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Sunday, August 12. 2012"There is not a single Obama voter anywhere in the land who believes that another four years of him will make this country better."
From Knish's The Most Divisive Campaign in American History
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He is wrong about this,
The coalition that he committed to last year is a coalition of those who are unhappy with America, not in the last four years, but in the last two-hundred years. Its core is composed of groups that fear democracy and distrust the will of the people. There is no optimism here, but a deeply rooted pessimism about human nature and the country as a whole. It is the Democratic Party's coalition against democracy. The Democrats love democracy, they are all about mob rule. It is the individual they fear. Republicans and Conservatives need to get clear about this, this country was never intended to be a democracy, Woodrow Wilson started that nonsense, most of the founders loathed democracy. The Constitution was designed to protect the sovereign rights of the individual against democracatic mobs. The Democrats are against democracy! Democrats are bad.
The Democrats are for democracy! Democrats are bad. When diametrically opposing views lead to the same conclusion, it implies that the views are being used to service the conclusion rather than acting as the basis for it. No, what it really means is that the first formulation was improperly worded, as B. Moe noted. The Democrats hate the idea of a constitutional republic, which is what the founders envisioned as a way of limiting government overreach and protecting individual liberty. The Democrats know that they can best expand and hold on to power through dishonest demagoguery and through convincing different coalitions that they need to see themselves in terms of collectives and vote accordingly.
Kurt: No, what it really means is that the first formulation was improperly worded, as B. Moe noted.
What Moe said was that it was wrong. Kurt: The Democrats hate the idea of a constitutional republic, which is what the founders envisioned as a way of limiting government overreach and protecting individual liberty. What evidence do you have that Democrats, a third of the American public, hate the idea of constitutional government? Kurt: The Democrats know that they can best expand and hold on to power through dishonest demagoguery and through convincing different coalitions that they need to see themselves in terms of collectives and vote accordingly. Whether that fairly represents the Democratic Party or not, those methods are within the constitutional framework. Indeed, those basic liberties, "freedom of speech" and "the right of the people peaceably to assemble", are enshrined in the First Amendment. I said the idea of a "constitutional republic," not the idea of "constitutional government." My evidence for that is simply the sort of jurists they choose and endorse for the Supreme Court, people who like to talk about a "living constitution," who think there is value in citing foreign precedent for domestic legal cases, and who go abroad and talk about how outdated and poorly conceived our constitution is. In other words, they don't like the constitution we've got and would prefer to read it and interpret it in their image.
#1.2.1.1.1
Kurt
on
2012-08-13 13:20
(Reply)
Kurt: I said the idea of a "constitutional republic," not the idea of "constitutional government."
That is correct, however, all your points below refer only to the constitutional framework, not the republican nature of the constitution. Kurt: My evidence for that is simply the sort of jurists they choose and endorse for the Supreme Court, people who like to talk about a "living constitution," Do you think that being secure from the government in your "papers" doesn't include email? Or do you read the word papers in its antique sense. Kurt: who think there is value in citing foreign precedent for domestic legal cases, As the U.S. inherited common law, those precedents do matter. Also, courts can refer to reasoning by foreign courts without being bound by that reasoning, as opposed to being influenced the power of the reasoning. If a judge found reasoning about a case that made sense within U.S. law, they not only should use that reasoning, but cite it. This is especially important in cases that involve international treaties. Kurt: and who go abroad and talk about how outdated and poorly conceived our constitution is. In other words, they don't like the constitution we've got and would prefer to read it and interpret it in their image. It is dated. That's why the constitution has been amended. Courts still have to apply the current constitution, of course.
#1.2.1.1.1.1
Zachriel
on
2012-08-13 14:19
(Reply)
Zachriel wrote: That is correct, however, all your points below refer only to the constitutional framework, not the republican nature of the constitution.
Well, if you'd like an example of how the Democrats subvert the republican nature of the constitution, one need look no further than the current administration's war on voter ID laws at the same time it declares that it will not enforce existing immigration laws and it carves out a new residence status for illegal immigrants under the age of 30. And that is but one example. Then there is the Fast and Furious scandal and the lying to congress and stonewalling investigation into the matter by suddenly declaring executive privilege. Or there is the matter of the "recess appointments" when the senate wasn't actually in recess. And then there is the whole matter of individuals who critique the president or who donate to his political opponents suddenly being subject to IRS audits. Or how about the manner in which the Democrat-controlled senate continually shirks its responsibility to pass a budget, as it has done for more than three years now. Zachriel wrote: Do you think that being secure from the government in your "papers" doesn't include email? Or do you read the word papers in its antique sense. This is a minor example which you no doubt chose because it is within the realm of what most people would accept as a "reasonable" interpretation. What I was referring to, however, was the invention of whole areas of constitutional interpretation out of thin air because some judge thought he or she detected something in the "emanations" of a "penumbra." Zachriel wrote: As the U.S. inherited common law, those precedents do matter. Also, courts can refer to reasoning by foreign courts without being bound by that reasoning, as opposed to being influenced the power of the reasoning. If a judge found reasoning about a case that made sense within U.S. law, they not only should use that reasoning, but cite it. This is especially important in cases that involve international treaties. Once again you are pettifogging by referring first to "inherited common law" precedent, and then to international treaties. What I was referring to was the practice that we have seen on occasion in recent years of judges who find rationales for their decisions in domestic (i.e. not international) cases in sources such as UN declarations and foreign laws. Below is an article referring to several such controversial cases. http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/4506232/ns/politics-tom_curry/t/flap-over-foreign-matter-supreme-court/#.UClfYU1lRWY Finally, with regard to your last point, the proper way to update the constitution is through amendment, which requires meeting a significant threshold for approval; it is not through judicial fiat simply because justices Breyer, Ginsburg or Kagan decide they have "discovered" something new in the "living" constitution.
