We are a commune of inquiring, skeptical, politically centrist, capitalist, anglophile, traditionalist New England Yankee humans, humanoids, and animals with many interests beyond and above politics. Each of us has had a high-school education (or GED), but all had ADD so didn't pay attention very well, especially the dogs. Each one of us does "try my best to be just like I am," and none of us enjoys working for others, including for Maggie, from whom we receive neither a nickel nor a dime. Freedom from nags, cranks, government, do-gooders, control-freaks and idiots is all that we ask for.
Our Recent Essays Behind the Front Page
Monday, May 2. 2011
President Obama takes over all the TV networks and other media to tell us that Osama bin Laden is confirmed dead. Osama bin Laden is reported to have been in a mansion outside Islamabad, the capital of Pakistan.
Yaaay! And, what difference did it make when we captured Saddam Hussein? The evil had metastasized. And, Hussein was hiding in a hole in the ground.
In this case, as if any more evidence is needed, the evil metastasized into Pakistan's highest levels. -- Why the US Acted Alone
The credit is owed to the perseverence and dedication of those in our extraordinary intel and military in the region. -- And, getmo' Gitmo, or wherever they're being held, some of the intel came from detainees.
The question is whether President Obama has the intestinal fortitude and focus to follow through, and deserve credit. The Pakistan government has loudly complained about US actions, but has been playing both sides, including some help to the US behind the scenes. The double-play must end and not be tolerated, and the sanctuary of Taliban in Pakistan's border with Afghanistan be more heavily penetrated by US and Afghan forces. The Pakistan sanctuary is key to the prolongation of the war in Afghanistan. Pakistani ISI intelligence has been critical to the Taliban's emergence from out of the mujahideen that fought the Soviet Union, and often shelters its deemed asset.
Al Quaeda is much diminished, but its tentacles and their plans for terrorism in the West continues. Western security forces are on alert. Islamabad should be on alert for far less tolerance from the West.
Instead, there's speculation that Pakistan offered up bin Laden -- a figurehead, anymore -- as a sweetener to speed US withdrawal from Afghanistan. (Charles Krauthammer just speculated similarly, on Fox, that President Obama may well use OBL's death as an opportunity to decare victory and withdraw.)-- Actually, administration officials say the US did not tell Pakistan before going in. -- I'm purely guessing that's cover for Pakistan's government to so many Pakistanis who supported bin Laden. -- Hope: Pakistan better get hopping in the NW provinces; Reality: Don't hold breath. -- Confusion about Pakistan. -- Afghanistan's Karzai points finger, at US and Pakistan.
President Obama takes credit, saying he directed our CIA to make the taking or death of Osama bin Laden our priority. That had been a priority before his presidency. Typical Obama. Followed by President Obama reminding us that we are not at war with Islam but with mass murderers. Those mass murderers hide among a sea of many Moslems who smile at the murders.
American power, not words, impress.
A suggestion: embalm Osama bin Laden, no cosmetics, and display -- next to a urinal -- at the memorial at the World Trade Center. -- Muslim "scholars" say burial at sea only benefits the fish. I say, flushing his ashes is another way to the sea. I feel sorry for the fishes.
Update: More operational details. The guy was truly hiding in plain sight, next door to a police station.
Killing brings anger and relief in Arab world
Osama's NYT obit
Potemra: Good work, Mr. President and America
Tracked: May 02, 00:05
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I don't care for President Obama, but I think it was a good speech. The only thing I take exception to is that bit about his prioritizing getting Bin Laden as if it wasn't a priority under President Bush.
"I think it was a good speech"
Yes, and I repeat: "American power, not words, impress."
here is how Obama feels right now.
I agree it was a pretty good statement by Obama and for once he looked straight ahead into the camera instead of swiveling his head from side to side to read from his teleprompters. As for his comments on Islam, maybe they were intended to forestall the usual riots in Muslim countries at the announcement of bin Laden's death. My congratulations to the brave team that accomplished this task. I hope we will get more details about the operation itself.
