking at her and not Ryan it was like he was debating her and and not Ryan
#6.1 John Christopher Ulanowski (Link) on 2012-10-12 01:45 (Reply)
My daughter and her husband came into the room while the debate was going on, took one look at Biden smirking and wanted to hit him. They had never really seen the VP on TV before then, and were very turned off by his performance.
#7 John Scotus (Link) on 2012-10-12 05:49 (Reply)
Halfway into the debate Biden's endless smirking and rudeness became so undbearable i went to the bedroom TV and watched an educational program...now I'm reading that Obama thinks Joe did a great job...no suprise here!
#7.1 Diane on 2012-10-12 06:28 (Reply)
Already Morning Joe is mocking Biden's behavior.
#8 BD on 2012-10-12 07:17 (Reply)
Fwiw, the wife, who is very apolitical (as I no longer have the luxury of being), actually watched the debate. She said Biden was "obnoxious, rude, he kept interrupting". "He had no sense of decorum". "It wasn't a debate; it was like an angry drunk arguing with someone".

She said she definitely wouldn't want someone like that sitting as President.

I don't imagine the debate really swayed many people, but I really don't see how it could have helped Obama.
#9 LWS on 2012-10-12 08:54 (Reply)
"Angry drunk" is ringing a lot of bells. I've seen that description everywhere I've gone today.
#9.1 Texan99 (Link) on 2012-10-12 16:37 (Reply)
WHAT RYAN SHOULD HAVE SAID:

"Joe, you have shown me as much respect tonight as you've shown to the American People. During the Healthcare Debate you wouldn't let them talk either. As a matter of fact, Barack Obama himself told them to 'Get in the back of the bus'."
#10 Bill Mitchell on 2012-10-12 09:26 (Reply)
THINK ABOUT THIS:

Since Romney soundly defeated Obama, where has all of the movement in the polls come from?

Correct. Women.

Tonight, Joe Biden reminded the, of the arrogant misogynistic husband or boyfriend in their lives who refuses to listen and discount their opinions. That is a deep negative emotional connection.

It honestly doesn't matter what words were spoke. THAT is the impression that will be left behind.
#11 Bill Mitchell on 2012-10-12 09:30 (Reply)
Mark Steyn wrote a short blub entitled "Laughing All the Way to the Bank Collapse".

And regarding your comment #10, the Romney campaign, last night, turned out an ad saying just that. If you sign up to Mitt Romney on Facebook, they send you updates.
#11.1 TMay on 2012-10-12 14:12 (Reply)
I think Bidens rudeness cost him some among independents and women, but I think he did what he needed to do, fire up the dem base with a big right after obamas sleepwalker performance last week. I think ryan marginally won the debate on style, but I think in actual effect it was a draw, because both of them did what they needed to do. Biden needed to fire up his base with some fight, Ryan needed to look responsible and ready to be president, both succeeded.
#12 richard40 on 2012-10-12 10:53 (Reply)
People make fun of him, but Biden is the Veep for a reason. He's good at going on TV and playing that guy from Scranton who's fighting for the poor and middle class and is tough on foreign policy. It's pretty impressive how well he pulls that off given that he's basically just another Capital Hill pol who reports to the finance companies.

The problem for him is that his administration has a record he can't defend, so on Libya and the economy, so all he can do is bluster and pretend the other guy doesn't know what he's talking about.

But think about his answer on medicare - it was who do you trust. He didn't even try to refute Ryan on facts, it was the "hey c'mon, you know me" argument. We're in the process of getting America to wake up to the fact that the guy who says he's fighting for you is actually picking your pocket.

It does go against many people's preconceived notions about Democrats and Republicans so this argument will be effective for a while on many people, although less so over time until its just the die hard supporters. Don't know if we'll get there by election day though - hope so.
#13 The Arcadian on 2012-10-12 11:22 (Reply)

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