#1.2.1.1.1.1.1
Kurt
on
2012-08-13 16:20
(Reply)
Kurt: Well, if you'd like an example of how the Democrats subvert the republican nature of the constitution, one need look no further than the current administration's war on voter ID laws at the same time it declares that it will not enforce existing immigration laws and it carves out a new residence status for illegal immigrants under the age of 30.
Voter ID laws are seen as a mechanism to reduce legal voter turnout on the pretext of preventing virtually non-existent in-person voter fraud. Enforcing immigration law is an executive prerogative, and if they are violating statute, they can be taken to court. Kurt: Then there is the Fast and Furious scandal and the lying to congress and stonewalling investigation into the matter by suddenly declaring executive privilege. Executive privilege is a constitutional privilege having to do with separation of powers. Again, if it is being invoked incorrectly, they can be taken to court. Kurt: And then there is the whole matter of individuals who critique the president or who donate to his political opponents suddenly being subject to IRS audits. That would be an abuse of power, but it is unlikely that could occur, especially without leaks. Kurt: This is a minor example which you no doubt chose because it is within the realm of what most people would accept as a "reasonable" interpretation. That's right. It illustrates the point. Kurt: What I was referring to, however, was the invention of whole areas of constitutional interpretation out of thin air because some judge thought he or she detected something in the "emanations" of a "penumbra." That decision concerns the right to privacy. Many people think the government forcing women to carry babies against their wishes exceeds their legitimate powers. Kurt: What I was referring to was the practice that we have seen on occasion in recent years of judges who find rationales for their decisions in domestic (i.e. not international) cases in sources such as UN declarations and foreign laws. Below is an article referring to several such controversial cases. http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/4506232/ns/politics-tom_curry/t/flap-over-foreign-matter-supreme-court/#.UClfYU1lRWY Let's look at the three examples. QUOTE: Breyer: A growing number of courts outside the United States … have held that lengthy delay in administering a lawful death penalty renders ultimate execution inhuman, degrading, or unusually cruel... Obviously this foreign authority does not bind us. After all, we are interpreting a “Constitution for the United States of America. So, the decision is based on the U.S. Constitution, not foreign authority. QUOTE: Stevens: within the world community, the imposition of the death penalty for crimes committed by mentally retarded offenders is overwhelmingly disapproved ... Although these factors are by no means dispositive ... Not dispositive. QUOTE: Kennedy: The sweeping references by Chief Justice Burger to the history of Western civilization and to Judeo-Christian moral and ethical standards did not take account of other authorities pointing in an opposite direction. A committee advising the British Parliament recommended in 1957 repeal of laws punishing homosexual conduct. So, apparently it's okay to base decisions on the history of Western civilization and Judeo-Christian moral and ethical standards. In any case, if the original law was upheld by reference to standards outside the constitution, then clearly arguing against those standards might make reference to standards outside the constitution. The U.S. does not live in a vacuum, and certainly, Americans hope that their highest legal reasoning might influence others. There's no reason why they can't learn from others too. Kurt: Finally, with regard to your last point, the proper way to update the constitution is through amendment, Yes, but that wasn't the point, which concerned a justice noting that the U.S. Constitution was somewhat dated. You still have an electoral college, as if people can't vote directly because it takes weeks to travel over dirt roads on horseback.
#1.2.1.1.1.1.1.1
Zachriel
on
2012-08-13 19:30
(Reply)
You can keep rambling on, but your rationalizations for the behavior of the Democrats and their enablers on the courts aren't convincing me, nor, I imagine, anyone else. In the age of Obama, Democrat politicians are pretty much focused on the expansion of government at all levels with an aim towards insuring their continued grip on power. They seek to foster dependence on government, and they promote collective identity as a way of diminishing the appeal of individualism and discouraging dissent. At the same time, they do what they can to promote voter fraud.
#1.2.1.1.1.1.1.1.1
Kurt
on
2012-08-13 23:09
(Reply)
My Twitter feed is full of people who clearly still believe that. Or who are so full of blind hatred for the big R they'll still go out and vote for the idiot again.
Correct. There was a lot of noise first time around about how inspired people were by Obama, and now there are some encouraging signs that his supporters are more disillusioned this time around. But the foundation of the Democratic vote is hatred for the Others. All the other statements, about the !% and the moral fabric of society, the chest-pounding about the poor and equality, the chin-stroking and measured tones at NPR about crises in the Soul of America - are all rationalisations. they have no real value, except as masturbatory fantasies.
Never underestimate the people who are willing to double-down on stupidity.
Obama: He can't add or multiply, but he's a whiz at subtracting and dividing.
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