Both George Bush and Bill Clinton have issued statements of congratulations. Jimmy Carter has not been heard from yet. I think he has probably gone into mourning.
It just galls your wingnut ass that it happened on Obama's watch, doesn't it? You people are pathetic!
Yes, but you're the loser reading the 'pathetic' article all the way through on the 'pathetic' site, right?
I'd suggest this reveals a lot more about you than us.
Only in the sense that looking at monkeys says something about the people at the zoo.
I'm just sorry to hear that Obama had his 67th round of golf since in office interrupted with the news of Obama and Biden's Osama bin Laden's death. Couldn't those CIA guys have been a little more considerate with their timing?
Nope.... just happy we got him! Obama is OUR president, and unlike many in the left I'm still proud when the president does something right. I disagree with him on just about everything but respect the man for his achievements and the office.
That said, we all know that IF this were Bush we would be seeing headlines, blogs, etc claiming WAG THE DOG: WORLD News: Osama bin Laden Is Dead. US forces shot and killed the al-Qaida leader in Pakistan. Did Obama launch attack to lift his sagging polls?
Obama Passed Up Earlier Opportunity To Get Bin Laden
Only a few details released so far about how the US found bin Laden's hideout. Apparently he was traced through the movements of a trusted courier that he always used. I think this is just a cover. What really nailed him was all those geolocation tags that bin Laden's new iPad has been sending back to the Mother Ship at Apple Headquarters.
I want pictures. And not of "Obama bin Laden" or "BushHitler". But just pictures of dead Osama vindicating the fact that the increasing power we’re giving to our government to spy on everybody else has been worth it.
According to this article:
A senior administration official is ensuring that bin Laden's corpse is being "handled in accordance with Islamic practice and tradition. It's something we take seriously and therefore it's being handled in an appropriate manner."
Buried at sea? That's insane, now we'll never really know. Saddam had lots of body doubles, this is absolutely crazy that we don't have the body.
It has to be a false rumor, even Obama wouldn't be that stupid.
There were too many "I's" in that speech to make it a good speech.
Obama killed Osama in less than 2 years. Bush failed after 8 years.
Further proof that high schoolers shouldn't be allowed to comment on blog sites.
I think Bush was also after Bin Laden. His capture was the result of years of intelligence work.
I'm with Commander Clopfelter. I too want pictures and a copy of the death certificate. I'm a deather not a birther.
The actionable intel that lead to the death of UBL was generated years before Obama came into office through the waterboarding of KSM. Congratulations on up to Obama and back to GWB for getting this one done. Meanwhile, Obama's wrecking of our nation continues apace.
Man, I can smell the sour grapes from here.
You guys are pathetic. Be happy for just one day. It's good news.
Sorry..but what got him was everything the leftie wingnuts would rather have had NOT happen..staring with Bust getting the Rosie O'Donnell with back hair" guy in Pakistan..the the swirly he was given that led to another guest at Hotel 'Mo and the information gotten from HIS swirly..followed by the military training and technology that you would like cut.
The lefites would have rather taken the approach of "Reaching out our hand and maybe they'll unclench their fists"..and never have gone into Pakistan in the first place in favor of giving lawyers to anyone captured and reading them Miranda..etc.
This is a blow to the leftie progressives. All of their hoped for policies would have failed.
I hope his death certificate doesn't take as long to get as Obama's birth certificate.
I suspect that, if we had a Republican president, the media would be spinning this story as "largely symbolic at this point."
No sour grapes here. (Neither they, nor their derivatives, last long enough around here to turn sour. But I digress.)
I am willing to admit that I am ticked off that this happened on Obama's watch. (Not that it happened at all, mind you. Osama got what he deserved, and I am glad.)
I am mad because Obama is going to get credit for something he was dragged kicking and screaming into, namely the Bush Doctrine, and including Guantanamo and the Iraq and Afghanistan wars.
Do we need reminding that Clinton "loathed the military," and did nothing to persue Osama? Or that Obama was swept into power largely on an anti-war tide, and he is arguably more anti-American and pro-Muslim than any other president ever?
Bush was the one who manned up. Period. And our military and special forces, of course. If it wasn't for him and them, this never would have happened. Obama had no choice but to ride the wave.
Screw Obama. He deserves only a little credit, but will get and seek much, much more.
I'm with you, Big_Al on this magnificent achievement. "Bush was the one who manned up. Period." And our blessed Navy SEALs pulled off another splendid mission. Onlookers like Mr. Dithers should have enough inner decency to stand back and give credit where it is due. But then, modesty is almost always missing in narcissists.
"I've never wished a man dead, but I have read some obituaries with great pleasure." - Mark Twain.
Love it, Pajak. I too struggle with rejoicing over death. Leave it to Mark Twain to bring it into perspective.
SEND IN THE BEAUTIFUL GALS ! Those guys earned a night of glorious feminine entertainment, and "We the People" should pick up the damn tab !
BD: you get to pick out the scotch and cigars !
You know the situation is serious when "I'm not a nation builder" and "hope and change" wind up doing pretty much the same thing.
It took big government-coordinated effort to accomplish this.
Ding Dong! Osama's dead. Which Osama? The Wicked Osama!
Ding Dong! Osama bin Laden's dead.
Wake up - sleepy head, rub your eyes, get out of bed.
Wake up, we shot him in the head. He's gone where the goblins go,
Below - below - below. Yo-ho, let's open up and sing and ring the bells out.
Ding Dong' the merry-oh, sing it high, sing it low.
Let them know
Osama bi Laden's dead!
As President in the D.C. City, In the County of the U.S.A., I welcome you most regally.
But we've got to verify it legally, to see
Is morally, ethic'lly
Undeniably and reliably Dead
As Doctor, I must aver, I thoroughly examined him.
And he's not only merely dead, he's really most sincerely dead.
Then this is a day of Independence For all the Commenters and their descendants
Yes, let the joyous news be spread The wicked Old Osama at last is dead!
We represent the lollipop guild.
"I'm not going to go there and here's why, because Pakistan is a sovereign nation. I think the Pakistanis would want bin Laden out of their hair and out of their country and it's causing great difficulties in Pakistan itself." –J. McCain
Would McCain have reneged on this had he won?
hmmmm--buried at sea--another ecologically sound and systemic action. I don't particularly care for shark meat, but then again . . .
"A suggestion: embalm Osama bin Laden, no cosmetics, and display -- next to a urinal -- at the memorial at the World Trade Center."
No, I think that what they did was best. If we'd kept the body there'd be all this nonsense about disrespect for Islamic traditions. But more importantly, we'd create a spot for demonstations, memorial, etc. Dump him at sea and there's no focal point for any of that.
Few random thoughts on the raid that led to UBL's demise:
1. How did the SEALS get inside the high walls of the compound? If the copters landed in the big walled-in area next to the house, there still were several high walls with barbed wire to penetrate or surmount.
2. Will the Left now shut its yap about secret prisons, rendition of terrorists, and enhanced interrogation? Kinda doubt it since hypocrisy is their stock in trade.
3. Will John McCain shut his yap about this, about Libya, and just about everything else? No one really cares what you have to say anymore, John. Go home to Arizona and shut up. No one's listening to you.
4. So UBL's burial at sea was haram? Who cares? Are there 72 virgins attending on UBL now? Not where he's going....
5. Second thoughts on Obama's statement last night: I disagree with some of what Mark Steyn wrote today, but I agree that it would have been more dramatic and presidential had the text been shorter and more direct to the point. But BHO loves the sound of his voice and the reflection he sees in the mirror every morning. So be it. At least he had the cajones to authorize this mission without consulting the army of lawyers that gets to review everything the military does these days. Presumably the WH shut those guys out of the operational planning from the very beginning. Good for Obama. Even if the mission had failed, I would still have supported his decision. It was the right call.
This charade orchestrated by el presidente and his mob renews the oft asked question how do yall KNOW when yall have caught a fish?
Gullibility of Yankees outstretches itself once again.
How do yall know if OBama and administration is lying cheating scumbags he and they are telling gospel truth on this.
Obama camp has less credibility with every accolade by yall,
dumb and dumber.
So Leag, I've been waiting to spring this little story on you...
About a week ago, I had a dream. In the dream I was reading Maggie's Farm, and saw a comment from you. Apparently you hadn't posted for awhile because I responded something like, "Hey, Leag, where have you been? Long time no see!"
Your response was, "Yall just had to look at the stars in the firmament to see me."
I swear that was the dream. I hope it is true. And I think I need mental counselling. "Paging Dr. Joy, paging Dr. Joy..."
Yall a hoot, Big___Al!
Make a wish 'for star disappears for time, again.
I recall watching telecast of Obama declaring war on USA.
Outside of that he didn't seem to be half as stupid as Obama.
Fella down the hall let me know of a killing involvin' Obama.
But then he said "No, i mean Osama!!!' like he was in first name relationship with the grease spot.
Me first react was "Sure and yo mama didn't sit on yo head."
But what the hay joseph was from East LA.
Did yall know LA means NO.
I had to humor his certainty based on the fact that el presidente said it were so.
So, LA, si.
Yeah, the stars may fall from the sky, soon... hopefully not yours and mine though, nor any of our brethren.
On a side note, the baseball team "The Los Angeles Angels," if you actually translate it is: "The The Angels Angels."
Does anyone else make the possible connection between the killing of bin Laden and the timing of the release of Obama's birth certificate that I do? If people---and here I mean normal rational people rather than the birthers---still retained some doubt about whether Obama was born in Honolulu when this raid came down, would they be inclined to believe or disbelieve the President's announcement that UBL had been killed and his body dumped at sea? At the time he released a copy of his official Hawaii birth certificate, the President knew this mission was imminent. Perhaps he decided to clear the decks, establish his credibility, and prepare for what he knew was coming. I cannot think of any other reason why the President gave in and made his birth certificate public at this time since he could have played out his game with the birthers for quite a while longer. Donald Trump may want to take credit for forcing the issue, but I'm now inclined to think the real reason Obama did it has now been revealed.
By now everybody's seen that Situation Room photo where they're watching the raid in real time. They can't release the whole video, for obvious reasons.
But why can't we just get the little bit where Obama get's his eye/brains blown out?
Oh crap. Did I just say "Obama"? You know what I mean, and can change that Osama to avoid heat from the Secret Service.
A sincere query from a devoted and decidedly agreed Maggie's Farm reader...
My facebook wall has, like anyone's, been chock full o' quotes in reaction to OBL's death. Most of these have been overwhelmingly supportive of our VICTORY, but many friends have also posted the following MLK, Jr quote:
"I mourn the loss of thousands of precious lives, but I will not rejoice in the death of one, not even an enemy. Returning hate for hate multiplies hate, adding deeper darkness to a night already devoid of stars. Darkness cannot drive out darkness: only light can do that. Hate cannot drive out hate: only love can do that."
I am conflicted when it comes to the morals/ethics/religious parameters surrounding this recent event. My gut tells me to rejoice in the corporeal abolishment of this 21st century Hitler (and God knows I am happy as hell), but my spiritual being doesn't know what to do with it. How does one settle these inherently contradictory feelings? (...and how to come back at the facebook 'friends' who clearly think they are above this whole 'killing thing'?)
Simple: To not eliminate, if able to, the ability of someone who would kill others is to be complicit in that additional killing.
It is a question whether OBL could have been captured or if the orders were to kill him.
If captured, he would have been a rallying cry for others to kill. And, you know it would have been dragged out for a long time. Dead, he's an object lesson that may demoralize some potential terrorists.
You don't hear anyone saying let's do it for Saddam, do you?
If you feel conflicted because you cannot yet accept the spiritual truth of MLK's quote, then perhaps console yourself with the Old Testament, which is much more "results oriented". Indeed, I would have felt much better had the SEALS 6 team smote UBL with the jawbone of an ass. That kind of appeals to me.